Nov/Dec 2013 Fleet Service Discussion

[Black Magic]

Company policy is person inside bin loading/unloading and have a dedicated person outside the bin to scan?? That is news to me and probably most of the phx ramp...I'm tired of unloading AND scanning inside the bin by myself.  Time for the union to step in and get management to staff accordingly!

 

[ChockJockey]

I remember being told that if/when you're alone in the bin on an offload what you're supposed to do is:
 
1. Scan the bag.
2. Set the scanner down.
3. Lift bag up.
4. Put bag on belt loader.
5. Pick up scanner
6. Repeat.
 
But I never see it being done this way.

 

[robbedagain]

2 people in the bin is the proper and safe way
 
if theres 4 people to a flight  at least it is in our stat most of the time  1 scans  2 in the bin and 1 at end of belt to stack the bags  this also includes leads 

 

[Tim Nelson]

I remember being told that if/when you're alone in the bin on an offload what you're supposed to do is:
 
1. Scan the bag.
2. Set the scanner down.
3. Lift bag up.
4. Put bag on belt loader.
5. Pick up scanner
6. Repeat.
 
But I never see it being done this way.

I dont think company would let me be the only person in the bin and also scanning. I can assure you it would only happen one time. If i may ask, why would someone in phx be intimidated by just refusing to work unsafe?

 

[ograc]

Company policy is person inside bin loading/unloading and have a dedicated person outside the bin to scan?? That is news to me and probably most of the phx ramp...I'm tired of unloading AND scanning inside the bin by myself.  Time for the union to step in and get management to staff accordingly!

I believe the over riding company policy is to not perform any task that you, as an individual, threatens your personal safety. Better to act on the side of personal safety as to prevent personal injury. If you need assistance... wait for assistance. Corporate Safety wants a safe working environment. High OJIs is what they are trying to prevent. When a member risks his or her own personal safety in an effort to gain an on time departure shame on them. I've been witness to countless post injury claims where the company takes the same response. In the end; the company and the union wants it's employees/members respectably to work safe. No one is getting terminated for following safety guidelines. On the other hand; the same can't be said for those found guilty of violating safety guidelines. Common sense. Do we really need the mysterious union leadership to explain and lead on what should be such an obvious issue?   

 

[Kev3188]

Just curious: Why are you guys scanning in the bin at all? Staffing aside, it seems like an ergonomic nightmare. Why isn't the person at the bottom of the belt doing it?

 

[robbedagain]

kev  not sure about all stations  but at mine  who ever runs the bags scans the bags and 1 or 2 will stack it on the cart and 2 others in the bin  though on the airbus 319 20 21 only 1 goes in the bin most of the time...  i prefer to have a helper in the bin even on the airbus

 

[Jester]

Just curious: Why are you guys scanning in the bin at all? Staffing aside, it seems like an ergonomic nightmare. Why isn't the person at the bottom of the belt doing it?

Exactly my point... it is ergonomically unsafe, and the issue has been raised to the local IAM leadership. Keep in mind, we now have a large number of East guys from PHL and CLT and they cannot believe this is an acceptable practice, but they do it because they probably have some reservations about getting local union support if they refuse to scan and toss in the bins... I know I do.

To answer your question as to why someone at the bottom of the belt isn't scanning, the answer is simple... there isn't anyone staffed for the job. The lead is conducting their post-arrival walk around, hooking-up power and air, and grabbing gate checks and delivering them to the jet bridge upstairs, so that ties-up one person. If it is a split load of bags forward and aft, especially CONX which come off first, then there are person in both bins. So a 3-man team (1 lead, 2 assist) have one in each bin and the lead conducting other duties. Maybe there is a local runner who splits duties between two gates who can help. Other people left are the CONX runners who are too busy handling their sorting and stacking their bags. So who's left to scan? The guys in the bins.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Are you saying PHX is understaffed?

 

[ChockJockey]

I dont think company would let me be the only person in the bin and also scanning. I can assure you it would only happen one time. If i may ask, why would someone in phx be intimidated by just refusing to work unsafe?

 
They 'let' people in PHX do it for almost every flight every day, for at least a portion of the offload until someone can get up on the belt loader and grab the scanner.  It's funny the very wide variety of things you can get an ESON for but I've never ever heard of anyone getting one for scanning solo in the bin.  On the part of the leads there might be some feelings of intimidation but by and large people do it this way because, well, everyone else pretty much does and has since we've been doing it and management doesn't push it as a safety issue as they do seatbelts or PED's on the ramp.  It's a bit of a conspiracy of ignorance and complacency and groupthink I suppose. Some people might not (apparently don't) consider it inherently unsafe.
 
I'd imagine if enough people got to thinking about it and talking about it and supported a culture against solo bin scanning it could be eliminated eventually.  This, to me, would have to start by reaching out to the leads and deciding how best to do the job while avoiding having one person alone with the scanner.  The easiest solution may simply be to unload one bin at a time, and if the local bags take a hit on the time that's just too bad.  If leads know that other leads are willing to do the same and back them up it will be easier to stand up to a management obsessed with metrics.
 

Just curious: Why are you guys scanning in the bin at all? Staffing aside, it seems like an ergonomic nightmare. Why isn't the person at the bottom of the belt doing it?

 
Probably because it's how we were shown to do it since the beginning.  Before they rolled out all the scanners they had one gate use them for a couple of months beforehand to test it out, and I remember working that gate at the time and we were scanning in the bin not knowing any better.  This was a gate that at the time could not accommodate 321's or 757's and so the scanners weren't tested on those bins.   Being at the bottom of the belt loader and scanning bags as they come off and tossing them into a cart isn't very ergonomic or easy either.
 

Are you saying PHX is understaffed?

 
Goodness no, not understaffed...just over-VTO'd.

 

[psa8979]

PHX is still AWA even with the influx of PSA,US, and PDT IAM Members. Since there is no Company Standards that are enforced  each LCC Station whether it's a HUB, F/C, or SPOKE does it  THEIR WAY. LCC Management will look the other way and not enforce their own CP/GOM as long as YOUR GETTIN IT DONE ! SFO leads are responsible for scanning ALL bags. We do have some WESTY's that do it THEIR WAY , unfortunately . Until there is a C/S system wide, IAM Members work safe/together, challenge dysfunctional LCC management this will continue in PHX and other Stations . So, until there is a TA CBA and we do or don't merge with AMR/TWU it's STATUS QUE ! The enemy is not the UNION it could be YOU or LCC ?

 

[Jester]

I'd imagine if enough people got to thinking about it and talking about it and supported a culture against solo bin scanning it could be eliminated eventually.  This, to me, would have to start by reaching out to the leads and deciding how best to do the job while avoiding having one person alone with the scanner.  The easiest solution may simply be to unload one bin at a time, and if the local bags take a hit on the time that's just too bad.  If leads know that other leads are willing to do the same and back them up it will be easier to stand up to a management obsessed with metrics.
 
 
Probably because it's how we were shown to do it since the beginning.  Before they rolled out all the scanners they had one gate use them for a couple of months beforehand to test it out, and I remember working that gate at the time and we were scanning in the bin not knowing any better.  This was a gate that at the time could not accommodate 321's or 757's and so the scanners weren't tested on those bins.   Being at the bottom of the belt loader and scanning bags as they come off and tossing them into a cart isn't very ergonomic or easy either.

And this is part of the fundamental problem of having leads as what I would call "gate managers". Leads aren't Management, but they have accountability for flights departing on time and to give CONX runners enough time to perform their assignments, so they are squeezed by the Company to cajole and berate their union brothers and sisters into unsafe practices... it is an ugly situation. Frankly, we need some larger force of the union to step into the issue to directly address the matter with the Company instead of relying upon on an ad hoc, grassroots effort by leads who are subject to write-ups.

And you are right... during the testing phase, people assumed that scanning and tossing bags from the bin wasn't so bad, but after a few flights, one arm pulls while holding a scanner gets old real quickly. Management made it clear there would be no additional staffing for the scanning duties. Also let's keep in mind that it isn't just the guys in the bins doing the scanning and tossing, as the Leads are at times forced to scan and toss onto the belt loader during uploads if two assist are in the bins or if it is a simultaneous upload forward and aft.

Honestly, I am getting annoyed with persistent, nagging injuries like "stingers" that run from my hand up to my shoulder from having to pull bags with one hand while attempting to support the bag with another hand gimped by holding a scanner. Meanwhile Management does not appear to care and neither does the union.

 

[700UW]

Excuses excuses, bottom line is you willing violate company policy, and you shouldnt.
 
Just wait till you get hurt when you violate the rules and they deny your coverage under workers' comp.
 
Work smart people.

 

[blue collar]

Excuses excuses, bottom line is you willing violate company policy, and you shouldnt.
 
Just wait till you get hurt when you violate the rules and they deny your coverage under workers' comp.
 
Work smart people.

Not really the answer that the members are looking for when posing a work related issue to their representation. Rather than putting it back on them, why doesn't the union make more of an effort to get in front of- and solve this issue? Instead, it sounds like you're just putting it back on the members. If the union educated the members and ensured them that they 'have their back', I'm sure the amount of unsafe work being performed would drop.

 

[700UW]

It is every worker/member to work safe and follow the rules.
 
Do you violate the MPP and/or deviate from a job card or procedure to fix a plane?
 
I know when I was told to do something that violated company rules, regulations or safety procedures I refused, and always got a rep, as I needed a witness.
 
Everyone is trained and made aware of the rules, it is personal responsibility to work by the established rules and regulations or  policies.
 
Guess you dont know about the two mechanics that the IAM spent over $100,000 and got them their jobs back when terminated for allegedly violating company policy on fixing a plane.
 
http://youtu.be/j3kXilc7w_k