Notes from the AMFA 33 rally on 6-30

[jenny@nw]

I dont see that as bad faith by NWA, rather bad planning by AMFA. The situation as I see it was thus: Amfa states that the new terms are unaccepteble, and if imposed will result in a strike. Fair enough, and in good faith. Nwa states that if AMFA strikes, they will be replaced.

Ok, Mistah Platoon Leader- you tell me what you would do in this analogy.

You are looking out for your troops. Suddenly your group is caught.

Later on you are with your men building the bridge over river Kwai. Work conditions are ok and reasonable. Your captors,however - seeing that the food supply is becoming more and more depleted decides that they need to "let go" or do away with half your men.

You negotiate and tell them it's not acceptable.

Then they bring to the table that MORE people need to be cut (easier to kill), and the remaining men now need to work even LONGER hours. Food rations are 1/3.

You negotiate and tell them its not acceptable.

You keep emphasizing the Geneva convention that everyone is suppose to abide by. All they do is laugh in your face.

Now they are going to use the local natives who never held the hammer before or even have engineering background to finish the bridge.

Your men are all tortured, slaughtered or escaped into the jungle. Takes them a few months but now the men that escaped found their way back or figured out a way to sustain themselves.



Tell me if you were...the AMFA lawyers and the negotiating team what would you have done. This was all a ploy to make other workgroups give in.

I must say in all of this the AMFA lawyers did a superb job of looking out for the MX.

 

[Don Smith]

The fact that nwa had the SCABs on the doorstep was more than the proof I need to say they were not bargaining in good faith. The SCABs were on the job on Aug 20th AM. Would nwa just had the SCAB force aware that they may be getting a phone call and had them waiting at home that would have said to me that they had a "plan". By going the extra mile and having the SCAB forces on the doorstep in the hotel, being paid with assignment schedule in hand, that says NO BARGAINING IN GOOD FAITH. The AMFA's offer of 15% pay and benefits concession was a good offer. None of our membership disputes that part of the AMFA plan. The decision to strike was necessary due to the company demands to reduce our numbers to 500 down from 2,500.
Just look at your quote..."we knew that we were being prepared to replace strikers" You were being prepared to replace strikers that DID NOT EXIST. Filter that through and tell me I'm not telling the TRUTH. nwa's plan was to replace it's mechanic labor group with a non-union force. They did it the dirty way.

 

[Necrophilias]

So then, do you share hackman's belief that the act of crossing a picket line is no less evil than the brutal assault of a five year old? Or do you disagree with hackman, and only made that comparison in a sad attempt to generate hatred?
(by the way, I believe I said I disagreed with only SOME of Jenny's post. Most was right on, IMO.)

I'm not Hackman and I have my own personal code. Being a SCAB is certainly part of that code.

SCABS have hurt working class Americans so much that I consider them to be among the worst criminals on earth. You take my words any way that you wish. The people who matter to me don't SCAB. You on the other hand...'NUFF SAID!

SCAB = Your platoon leader on drugs. HA HA HA!

 

[local 12 proud]

"We could debate the moral issues of crossing a picket line Ad Nausium"

The Scab

"After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab."

"A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles."

"When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out."

"No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself." A scab has not.

"Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commision in the british army." The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.

Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class."

~Jack London (1876-1916)

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

The Scab

"After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab."

"A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles."

"When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out."

"No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself." A scab has not.

"Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commision in the british army." The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.

Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class."

~Jack London (1876-1916)

This is a common post I have seen lately, and I admit it is indeed quite eloquent. I wonder however, do you REALLY want to quote a known and ADMITTED socialist here?
As an aside, can anyone tell me the actual historic origin of the term "scab" as it relates to labor? Just curious.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Ok, Mistah Platoon Leader- you tell me what you would do in this analogy.

You are looking out for your troops. Suddenly your group is caught.

Later on you are with your men building the bridge over river Kwai. Work conditions are ok and reasonable. Your captors,however - seeing that the food supply is becoming more and more depleted decides that they need to "let go" or do away with half your men.

You negotiate and tell them it's not acceptable.

Then they bring to the table that MORE people need to be cut (easier to kill), and the remaining men now need to work even LONGER hours. Food rations are 1/3.

You negotiate and tell them its not acceptable.

You keep emphasizing the Geneva convention that everyone is suppose to abide by. All they do is laugh in your face.

Now they are going to use the local natives who never held the hammer before or even have engineering background to finish the bridge.

Your men are all tortured, slaughtered or escaped into the jungle. Takes them a few months but now the men that escaped found their way back or figured out a way to sustain themselves.



Tell me if you were...the AMFA lawyers and the negotiating team what would you have done. This was all a ploy to make other workgroups give in.

I must say in all of this the AMFA lawyers did a superb job of looking out for the MX.

google "Laws of Land Warfare" to answer your own question.Its pretty clear regarding conduct while POW.
To be honest, I dont know what strategy I would use if I were a lawyer for AMFA. NWA as far as I know, used very effective, very brutal, and LEGAL means to delegate AMFA to irrelevancy. Perhaps an attempt to heal the rift with the other unions may have helped, perhaps not. I do believe AMFA under-estimated a lot of different groups arrayed against them. Perhaps if they better understood the shift in attitudes regarding organised labor, they may have made different decisions.

 

[local 12 proud]

This is a common post I have seen lately, and I admit it is indeed quite eloquent. I wonder however, do you REALLY want to quote a known and ADMITTED socialist here?
As an aside, can anyone tell me the actual historic origin of the term "scab" as it relates to labor? Just curious.

Go read his autobiography, You would'nt make so much of a pimple on his arse SCAB. your a blood sucking leach, who takes the easy way out.

 

[local 12 proud]

Perhaps if they better understood the shift in attitudes regarding organised labor, they may have made different decisions.

The only shift I see are cowards like you who would sell granny for a few bucks. may your daughters beg for porridge while they carry your bastard grandchildren.

 

[robbedagain]

CG, SCAB AIR had made it publicly known that they had scabs in hotels all expenses paid plus free transportation. To me, SCAB AIR had ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE as to why THEY COULDNT NEGOGIATE in GOOD FAITH. YET they continued to make sure the contract got worse and now they are doing the same to the F/As. When will it all ever stop with those A**holes? I hope that one day they face financial problems but of course that wont happen.

 

[Necrophilias]

This is a common post I have seen lately, and I admit it is indeed quite eloquent. I wonder however, do you REALLY want to quote a known and ADMITTED socialist here?
As an aside, can anyone tell me the actual historic origin of the term "scab" as it relates to labor? Just curious.

THB-B-B! Give me a break already. When did CSARSCAB become interested in organized labor? Somebody smells like dead fish.

I suppose this will be good for another military parody from CSARSCAB.

 

[Hackman]

I believe the words you used were "moral equivilant". So, were you lying then, or are you lying now?

I see you still want to do the twist? Okay. You are the one living a lie csar scab, not me. Your foolish attempt to again imply similarities with using the graphic physical act of "the brutal assault of a five year old" with crossing a picket line is telling. Listen again Mr. Genius scab: ITS NOT THE PHYSICAL ACT I AM SPEAKING TO, UNDERSTAND???

It's the uncaring and callous indifference to the suffering of your fellow AMT and workers in general which you display csar scab. You respect no one, especially yourself. For all we know, you could be a child rapist, a thief, or a perpetrator of a host of heinous and immoral acts. Are you guilty? Its possible with a lowly scab type. What you are is a worthless scab, this contempt you see diplayed by many for you csar sits squarely on your shoulders. Denial only makes the hole deeper. Get used to the dirt being shoveled on your head.

Ok, Mistah Platoon Leader- you tell me what you would do in this analogy.


Excellent post Jenny.

 

[jenny@nw]

Don Smith says.......it was widely known that we were indeed being prepared to replace the strikers. I dont see that as bad faith by NWA, rather bad planning by AMFA....

The fact that nwa had the SCABs on the doorstep was more than the proof I need to say they were not bargaining in good faith. The SCABs were on the job on Aug 20th AM. Would nwa just had the SCAB force aware that they may be getting a phone call and had them waiting at home that would have said to me that they had a "plan". By going the extra mile and having the SCAB forces on the doorstep in the hotel, being paid with assignment schedule in hand, that says NO BARGAINING IN GOOD FAITH. The AMFA's offer of 15% pay and benefits concession was a good offer. None of our membership disputes that part of the AMFA plan. The decision to strike was necessary due to the company demands to reduce our numbers to 500 down from 2,500.
Just look at your quote..."we knew that we were being prepared to replace strikers" You were being prepared to replace strikers that DID NOT EXIST. Filter that through and tell me I'm not telling the TRUTH. nwa's plan was to replace it's mechanic labor group with a non-union force. They did it the dirty way.

NO! No! NO! He wants to know what kind of SOLUTION AMFA could have done to prepare and what AMFA should have done.

I know what AMFA should have done...*chime*

Upon HEARING that they were training MX... they should of gone out and created a replacement AIRLINE. Then you would of had 52,000 or 42,000 or 33,000 workers we have left to happily work at the replacement AIRLINE.

 

[jenny@nw]

google "Laws of Land Warfare" to answer your own question.Its pretty clear regarding conduct while POW.
To be honest, I dont know what strategy I would use if I were a lawyer for AMFA. NWA as far as I know, used very effective, very brutal, and LEGAL means to delegate AMFA to irrelevancy. Perhaps an attempt to heal the rift with the other unions may have helped, perhaps not. I do believe AMFA under-estimated a lot of different groups arrayed against them. Perhaps if they better understood the shift in attitudes regarding organised labor, they may have made different decisions.

I didn't even ask you A question on "Laws of Land and Warfare".

If you read my analogy, I know it.

Again, as expected, the topic has been skirted.

So I guess in this analogy the Leader of the group is at fault because he should have known better that their captors were actually brutal and unfriendly.How is the leader going to fight back after he had followed the rules to a "T"? What is he going to do when he sees them grinding the machette?

To the captors, it seemed to be a good idea at that time to use educated POW's to build their bridge until they wanted to save their resources.

Never mind the other captives from other nations because due to their country of origin, they are on different level of diplomatic "friendliness" with the captors. (e.g. pilots... :unsure: )

Told the story in a more gentler terms for those who can't go to bed without perfectly pressing their uniform and hanging it on their closet door for the next day......

 

[PurduePete]

...can anyone tell me the actual historic origin of the term "scab" as it relates to labor? Just curious.

Here you go...

http://www.word-detective.com/041899.html


Chances are that when most of us hear the word "scab," we think of its most common sense, that of the crust that forms on top of a wound. That was the original meaning of "scab," which we borrowed directly from the Old Norse word "skabbr" back in the 13th century.

Although any doctor will tell you that a scab is a good thing, since it protects a wound while it is healing, by about 1590 we were using "scab" to mean "a low or despicable person." The logic of this derogatory sense is not entirely clear. It most likely stems from the implication that such a scoundrel might well be afflicted with syphilis, which in its advanced stages causes a "scabby" skin condition. Incidentally, "sceabb," an Old English word related to "scab," eventually became "shab," which originally meant "covered with scabs," but which we use today only in the form "shabby" to mean "run down."

Since "scab" already was being used to mean "lowlife creep," it's not surprising that by the late 1700s it was being applied to any worker who refused to join an organized trade union movement. As one contemporary source explained in 1792, "What is a scab? He is to his trade what a traitor is to his country.... He first sells the journeymen, and is himself afterwards sold in his turn by the masters, till at last he is despised by both and deserted by all."

By the 19th century, "scab" was being used, primarily in the U.S., to mean a worker willing to cross picket lines to replace a striking worker. The great unionizing drives of the 1930's then transformed this sense of "scab" from industrial slang into a household word.

Kinda sums up your type in a nutshell, doesn't it?

 

[Hackman]

I like this statement; "He first sells the journeymen, and is himself afterwards sold in his turn by the masters, till at last he is despised by both and deserted by all."

This is exactly what Dougie Stealin' and his henchmen/women are doing to the scab pawns. :unsure:

....and csar scab, if you want a good read get the book "The Iron Heel", by Jack London. It might open your scab eyes.