No Entry Allowed!

[AMFAMAN]

I intend to do what I need to do to help keep MCI open. That means keeping amfa out.

With your lack of answering my simple questions, it is obvious that it is all about you. Is this typical of the twu unionist in MCI, no wonder you hated the IAM, they fought the company at times.

How much more are you willing to give MOJO?

 

[UAL_TECH]

Maybe you could explain the meaning of the coffin, and then I will understand your defense of, what I perceive to be very unprofessional activity.

That coffin was representative of the jobs lost under AMFA's watch!

If the coffin represents the job losses under AMFA's watch,
how large would the coffin be if it reflected the union job losses under the AFL-CIO watch (per member/per annum) ?

Please break that down by affiliation (IAM/TWU/etc...)

Can you graph that for us?

Thanks in advance,

Are we talking reduction in force (with recall) due to economic condidtions or are we talking permanent job loss (no recall) because they closed your facility?

mojo13,

Correct, Our facilitites (IMC/OAK) were closed under the watchfull eye of the IAM.

Good Calll!!!

Please provide us with a graph of AFL/CIO losses without the concessionary IAM IMC/OAK Closings.

Please include 'ALL' of your AFL/CIO membership and affiliations!!!

Only the last ten years please for my Excel data can only handle numbers as a singular.

What has the AFL/CIO done for us lately??? (Last 10 'TEN' Years!!!)
*** Not a FFFFFFFFFFxxxing Thing !!!!!

 

[mojo13]

Does that include lowering wages and benefits to make MCIE a Third Party Repair station? That is after September 2005.

Is that statement intended to spread fear and discontent?

I'm sure if that were to happen the house of cards would collapse.

 

[Buck]

No that stement is to tell what I have heard from the company. Take it for what it is worth to you. I have no need to spread fear nor discontent. I am attempting to remove the TWU not be one of them.

 

[Seguro]

With your lack of answering my simple questions, it is obvious that it is all about you. Is this typical of the twu unionist in MCI, no wonder you hated the IAM, they fought the company at times.

With all respect where respect is merited. The members @ MCIE have fought more battles than the rest of the TWU/AMFA members will witness in a lifetime. And Mojo was at the frontline 100% of the time, so do not patronize him! He's got more union blood lost with a good shave than most have in total.

MCIE will get 3rd part work, as TWU members. They will survive the selfishness of the TWU membership. They will survive the AMFA drive. MCIE has long ago found it necessary to take on the responsibility to save jobs. How much will we give? Hard to answer, we think of our brothers and their families, not our own paydays. We are a true family, union family, at MCIE.

 

[mojo13]

Maybe you could explain the meaning of the coffin, and then I will understand your defense of, what I perceive to be very unprofessional activity.

That coffin was representative of the jobs lost under AMFA's watch!

If the coffin represents the job losses under AMFA's watch,
how large would the coffin be if it reflected the union job losses under the AFL-CIO watch (per member/per annum) ?

Please break that down by affiliation (IAM/TWU/etc...)

Can you graph that for us?

Thanks in advance,

Are we talking reduction in force (with recall) due to economic condidtions or are we talking permanent job loss (no recall) because they closed your facility?

mojo13,

Correct, Our facilitites (IMC/OAK) were closed under the watchfull eye of the IAM.

Good Calll!!!

Please provide us with a graph of AFL/CIO losses without the concessionary IAM IMC/OAK Closings.

Please include 'ALL' of your AFL/CIO membership and affiliations!!!

Only the last ten years please for my Excel data can only handle numbers as a singular.

What has the AFL/CIO done for us lately??? (Last 10 'TEN' Years!!!)
*** Not a FFFFFFFFFFxxxing Thing !!!!!

I will see what I can do to come up with the information you are requesting....
but don't stay up waiting on it.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Mojo,

Are you going to answer my questions?

 

[mojo13]

Are we talking reduction in force (with recall) due to economic condidtions or are we talking permanent job loss (no recall) because they closed your facility?

How many ex-TWAer's out of NY,LA,STL and elsewhere expect to ever see another AA paycheck? Some are out almost 3 years already. Whose fault is this, TWU, IAM, AFL-CIO, or of course little AMFA and their 16 supporters.

NWA will be decided soon and you know UAL happened way before AMFA.

I would like to know if you intend to blame AMFA for those ex-TWA jobs lossed the past few years?

It is unfortunate that we have people furloughed from ex TWA. That was due to the purchase of TWA assets by American Airlines.

I am not going to blame amfa for that but I will say that amfa's track record for losing jobs far outweigh what has become of us due to circumstances out of our control.

 

[Bob Owens]

Are we talking reduction in force (with recall) due to economic condidtions or are we talking permanent job loss (no recall) because they closed your facility?

How many ex-TWAer's out of NY,LA,STL and elsewhere expect to ever see another AA paycheck? Some are out almost 3 years already. Whose fault is this, TWU, IAM, AFL-CIO, or of course little AMFA and their 16 supporters.

NWA will be decided soon and you know UAL happened way before AMFA.

I would like to know if you intend to blame AMFA for those ex-TWA jobs lossed the past few years?

It is unfortunate that we have people furloughed from ex TWA. That was due to the purchase of TWA assets by American Airlines.

I am not going to blame amfa for that but I will say that amfa's track record for losing jobs far outweigh what has become of us due to circumstances out of our control.

Hey Mojo;

I dont remember the Solidarity Day in 1990 but I do remember the one in 1991 in Washington DC. It was great to see all those unionists out there in force, and boy was it hot out there!

I have to wonder though dont you ever ask yourself, as a unionist, if the concessionary path is the right one? Dont you think that the unionists of long ago faced adversity, hardship, a hostile government and an apathetic membership? These challenges are perennial to the labor movement thats why having an accountable leadership is critical. We do not have that with the TWU/ATD.

There were always risks when labor chose to resist. Todays threats of moving the work overseas is not much different than what unionists were told years ago about moving the work out of state. They might do it, they might not, it depends, but to just cave into every threat? What is the point? Why have a union at all if all they can do is say "take this or it will be worse". Over 90% of the members only rely on the union for one thing-the contract. Only a small portion of the membership ever files a grievance or needs representation for discipline. We could save the two hours pay per month if thats all we really get. If we cant count on our union to get us the best possible rates of pay and benifits then we need to get an organization that will fight for just that, not one that simply tells us what the company tells them with no rebuttal from the union whatsoever.

I've been in this union for 17 years.

It has been leading the industry in concessions for even more years than that.

I was an officer for 4 years until they removed me because of the fact that I said it like it was.

I can tell you from my experiences and conversations that I've had that our "leaders", Sonny Hall, Jim Little, Mike Bakala, Gless, just to name a few are dishonest people who have a dislike of the 'membership'. I've heard so many negative comments from these people about the membership over the years, they say the members are apathetic, ungreatful, spoiled, lazy, uncaring, unintelligent and so on. They tell the members to accept concessions then turn around and blame the members for acceting them!

They preach among themselves that THEY are the "heart and soul" of the labor movement, not the members. If you dont believe me ask to see the minutes of the Internationals meeting in Florida this past Summer.

I heard Sonny Hall speak at a class for officers at the George Meany Institute, the first words out his mouth was "What a thankless job you people have taken on". Ed Koziatek said the same exact thing months earlier at a class for the officers of the maint locals in DFW.

Why would they say such things?

To draw you closer to them and away from your members. To make it so that officers start to disregard what the members say and become tools of the International.

Without a doubt being an elected Union Rep can be a challenging experience, aggravating and fustrating too, but thankless? Isnt that an insult to all those who voted for you?

Lets face it none of us are trained for the job of being a union rep prior to becoming one, so when you get in there you come under a lot of pressure. Especially if you were foolish enough to make a lot of promises while campaigning. That makes new officers easy pickings for the International. They try to gain your confidence by appearing to be "on your side" when pressure comes from the members to deliver. They then try to turn you against your members who put you there to represent them and make you into the sacrificial zinc of the International. They set up these "front" committees and "councils" but all the deals are cut between the International and the company before hand, the committes are then simply led down a path to a predetermined destination. This is how our contract negotiations were really done. Little and the company probably had the deal done back in 2002.

 

[mojo13]

Bob, losing the exTWA jobs when AA bought us and then agreeing to concessions, both leave a bitter taste in my mouth. In both cases it was an instinct of survival, the first for the majority of TWA jobs and the second for the jobs at the base that I work at. Maybe someday it will become apparent that it was the wrong choice, but one that I thought was necessary at the time.

 

[twuer]

Hey Bob,

Where ya' been? Been a little worried about ya'.

I've been in this union for 17 years.

It has been leading the industry in concessions for even more years than that.

There is something that I have been wondering about for a while but just haven't asked you about. If you have been sooooo miserable for that length of time why have you stayed?????? I mean if it has been going down hill (like you claim) for a really long time why didn't you leave and find work elsewhere?????? Why not find a place where they were "better"???????

Just some honest questions. . .

 

[Seguro]

*I was an officer for 4 years until they removed me because of the fact that I said it like it was.*

No Bob, I believe you were removed for your actions and the violations of your oath to the TWU.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, losing the exTWA jobs when AA bought us and then agreeing to concessions, both leave a bitter taste in my mouth. In both cases it was an instinct of survival, the first for the majority of TWA jobs and the second for the jobs at the base that I work at. Maybe someday it will become apparent that it was the wrong choice, but one that I thought was necessary at the time.

But you will have to live with it for six years.

The fact is that this union, who claimed to have full access to the companies books never revealed to the members the golden parachutes for the executives, the $988 million dollar write off for "Goodwill", the prepaid leases nor did they reveal how much accellerated depreciation the company utilized to exagerrate their losses.

You forget that this union hired THE SAME COMPANY that the company used to make the presentation to the International about how the company needed concessions to "review the books". Thats worse than asking your doctor to repeat what he said and calling that a "second opinion"!

You forget that THIS company bought TWA. They had plenty of money then and they went into this downturn after six years of record profits. Your reactions were probably affected by working for a company that has been on the brink of extintion for over a decade. Perhaps at TWA the situation was indeed as dire as presented, especially when viewed against how everyone else was doing. I believe that AAs situation was exaggerated and much of the $3.5 billion loss was accounting magic instead of real cash burn. It was legal, even encouraged under FASB/SEC rules as far as info to investors but not the type of information that workers should lock themselves into long term concessions with.

This company is still the largest airline out there. They are still one of the healthiest and their stock price reflects the investment communities faith in it.

The union had no plan, no rebuttal whatsoever to challenge the figure that the company threw at them, they simply gave them every penny they demanded.

Even Jim Little admitted that the concessions we gave were'more than adequate". Tell me, why should we have given "more than adequate concessions'? And for such a long peroid of time?

On top of that the Union maximized the cuts in such a way as to minimize their loss of dues. They made sure that we took the biggest cut we could without lowering a dues the same overall percentage. In other words they effectively raised our dues as a percentage of our total compensation.

Instead of doing away with "company paid Local Presidents", something that is inappropriate any way, we had to make up that dollar amount somewhere else. An other example of the TWU putting their finances ahead of the members.

The fact is that the TWU, and their concessionary contracts helped AA to kill TWA. The TWU has been helping AA kill other airlines for twenty years. How many more years of going backwards are we going to accept? At what point do we say enough?

We need a union that will look out for the members interests. A union that will challenge the company and get all the facts, both good and bad. This union has failed us for twenty years. Its time for a change.

The decision you made, you made based upon the information given. Information taken and considered under the assuption that those in control had your best interests at heart. I contend that from personal experience and knowledge gained as an officer in this union that these people do not have any of our best interests at heart. The further up you go the more disdain you see towards the membership. I've spoken to Jim Little, Sonny Hall, Mike Bakala about many issues. They all revealed comtempt towards the membership. They all thwart democracy. They all reward themselves very nicely and buy loyalty by paying those who serve them well. They get for themselves what they tell us is unrealistic for us.

We need change. AMFA and the AGW offer us that.

 

[Seguro]

We need a union that will look out for the members interests. A union that will challenge the company and get all the facts, both good and bad.

Might I add Bob the 45% NWA employees without even unemployment benefits now? Past the grievance filed Bob, what has AMFA done for these folks? And Bob, when Delle stated a couple of months, what did he really mean Bob? Please show me Bob some positives of AMFA that have verifiable merit.

 

[twuer]

Bob. . .
This company is still the largest airline out there. They are still one of the healthiest and their stock price reflects the investment communities faith in it.


Another HMMMMMM response??????

And why is that???

Let's see. . . AA making money = help of TWU (and other unions)
UAL selling $2 bill of "work", massive layoffs = fault of AMFA $2 BILLION!!!!
Yep, amfa sounds like the better union!!! WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob. . .
The union had no plan, no rebuttal whatsoever to challenge the figure that the company threw at them, they simply gave them every penny they demanded.

Wasn't this the issue of the "lawsuit" Bob? That was LOST!!!!

Bob. . .
This union has failed us for twenty years. Its time for a change

But yet you have been here for 17 years??????????????????????????