NWA mechanics to rally at Capital on Monday

[PlayTheOdds]

You (Seriously) mean that there's such a thing as
"PRO-SCAB" ?????????? :down: :down: :down:

If there wasn't there is now.

I swear, It makes ZERO LOGICAL sense, that any Individual such as yourself, who, is the equivelent of(Lower than) MAGGOT FECES,....

Welcome back NH/BB, I almost missed you.

Tell me truthfully PTO, are you REALLY that "Uneducated",....That IGNORANT ??
You ABSOLUTELY DEFY LOGIC !!!

NH/BB, I am the most logical person you will never know. Don't you think it is about time for you to wake up to reality?

You ARE to be PITY/ED...
NH/BB's

No pity needed here, save it for your brothers that are fighting for unemployment benefits.

 

[Kev3188]

As it relates to the current NWA employees, that's an entirely different matter. There certainly is going to be financial hardship as these wage reductions are implemented, and that will be felt by everyone. I think a lot of anger gets misdrirected in those discussions.

One small correction: Those paycuts are already in effect for everyone, including management/non contract (which includes you, yes?).

As for anger? Well, I'm not happy about losing 19% of my income; I can't imagine anyone else feels differently....

 

[finman]

One small correction: Those paycuts are already in effect for everyone, including management/non contract (which includes you, yes?).

My mistake. And yes, I fall into that management category that already has seen pay cuts twice in the last 14 months.

 

[Red Tail Bear]

Nobody has a "right" to a particular job. They must earn it and continue to perform to keep a particular job.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Does this include upper management? Because what exactly have they done to demand the types of salary that they're getting.

How would you rate their performance during the last 10 years?

 

[Red Tail Bear]

My mistake. And yes, I fall into that management category that already has seen pay cuts twice in the last 14 months.

I'm just curious. What percentage of your pay does this represent?
And how does this make you feel when you see what upper management's salary's are?

 

[finman]

I'm just curious. What percentage of your pay does this represent?
And how does this make you feel when you see what upper management's salary's are?

For me, the combined impact of the two pay cuts is about 13%. I'm pretty low on the totem pole, and both management cuts were progressive, so upper management has taken about 25-30% cuts over the same period. Granted, some of the key people in those positions were given some sort of enticement to stay on, but that is just those that were considered critically important to the operations.

As one might expect, these cuts have driven significant attrition throughout the management ranks, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as the core functions are operating as necessary. It also creates some voids in key positions, which I view as an opportunity for potential advancement, which is the main reason I decided not to leave.

I think its fair to say that all employees (exluding a handful of executives) are contributing to and sacrificing for the restructuring effort. I don't hold any anymosity towards those that haven't seen their pay decrease, as I presume there were good reasons behind the decisions to do what was necessary to keep those employees from leaving. I hope to be that important to an organization someday, and I have the utmost respect for those people who have reached that level of success. Simply put, I accept the fact that I am more expendable than they are, and that gives me more motivation to make myself less expendable rather than worry about what someone else is compensated.

 

[PhxMama]

You make some good points. But don't people generally, after the age of 10 or so, move away from name-calling and yelling to more reasoned and civil discourse?

I certainly feel for those that lost their jobs through no fault of their own, but a certain job in a certain city with a certain pay rate is not an entitlement. If the value of the service provided to the employer is less than the compensation provided to the employee, something has to give. Obviously it's a painful correction process, but I certainly don't blame the replacement mechanics for siezing an opportunity to make a good life at a major carrier. Wages will naturally creep back up as the supply of mechanics balances out with the demand.

As for AMFA hardship, those striking members must have been able to make more money elsewhere, otherwise they wouldn't have gone on strike knowing full well that replacements were on standby to take over. So on that front, I guess I just don't buy all of the gloom and doom and misery that supposedly has occurred as a result of this strike.

As it relates to the current NWA employees, that's an entirely different matter. There certainly is going to be financial hardship as these wage reductions are implemented, and that will be felt by everyone. I think a lot of anger gets misdrirected in those discussions. The red herring, of course, is evil executives that pay themselves too much, and if only they didn't do that then there wouldn't need to be pay cuts. The real anger should be directed at the consumer, who greedily flies on whichever airline charges the lowest fare. I suppose it's easier to blame "scabs" and Steenland for all of ones problems then to face the reality of a market driven economy.

finman, Let me respond to your post. I realize the name calling can be juvenile. I know you have followed this board and have been pretty active yourself to know these posters have a unique and twisted(IMHO) relationship. They look forward to responding to each others posts and have been able to post their points of view and have had a forum to vent their frustrations. When I read sometimes I feel like I have intruded into a private discussion. Actually, a book could be written from these 6 months of posts. " A Modern Strike-2 sides of a Message Board Conversation" might be a good title. Mods, take note! Back to your post now. I think there is enough blame to go around in the negotiations but I think most AMFA thought this would be a short term strike if necessary and some type of compromise would have been made. The company seems to be working rather hard with the pilots and the f/s's and AMFA should have been given the same consideration. I don't pretend to know all that was involved but the management of this company needs to take responsibility for its financial outlook. My dream is for a CEO to make a promo and advise trvlers the prices will increase. I would love to hear a CEO say "We will keep all the jobs in the USA and keep americans employed at a living wage. I would ask all of you to consider that when making trvl arrangements. In turn I will ask my employees,myself included, to give my all in my job responsibility and customer service. I will ask you to let us know when we are failing so we can improve our service. I will also ask my employees to use american products so in turn we will give back to this country. As the CEO I will not take any money other than my salary which I have earned. If we post a profit we will give an equal percentage bonus to every employee,myself included. At that time we will try to lower fares while cutting costs where we can but not at the expense of these hardworking american families." How about inspiring and valuing employees? How many would go above and beyond? How about inspiring americans when many have lost jobs to overseas outsourcing? It is irresponsible for management to give any additional monies when any employee has lost their job. How can you lose money, downsize your operation and than give yourself a bonus when doing it? Whose fault was it that money was lost?
Where was the money for a rainy day(aka 9/11and fuel prices.) How can you give yourself anything when you left your company vulnerable, they should be ashamed they allowed their company to be is this predicament. Do you blame autoworkers when the US automaker CEO's failed to learn from the 70's oil crunch? Did they put their technology into building a better engine with better gas mileage. No, they lost market share to the japanese and other foreign car makers. Who is paying the price? The employee that has given their loyalty to a company that was shortsighted and failed in leading their company. I have often bought a product that was not the cheapest because I respected the company and was willing to support them. Why is is different for current NW employees, they all worked for the same company? Why should you not feel bad for them and not AMFA workers? Why would I feel bad for a scab when they dont feel bad taking someone elses job? I just think poor managment and leadership has been rewarded and other employees doing their jobs have paid a high price. I know I have rambled and will probably need to add to some of what I have posted.

 

[finman]

finman, Let me respond to your post....

PhxMama,

I certainly understand where you are coming from, and respect your opinion. From my point of view, what you are envisioning is a bit idealistic, but there is certainly nothing wrong with wishing something to be ideal. I guess I look at things in a bit more pragmatic realm, which looks at how things actually work in a global market economy, and trying to form my opinions and mold my skills to fit into that structure.

I would be all for Americans only buying American made products, and I too do my best to follow that creed when I can. (For example, I drive an S-10 rather than a more efficient and reliable Toyota product). Unfortunately, these anecdotal and sporadic sacrifices don't make enough of a dent to sustain the higher cost structure of making products in the US. What is the solution? Well, in a free economy that means that US producers must adapt to compete, which as you pointed out, was not done with adequate foresight in the past.

I guess what it comes down to is coming up with solutions, rather than just blaming the companies that are now trying to adapt (even if it is a little late). Yes, NWA failed in creating a long-term business plan in the past that accounted for fuel price increases, yield decreases, wars, and other negative impacts on the bottom line. Hopefully the restuctured NWA will be able to compete and prosper.

As far as AMFA vs the rest of the work groups. Unfortunately, AMFA and NWA were too far apart from the beginning of negotiations, and it was clear that AMFA would never even come close to what NWA wanted as a cost structure for the maintenance operations. That "doomed from the beginning" nature drove the need for advance contingency planning and the eventual replacement of the workforce. Certainly, NWA created the cost structure that existed under AMFA in prior negotiations, so they essentially created a monster that was impossible to bring down to scale via negotiations. My opinion is that AMFA should have recognized the seriousness of the situation and been more willing to listen to NWA's proposals. NWA should be commended for pulling this contingency plan off with the amount of success as they did. In the end, it may be the determining event that saved the company and saved the jobs of the remaining 35,000 employees.

 

[PhxMama]

I agree that my view is very idealistic but how does managment look themselves in the mirror after giving themselves bonuses while knowing their shortsightness caused job losses. I dont think they should congratulate themselves at all. I think if the situation was so dire they needed to meet with ALL the employees and ALL the union top officials. If they shown everyone what the bottom line was in plain speak and said we need to figure this out together so no jobs are lost things may have been different. They should have laid their salaries out on the table and shown where they would have lost and comparably the employees. So many times employees do not have the knowlege(or time) to see how operations have been affected by wages or cost increases. If things were so bad why not open all negotiations to every employee and allow employees to see for themselves. I agree that AMFA failed to show how dire the situation was but the company is equally responsible and shows no sign of remorse.

 

[Kev3188]

For me, the combined impact of the two pay cuts is about 13%.

Finman--

Is this 13% based on "straight salary" only, or does it take into account other losses (such as increased insurace premiums, etc.)?

Thanks.

 

[finman]

I agree that my view is very idealistic but how does managment look themselves in the mirror after giving themselves bonuses while knowing their shortsightness caused job losses. I dont think they should congratulate themselves at all. I think if the situation was so dire they needed to meet with ALL the employees and ALL the union top officials. If they shown everyone what the bottom line was in plain speak and said we need to figure this out together so no jobs are lost things may have been different. They should have laid their salaries out on the table and shown where they would have lost and comparably the employees. So many times employees do not have the knowlege(or time) to see how operations have been affected by wages or cost increases. If things were so bad why not open all negotiations to every employee and allow employees to see for themselves. I agree that AMFA failed to show how dire the situation was but the company is equally responsible and shows no sign of remorse.

All of the unions knew full well the economic hardship NWA was facing. NWA is public company, and NWA openned the books to all groups during negotiations. It was in NWA's best interest to share that information, so it's illogical to assume anything to the contrary.

The hard reality is that jobs had to be lost. The executives could have worked for no pay for the next 10 years, and NWA still would have expenses exceeding revenues. A complete overhaul is necessary to make NWA profitable, and that involves having fewer people being more productive. It's a fantasy to think that somehow if only everyone would have got together and sang kumbaya that they would have been able to construct a profitable business plan that entailed no job losses. What would make you feel better, if NWA had sent apology letters to each AMFA member? You're losing me on this post.

You're ideas are just too far removed from reality, and too much in the "touchy-feely-why can't we all just get along" line of thinking. Talking about those things make me a little uneasy.

Regardless, you've been a pleasure to talk to, PhxMama. Have a good weekend.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

And remind me again, just how many industry wide fare increases did NWA nix by not following along???


Just wondering how that might have affected the books.

 

[finman]

Finman--

Is this 13% based on "straight salary" only, or does it take into account other losses (such as increased insurace premiums, etc.)?

Thanks.

That is just the straight pay, which in my case is 100% of my pay. Our benefits have been significantly reduced as well (insurance premium increase, reduced sick time, etc). I think the plan is to have one company wide health plan after it's all said and done.

And remind me again, just how many industry wide fare increases did NWA nix by not following along???
Just wondering how that might have affected the books.

Probably an immaterial amount either positive or negative. We would have had higher average fares and fewer passengers, likely resulting in a net wash in total revenue.

When you say industry wide, keep in mind that that doesn't include LCCs. The majors don't dictate the price levels any more, so raising fares along with the majors would give the LCC's increased opportunity to take market share.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

When you say industry wide, keep in mind that that doesn't include LCCs. The majors don't dictate the price levels any more, so raising fares along with the majors would give the LCC's increased opportunity to take market share.

Au contraire finman, some if not all of those increases industry wide INCLUDED LCCs.

 

[PhxMama]

Finman, you also have a good weekend but I have one last post for you. Why would getting along make you feel uneasy? Does NW managment not feel comfortable without dissent(sp) among its employees? Do they thrive on a culture of uneasiness and fear? I didnt ask to send a pity letter to any AMFA worker. I ask for honesty and openness. Past history has shown that corp america ex) Enron has lied and stolen from its employees. Cant think of any others right now but you get my point. I understand corp america as my spouse is a CFO for a large company. I also know that the financials are very hard to understand and when you group that together with other corp liars the bottom line can be hard to grasp unless plainly explained. Bottom line. NW needed to get rid of employees because of its failure to lead this company into the future. When you have failed you should take responsibility and new managment should have taken over. How do you continue to keep any employee on your payroll when they have shown they are incapable of doing their job. And some of you think unions proect the incompetent?