Nov/Dec 2013 Fleet Service Discussion

[roabilly]

Roa,
 
How is retirement?

I've been too busy to realize I'm retired!

 

[700UW]

Is the farm keeping you busy?

 

[psa8979]

UA/CO IAM D-141 Members have spoken . Now it's LCC IAM Members job to step up and stop the GREED, DIVISION, APATHY, CONTRACTING -OUT, and POLITICS . For those that have been paying attention and understand THE BIG PICTURE it won't happen by  hoping that D-141 is the solution. Working at SFO and being a Member of a local controlled by UA/IAM Members I realized the writing was on the wall for US at LCC for a while now. Time to join our D-142 LCC M&R Brothers/Sisters in SOLIDARITY moving forward towards CONTRACTS NOW !  CONTRACTS for ALL ! and MERGER with TWU/AMR Group.

 

[ograc]

 
Discplined because the plane took a delay as one refused to complete the task as instructed by the lead/unit lead/manager.  Usually that's a performance write-up and get enough of those it leads to termination.  Don't like it, then grieve it an hope the union shows enough interest to fight for your job... I wouldn't assume they care enough beyond some token representation.  Why take the chance?
 
If I am injured then I have a simple explanation, "Management encourages the practice of scanning and tossing out bags by one person in the bin, because the flights are inadequately staffed and not a single person has EVER been written-up for doing it that way, and everyone knows that is how the job has been done."  You think that's going to get rejected for a worker's comp claim when the Company knows it is happening, encourages it happening, and never written-up or even warned a single person for that practice?  Clearly a precendence has been set for many years, and that's the way the Company likes it.  I will take my chances in a workers comp hearing with an attorney versus the IAM representing me in a job termination.

Jester. Grow a spine. As long as there are members with such a fearful posture, the union and it's collective group, stand to gain nothing. Lock and Load Mother F##### we're going in! I suggest you join us or apply for a management job. Don't be scared... it's just paperwork Brother! No one's getting "terminated" for following company policy. In my years as Grievance Committee Chairperson I have witnessed many who bad mouth the company and then turn to jello when confronted with a disciplinary hearing. I continue to seek the resolve, the guts and the solidarity needed from this work group to achieve the necessary improvements in our wages and working conditions. I can only hope your opinion represents a small minority in this quest. 

 

[700UW]

If he used the argument management condones, he would lose in a heartbeat, you violated company policy got hurt, your on your own.

 

[Solidarity]

 
Discplined because the plane took a delay as one refused to complete the task as instructed by the lead/unit lead/manager.  Usually that's a performance write-up and get enough of those it leads to termination.  Don't like it, then grieve it an hope the union shows enough interest to fight for your job... I wouldn't assume they care enough beyond some token representation.  Why take the chance?
 
If I am injured then I have a simple explanation, "Management encourages the practice of scanning and tossing out bags by one person in the bin, because the flights are inadequately staffed and not a single person has EVER been written-up for doing it that way, and everyone knows that is how the job has been done."  You think that's going to get rejected for a worker's comp claim when the Company knows it is happening, encourages it happening, and never written-up or even warned a single person for that practice?  Clearly a precendence has been set for many years, and that's the way the Company likes it.  I will take my chances in a workers comp hearing with an attorney versus the IAM representing me in a job termination.

 

[Solidarity]

 
Discplined because the plane took a delay as one refused to complete the task as instructed by the lead/unit lead/manager.  Usually that's a performance write-up and get enough of those it leads to termination.  Don't like it, then grieve it an hope the union shows enough interest to fight for your job... I wouldn't assume they care enough beyond some token representation.  Why take the chance?
 
If I am injured then I have a simple explanation, "Management encourages the practice of scanning and tossing out bags by one person in the bin, because the flights are inadequately staffed and not a single person has EVER been written-up for doing it that way, and everyone knows that is how the job has been done."  You think that's going to get rejected for a worker's comp claim when the Company knows it is happening, encourages it happening, and never written-up or even warned a single person for that practice?  Clearly a precendence has been set for many years, and that's the way the Company likes it.  I will take my chances in a workers comp hearing with an attorney versus the IAM representing me in a job termination.

 

[Kev3188]

 
 
If I am injured then I have a simple explanation, "Management encourages the practice of scanning and tossing out bags by one person in the bin, because the flights are inadequately staffed and not a single person has EVER been written-up for doing it that way, and everyone knows that is how the job has been done."  You think that's going to get rejected for a worker's comp claim when the Company knows it is happening, encourages it happening, and never written-up or even warned a single person for that practice?  Clearly a precendence has been set for many years, and that's the way the Company likes it.  I will take my chances in a workers comp hearing with an attorney versus the IAM representing me in a job termination.

Do I think it'll get rejected? You bet. I've seen it happen. Past practice doesn't even come in to play here. 
 
Note: Just for the record, I sincerely hope you never get hurt, 'cause well, it hurts.  

 

[Jester]

Jester. Grow a spine. As long as there are members with such a fearful posture, the union and it's collective group, stand to gain nothing. Lock and Load Mother F##### we're going in! I suggest you join us or apply for a management job. Don't be scared... it's just paperwork Brother! No one's getting "terminated" for following company policy. In my years as Grievance Committee Chairperson I have witnessed many who bad mouth the company and then turn to jello when confronted with a disciplinary hearing. I continue to seek the resolve, the guts and the solidarity needed from this work group to achieve the necessary improvements in our wages and working conditions. I can only hope your opinion represents a small minority in this quest.

Well maybe the IAM needs to man-up and protect the people in PHX? Word around the campfire was that 2 weeks ago Manager ordered a lead to violate Company and FAA policies on weight and balance on mail which the weight was not known, and better yet? The discussion was on the radio! Everyone with a radio on that channel heard the orders and the lead was balking, as he should have done! Now I would have expected a Hellfire of shop stewards descending upon the Manager after the lead requested a discussion regarding the matter at the gate... didn't happen. Then I heard another lead was suspended for doing the same thing a week prior! Where's the union, as the suspended lead did what Management was ordering another lead to do shortly afterwards!

Now if you True Believers want to throw yourself on the grenade as a Management test, then by all means... do it, but don't go bashing others who think you are stupid for testing Management with an inactive and ineffective IAM leadership who hasn't exactly demonstrated themselves strongly in PHX!

 

[Black Magic]

Jester makes some sound points..Both the IAM and Management pick and choose/look the other way depending on whats important at the moment and "who" is involved.  I've witnessed it go either way.......

 

[P. REZ]

Well maybe the IAM needs to man-up and protect the people in PHX? Word around the campfire was that 2 weeks ago Manager ordered a lead to violate Company and FAA policies on weight and balance on mail which the weight was not known, and better yet? The discussion was on the radio! Everyone with a radio on that channel heard the orders and the lead was balking, as he should have done! Now I would have expected a Hellfire of shop stewards descending upon the Manager after the lead requested a discussion regarding the matter at the gate... didn't happen. Then I heard another lead was suspended for doing the same thing a week prior! Where's the union, as the suspended lead did what Management was ordering another lead to do shortly afterwards!

Now if you True Believers want to throw yourself on the grenade as a Management test, then by all means... do it, but don't go bashing others who think you are stupid for testing Management with an inactive and ineffective IAM leadership who hasn't exactly demonstrated themselves strongly in PHX!

Jester,
 
The first scenario I am aware happened and have received an e-mail from a shop steward detailing what happened so that we may use against the Company on a weight and balance issue going forward. The second scenario of a Lead being suspended for the same thing a week prior did not happen. I get notified of all suspensions and that did not occur.
 
This is what I ask a person to do in the future when confronted by management to do something they think is wrong:
 
1. Ask for a shop steward immediately.
2. Ask if the manager wants to sign off on load because you won't.
3. Ask the manager to call me to discuss the issue. You see Jester, I would tell the manager something like, " Weigh the F**king mail or it isn't going on."
 
I find it very disappointing that you say that Union leaders here in PHX won't back you when I know that to be false. I would gladly discuss any issues you have and show you the list of resolved grievances here in PHX if you so choose. I am at the airport all this week if you want to meet with me. 
 
P. Rez

 

[necigrad]

Just out of curiosity on the mail thing, can't you guys add?  It's not that complicated and something that should be learned by like the third grade.  Every single piece of mail has a weight on it.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Well maybe the IAM needs to man-up and protect the people in PHX? Word around the campfire was that 2 weeks ago Manager ordered a lead to violate Company and FAA policies on weight and balance on mail which the weight was not known, and better yet? The discussion was on the radio! Everyone with a radio on that channel heard the orders and the lead was balking, as he should have done! Now I would have expected a Hellfire of shop stewards descending upon the Manager after the lead requested a discussion regarding the matter at the gate... didn't happen. Then I heard another lead was suspended for doing the same thing a week prior! Where's the union, as the suspended lead did what Management was ordering another lead to do shortly afterwards!

Now if you True Believers want to throw yourself on the grenade as a Management test, then by all means... do it, but don't go bashing others who think you are stupid for testing Management with an inactive and ineffective IAM leadership who hasn't exactly demonstrated themselves strongly in PHX!

Jester IF what you say is true, PHX needs to get its act together. I lean to agree with P. Rez.

Harry

 

[Jester]

Just out of curiosity on the mail thing, can't you guys add?  It's not that complicated and something that should be learned by like the third grade.  Every single piece of mail has a weight on it.

I asked a lead the same thing, and he said that per Company policies, leads are no longer allowed to add the weight of the mail and use that information into the weight and balance calculations. It would especially difficult if we are talking about 100+ pieces of mail and obtaining an accurate count, so the Company does not allow any of it to happen, even a couple of pieces (officially). As I understand the event in question, the mail was approximately a cart's worth, so a simple count or even the old average of 17 pounds per piece would be a clear violation, and leads have been written-up for adding the weight of less than 10 pieces of mail. The mail must be weighted and the information entered into the computer by cargo point, as I have been told by several leads. I have down loaded mail that would be through mail on the outbound and have been told consistently by leads, "If it isn't on the paperwork, then it comes off... even a few pieces."

 

[Jester]

I find it very disappointing that you say that Union leaders here in PHX won't back you when I know that to be false. I would gladly discuss any issues you have and show you the list of resolved grievances here in PHX if you so choose. I am at the airport all this week if you want to meet with me. 
 
P. Rez

I am going to respectfully disagree with for the simple reason that you know as well as I do that it violates Company policy to have one person in the bin scanning and tossing bags, and yet, if you have spent any time on the ramp, you would know this is the norm. So poignantly, where's the PHX union been on this matter? The Company's i-Learning tells the ramp not to do this, you know it is an issue, Management isn't objecting... The Bag's in Your Court.