Nov/Dec 2013 Fleet Service Discussion

[737823]

Tim if AA/US will be so large why can't you guys petition the grand lodge to get your own district? Does 141 not want to lose the dues?

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim if AA/US will be so large why can't you guys petition the grand lodge to get your own district? Does 141 not want to lose the dues?
Josh

Our membership at usairways may not grow as large as u think. Remember, the twu will keep the same proportion they have now.

 

[robbedagain]

Tim if as u say the delaney supporters lost the elections then may be delaney will back off and allow our nc team to negogiate better than what transpired at ua and ha may be delaney learned already?

 

[ograc]

My assumption is that the NC has represented our interest thus far and has said no to entertaining any of the givebacks that AH has asked for. Actually, my immediate concern is the possible circumventing of the NC by Delaney as he did constantly at United. Also, Delaney may put pressure on the NC, during his prescribed time, and manufacture a pseudo belief that givebacks have to happen or that  "This contract is great" mentality.  Such beliefs prey on ignorance of procedures and negotiation strategies.  The triggering of such foolishness by Delaney usually starts off with the words, 'The reality of the situation".  
 
 Make no mistake, the pressure may be something like, "We must take this contract because otherwise single carrier will screw us",  or the famous,  "The NMB will never agree to this sorta negotiation".  The path of least resistance was followed at United, and the IAM 141 chose not to fight certain negotiation strategies but instead put dues over the members.   Same could happen with the IAMPF. The IAM has a lot to gain to sign a mini contract and then jump into joint talks to gain the IAMPF per the association agreement.  
 
Do I sound skeptical?  Yes, and plenty of it, due to the actions of this eboard as they have betrayed Hawaiian, and now United.
 
At any rate, the ORD local 1487 booted out all Local officers not on the opposition ticket, last week. Those getting the boot were those who stood down and supported Delaney and the District eboard. Hopefully something was learned.

 

[ograc]

My assumption is that the NC has represented our interest thus far and has said no to entertaining any of the givebacks that AH has asked for. Actually, my immediate concern is the possible circumventing of the NC by Delaney as he did constantly at United. Also, Delaney may put pressure on the NC, during his prescribed time, and manufacture a pseudo belief that givebacks have to happen or that  "This contract is great" mentality.  Such beliefs prey on ignorance of procedures and negotiation strategies.  The triggering of such foolishness by Delaney usually starts off with the words, 'The reality of the situation".  
 
 Make no mistake, the pressure may be something like, "We must take this contract because otherwise single carrier will screw us",  or the famous,  "The NMB will never agree to this sorta negotiation".  The path of least resistance was followed at United, and the IAM 141 chose not to fight certain negotiation strategies but instead put dues over the members.   Same could happen with the IAMPF. The IAM has a lot to gain to sign a mini contract and then jump into joint talks to gain the IAMPF per the association agreement.  
 
Do I sound skeptical?  Yes, and plenty of it, due to the actions of this eboard as they have betrayed Hawaiian, and now United.
 
At any rate, the ORD local 1487 booted out all Local officers not on the opposition ticket, last week. Those getting the boot were those who stood down and supported Delaney and the District eboard. Hopefully something was learned.

Circumvention, or the hijacking of US negotiations, by Delaney and the International is certainly a possibility. I too believe our NC has put forth proposals that represent the best interests of the membership. I believe our NC wants to fight the fight. However, at the end of the day, many are politically and financially tied to Delaney's leadership. Lessons should be learned from what transpired in the negotiating process at UA. May I remind everyone; the ink wasn't even dry, on the ratified Trasition Agreement reached by this District at UA and the company has already announced system wide furloughs and reductions from full time to part time beginining in December of this year. Not sure this tide can be reversed by the membership or our NC at the former US. I just love making $2.00 less per hour than our new brothers at AA. Not feeling to "warm and fuzzy" with this merger or our represented interests going forward.  

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

May I remind everyone; the ink wasn't even dry, on the ratified Trasition Agreement reached by this District at UA and the company has already announced system wide furloughs and reductions from full time to part time beginining in December of this year.

Hey wait a second, I thought they had "Furlough protection for everyone" and "Jobs for life" with that spiffy UAL contract.Rut Roh,where's "Jerk Job" and the other idiot, "Ratify Now"?
 
Not for nothing but the IAM is making the TWU look good and the TWU is bloody awful.

 

[cltrat]

Hey wait a second, I thought they had "Furlough protection for everyone" and "Jobs for life" with that spiffy UAL contract.Rut Roh,where's "Jerk Job" and the other idiot, "Ratify Now"?
 
Not for nothing but the IAM is making the TWU look good and the TWU is bloody awful.

Hey wait a second, I thought they had "Furlough protection for everyone" and "Jobs for life" with that spiffy UAL contract.Rut Roh,where's "Jerk Job" and the other idiot, "Ratify Now"?
 
Not for nothing but the IAM is making the TWU look good and the TWU is bloody awful.

they disappeared like a cockroach with the light on.
Both as you probably know are on the IAM dime which imo make them beyond disgusting.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim if as u say the delaney supporters lost the elections then may be delaney will back off and allow our nc team to negogiate better than what transpired at ua and ha may be delaney learned already?

Sfo just had their elections yesterday and they chose a new local president to lead them as ord did. Before the district signed the new united contract this never would have happened.

Who knows if delaney ever learns anything. I guess the members decide and answer those sorta questions. Our primary focus needs to be educatinv members about their leverage and procedural items. To that end, delaney and atkinson remain disappointing by falsely alleging that the scs application can be put back whenever the association feels like it.

Make no mistake, the association will have to file scs within 6 months due to the contract that the twu signed with amr. Delaney had no idea about this and that should make your hair stand up since he is lead negotiator and wasnt equipped with educating himself about what contractual provisions are in place at amr
I think usairways members would be wise to understand delaneys playbook at united.

He told the united agents "contract first" even after filing scs then flipped like a pancake immediately after a vote and tossed everyone into transition talks which have no teeth and take years to hammer out.

 

[737823]

they disappeared like a cockroach with the light on.Both as you probably know are on the IAM dime which imo make them beyond disgusting.

700 isn't saying much either. He will say something like "all airlines have RIFs, no one is guaranteed a job in this industry".

Josh

 

[john john]

If IAM negotiates a better contract at US/AA than at UA that would be great! Can you say egg on your face? This could be problematic for IAM leadership

 

[robbedagain]

Tim the election in sfo was fhe delaney people voted out as well? I would have to think that may be this can play out much more favorably for US folks but time will tell

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim the election in sfo was fhe delaney people voted out as well? I would have to think that may be this can play out much more favorably for US folks but time will tell

I hope you are right. Thankfully we werent first up to bat like hal.

But then again we were last up to bat with canale so who knows.
If our peeps get hosed by delaney and his loyalists then they will probably wait till after the june elections if they are going to roll over with ah.

 

[T5towbar]

they disappeared like a cockroach with the light on.
Both as you probably know are on the IAM dime which imo make them beyond disgusting.

Say what you will about Tim, but he called it. Oh the irony.
On the same day people will get their retro, (the 16th) 200 furloughs and many downgrades happen, effective in Feb.

You don't hear from them now. Where is the District? LOA #5 means nothing now. I thought they would use LOA #6 and let the people who want to transfer in go first. But since only about 900 took the EO, they needed another 200 people to go. That's where the number comes in. IMHO, the buyout offer should have been better, and you would have got the numbers needed. Now the District is trying to scramble to find other options. But you know what it's all about.........THE DUES!!!!

Normally then the flight schedule slows, senior people at former CO (no more sCO) would have taken a COLA (Company Offered Leave of Absence) to save a few jobs. And get called back when needed (which is usually within 3 or so months) But with this District, they can't because they don't know IF they would be coming back! They would need an iron clad guarantee from the company before doing such.

Don't let these clowns fool you. You are in a much better position then we were.
No transition agreements or "helping hands". Especially with a management team who negotiate with everybody else EXCEPT their own.

Get what you can now!

 

[robbedagain]

T5 youre absolutely right bro. Tim I hope im right too I do think that cb and p rez and the entire negog team are looking out for us time will tell. Weve got the leverage enough is enough lock n loaded

 

[cltrat]

700 isn't saying much either. He will say something like "all airlines have RIFs, no one is guaranteed a job in this industry".

Josh

Josh, I'd go more with he'll use "the members voted for it" and conveniently leave out how the idiot leadership rolled it into Sec 6 and presented two pos TA agreements.
Now look where they are over there.
No wonder they are voting people out.