Nov/Dec 2013 Fleet Service Discussion

[blue collar]

It is every worker/member to work safe and follow the rules.
 
Do you violate the MPP and/or deviate from a job card or procedure to fix a plane?
 
I know when I was told to do something that violated company rules, regulations or safety procedures I refused, and always got a rep, as I needed a witness.
 
Everyone is trained and made aware of the rules, it is personal responsibility to work by the established rules and regulations or  policies.
 
Guess you dont know about the two mechanics that the IAM spent over $100,000 and got them their jobs back when terminated for allegedly violating company policy on fixing a plane.
 

You completely missed my point, which is that if they don't feel that they have support, they're not going to 'stick out their neck'. I agree it's really not taking a risk to work safe, but do you think having their union brothers/sisters and representatives call them cowards and berate them is the way to get them to change?

As far as my work, yeah I follow the mpp, but I won't lie and say I follow it to a 't' 100% of the time. Have I used a beltloader instead of a lift? Yep. Did you always use a guideman while backing the lav truck up to the plane?

I was aware of the IAM helping those two guys in PIT and that's good, that's what we all pay dues for. Those two were getting railroaded by the FAA and the company, and I'm glad it worked out for them.

 

[700UW]

The AGC for PHX ramp has posted on this thread and offered to help and meet with anyone who has an issue when it comes to work.

 

[700UW]

I actually rewrote all the lavatory servicing procedures in the Aircraft Appearance Manual, and there isnt a requirement for a guide person when backing a lav truck to an airplane, when I was there.

 

[rockit2]

Jester,
 
The first scenario I am aware happened and have received an e-mail from a shop steward detailing what happened so that we may use against the Company on a weight and balance issue going forward. The second scenario of a Lead being suspended for the same thing a week prior did not happen. I get notified of all suspensions and that did not occur.
 
This is what I ask a person to do in the future when confronted by management to do something they think is wrong:
 
1. Ask for a shop steward immediately.
2. Ask if the manager wants to sign off on load because you won't.
3. Ask the manager to call me to discuss the issue. You see Jester, I would tell the manager something like, " Weigh the F**king mail or it isn't going on."
 
I find it very disappointing that you say that Union leaders here in PHX won't back you when I know that to be false. I would gladly discuss any issues you have and show you the list of resolved grievances here in PHX if you so choose. I am at the airport all this week if you want to meet with me. 
 
P. Rez

Get the FAA involved, use the word flight safety. Year's ago in CLT on some issues OSHA was called, you don't have to give your name and they will follow up on claims.

 

[blue collar]

The AGC for PHX ramp has posted on this thread and offered to help and meet with anyone who has an issue when it comes to work.

And good on him for that. Now if they can get all of the stewards/local leadership on the same boat then you're getting somewhere. My comments about berating these guys were directed towards you and ograc, I know you don't officially represent the IAM (maybe you do, who knows?) but you seem to be one of their strongest voices on here (some have said the WT or overspeed of the IAM). Solidarity is built by bringing people 'up' to your level, not by berating them into submission.

 

[ChockJockey]

And this is part of the fundamental problem of having leads as what I would call "gate managers". Leads aren't Management, but they have accountability for flights departing on time and to give CONX runners enough time to perform their assignments, so they are squeezed by the Company to cajole and berate their union brothers and sisters into unsafe practices... it is an ugly situation. Frankly, we need some larger force of the union to step into the issue to directly address the matter with the Company instead of relying upon on an ad hoc, grassroots effort by leads who are subject to write-ups.

 
If the ramp leads aren't willing to draw the line then nothing will change, whether the impetus is something "grassroots" or "some larger force of the union" (which for a union should be one and the same); if their unit leads will back them up and their fellow leads will back them up and if the union will back them up then they can simply decide that starting whenever, they will take the initiative and declare that no solo bin scanning will occur on their gate henceforth.
 
All a lead has to do is check out his bag and inform the assists and local runner that no one will be scanning alone in the bin on that gate on that day and the work will be done accordingly.  The lead sets the tone and pace for the work and by and large the assists go with what the lead says because it's all on him.  Maybe only one bin can be unloaded at a time, or maybe only some or most of the bags get scanned instead of all of them.  It might be necessary to remove the battery from the second scanner to keep any overly-enthusiastic agents from setting one up themselves and hopping in the bin with it.  Refusing to work unsafe may cause local bag drop times, departure times, and scanning % numbers to go down, but it will also certainly cut the incidence of "stingers" and long term physiological damage caused by working that way.  This will inevitably cause friction with management and lead to disciplinary confrontations, but these may be necessary in order to rectify how ramping in done in PHX.
 
So long as the lead can demonstrate that performance hits were the result of refusing an unsafe work practice and not spite or negligence no disciplinary action can stick as long as the lead in question and his union representation are willing to see it through.  Written up for a delay or a hit on local times?  An irregularity report should be filled out explaining exactly what happened and the safety reasoning behind it.  A grievance should be filed to boot. I suggest further an ethics complaint lodged against ramp management in general and any manager in specific for utilizing disciplinary measures to knowingly and intentionally maintain an unsafe work culture and environment, because if that isn't unethical I don't know what is.  Others have mentioned involving regulatory agencies such as the FAA and OSHA, and these should certainly be put to full use or at least notified of the situation.  Don't we have a safety committee? Could they be mobilized to help in the effort?
 
By seeking resolution through various channels above and around PHX ramp management one effectively reduces the degree to which they can control the outcomes, which they are desperate to do given their obsession with saving face and shrinking their operating budget.  It will take work and require people to stand up for themselves, but it can be done. If not, and if nothing changes I don't know who they'll have to blame but themselves.

 

[blue collar]

I'm guessing it is written into your manuals that you won't throw bags/scan at the same time? You guys will have to make sure all other procedures called out in your manuals are strictly adhered to, also. Seatbelts, wands (that work), vests, etc; cover all your bases

 

[700UW]

Its not the leads, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for your own actions, or lack of actions.
 
Is that too hard to understand?
 
Working safe and by the rules is EVERYONE's job!

 

[ChockJockey]

Its not the leads, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for your own actions, or lack of actions.
 
Is that too hard to understand?
 
Working safe and by the rules is EVERYONE's job!

 
With no due respect, you have no concept of the work culture/environment at my station and to pretend you do is patronizing in the least.  Having spent years now at my station - some of those as lead qualified - I feel confident in saying my perspective in regards to this problem is far better informed than some blustering has-been that hasn't spent a single day as a ramp agent.
 
I know that since you spend most of your life in front of a computer screen nitpicking details and leaving snide, useless comments you're bound to see and insist on over-simplified solutions for problems you cannot relate to, but I know PHX, have spent thousands of hours on the ramp there, and can tell you that in my opinion leads are key in solving this problem.

 

[P. REZ]

This issue has not been brought up in PHX until I read on this thread. I went to Wings and pulled up the training manual for scanning and it states to scan the bags in the bin or as they ascend or descend the beltloader. I will contact the DL 141 Safety Coordinator Tony D. to bring up this concern so that he can bring up in his Safety meetings with the Company.
 
For now, I am willing to listen to any concerns that anybody has regarding scanning of bags and will address with local management. 
 
P. Rez

 

[28L_or_10R?]

I am so glad I left PHX in 2007. If you are able, get your butts to Charlotte or Philadelphia and work with some real unionistas. PHX is the same den of rats that it always was. After a merger with American, PHX will be gone and we'll only be left with the bad memories. Don't like what I say?  PHBBBBTTTTT!!!!

 

[Jester]

This issue has not been brought up in PHX until I read on this thread. I went to Wings and pulled up the training manual for scanning and it states to scan the bags in the bin or as they ascend or descend the beltloader. I will contact the DL 141 Safety Coordinator Tony D. to bring up this concern so that he can bring up in his Safety meetings with the Company.
 
For now, I am willing to listen to any concerns that anybody has regarding scanning of bags and will address with local management. 
 
P. Rez

I agree... bags should be scanned either in the bin or on the belt loader either on the "ascend or descend". Isn't this pretty obvious? Does it mention anything about the same person scanning and placing the bags onto the belt loader either on the ascend or descend?

I know about six months ago we did an i-Learning and it was very specific about NOT scanning and unloading a bin by the same person, and my buddies and I got a chuckle out of that one! I know this issue has been discussed with various PHX IAM representatives.

 

[Harry Callahan]

I know about six months ago we did an i-Learning and it was very specific about NOT scanning and unloading a bin by the same person, and my buddies and I got a chuckle out of that one! I know this issue has been discussed with various PHX IAM representatives.

So what are you all doing ?

Harry

 

[Jester]

So what are you all doing ?

Harry

So what are you all doing ?

Harry

What am I doing? I am not placing my faith in the PHX IAM leadership to save my butt because I refuse to follow Management edicts.

 

[P. REZ]

What am I doing? I am not placing my faith in the PHX IAM leadership to save my butt because I refuse to follow Management edicts.

Jester,
 
So you are worried of what management might do to you? When I first started to organize to get a Union in at AWA I was scared because I didn't know if the Company would fire me and whether the Union could get my job back. However, I realized that something needed to be done to make things better so I moved forward by continuing to organize. I was threatened with termination at one point but continued my pursuit of what was right.
 
If you or other people don't present issues to me or other Union leaders how are issues to be resolved? I messaged you a couple of days ago and left my number for you to call me. I am willing to discuss any issues at any time with you or anyone else. After I address these issues with management I will get back to you and discuss the outcome.  
 
P. Rez