Negotiations........why?
- Thread starter Chuck Schalk
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AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
Most of us have read, heard the Association is ready, and the company said its waiting on the Association. So what is the real Truth?
My Questions are these.
Why would the company negotiate with Two unions? I ask that because can anyone tell us if the TWU/IAM have worked out the following.
1. vacation for new hires?
2. Double time vers 1.5 for Holidays
3. Total number of Holidays
4. IAMNPF vers 401k
5. Crew chief seniority or not?
6. sick pay issues
7. signing bonus
8. Double time for O/T
9. C/S policy
10 Amount of dues rate for members
11 Medical
12 Life time of new deal
These issues and more I will leave up to all of you to think up why would DP talk to the Assoc. when these issues and more not listed are not worked out? It all costs money, for negotiations correct, so if the Assoc. has not worked out issues then why talk? He and AA can wait we are under contract until 2018. It benefits him to wait since we all know that without a new deal its like a pay freeze. No Delta + 7%. I hope you all realize that that Money will be over life time of what ever contract we end up with. DP is not going to give it to you at day of signing.
The TWU has issues here at AA that need to worked out before DP uses them in negotiations against us. I assume the IAM guys have things as well.
The IAM/TWU/Assoc. negotiation team is made up guys from both unions, I assume that each group is going to look out for its members. This is the first contract for the Association and both groups will want to LQQK Good so which of these is going to screw their group.
Delta and UAL have less workers in Maintenance and have contracted out labor, if AA and DP give us something, IS the Assoc. going to bargain jobs for money. We all know we have new A/C and the amount of maintenance for those planes is less so just like Delta and UAL is the far out number going up? If so how many will be laid off?
Neither will want to give up what they have, If they let AA take from us again, will that be enough for all of you to say enough is enough and Make the change to shed AA of the TWU.
Each of the Assoc. work groups will have their own issues, ramp/stores/Facilities/Utility
Aircraft Maintenance both will be different at US and AA. Shouldn't we all have some say in what goes into the JCBA or are you all just willing to Take it AGAIN.
My Questions are these.
Why would the company negotiate with Two unions? I ask that because can anyone tell us if the TWU/IAM have worked out the following.
1. vacation for new hires?
2. Double time vers 1.5 for Holidays
3. Total number of Holidays
4. IAMNPF vers 401k
5. Crew chief seniority or not?
6. sick pay issues
7. signing bonus
8. Double time for O/T
9. C/S policy
10 Amount of dues rate for members
11 Medical
12 Life time of new deal
These issues and more I will leave up to all of you to think up why would DP talk to the Assoc. when these issues and more not listed are not worked out? It all costs money, for negotiations correct, so if the Assoc. has not worked out issues then why talk? He and AA can wait we are under contract until 2018. It benefits him to wait since we all know that without a new deal its like a pay freeze. No Delta + 7%. I hope you all realize that that Money will be over life time of what ever contract we end up with. DP is not going to give it to you at day of signing.
The TWU has issues here at AA that need to worked out before DP uses them in negotiations against us. I assume the IAM guys have things as well.
The IAM/TWU/Assoc. negotiation team is made up guys from both unions, I assume that each group is going to look out for its members. This is the first contract for the Association and both groups will want to LQQK Good so which of these is going to screw their group.
Delta and UAL have less workers in Maintenance and have contracted out labor, if AA and DP give us something, IS the Assoc. going to bargain jobs for money. We all know we have new A/C and the amount of maintenance for those planes is less so just like Delta and UAL is the far out number going up? If so how many will be laid off?
Neither will want to give up what they have, If they let AA take from us again, will that be enough for all of you to say enough is enough and Make the change to shed AA of the TWU.
Each of the Assoc. work groups will have their own issues, ramp/stores/Facilities/Utility
Aircraft Maintenance both will be different at US and AA. Shouldn't we all have some say in what goes into the JCBA or are you all just willing to Take it AGAIN.
That kind of says it all. We are still in a merging process between two unions and yet the union is wondering why no proposal from the company. Holiday pay? 5 vs 10. Overtime 1.5 vs 2.0. Outsourcing? Numbers vary but I heard AA approx. 25% and USAIR approx. 50%. The list goes on. Guys comment about the pilots and flight attendants having contracts in place. They did the right thing. Their respective unions conceded to form one union to represent one group. You know what we currently have and a setback of about 9 months trying to sell this disastrous association to the NMB. Plenty of blame to go around. I'll say it again, "ONE UNION, ONE VOICE". It worked for the pilots and flight attendants. They are moving forward. We are still trying to figure out what this Association is all about and how will it work.
ASSociation Clown
Member
All these questions were answered at the meeting I went to a couple of weeks back. Sounds to me like you're taking managements side in the argument by saying why would DP want to meet with the association.AMFAinMIAMI said:
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
700UW said:
The IAM side of the Assoc. has it's agenda to protect its dues paying members.
The TWU side has the same so until each is willing to give up something since we all know we are not going to keep what we have at each side. Nor are we willing to give up any more.
It all has to be worked out before DP will begin talks. So "YES" in theory the Assoc. is One Union, but with different halfs attempting to get ONE Deal.
ASSociation Clown
Member
Kind of curious if you consider working under a failed contract...doing "the right thing"? I hate this ASSociation thing, but lets not be revisionist with the pilots and flight attendants. The pilots here in Miami voted down the contract, and the flight attendants voted down their contract and work under one that includes a gift from management. Also, how do we get to one union, one voice, when the local leaders at my station brag about how they got management to pull work from other places to do it here, and then get their own deals on the side? These guys still are running it like we don't have one union or local. I like what I see out of the national leaders, but at this station it is all about them.1AA said:
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
ASSociation Clown said:
You say that it was all answered then tell me How many Holidays are we as a collective bargaining unit going to have? What is the rate of Pay for those Holidays? Is AA going to keep the IAMNPF and the current 401k programs? Are we all going to get the double time back or is the US side going to give it up and take what we here at AA have? How is the Crew chief seniority issue been settled. Which sides C/S Policy are we going to work under.
If you have all the answers then Post it for all to see. I will never take Mgmt side I just want the answers just like every one else.
AANOTOK
Veteran
- Oct 10, 2009
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So says the NMB...I did not say it or ask for it. But back to your comment. They are still two unions trying to get what is best for their particular members. Once they achieve a contract both (that's two) unions and their membership can agree and vote upon, then will you have one union. I do not see that happening anytime soon. Now, if you want me to say you are technically right, ok, you are technically right. In reality, you are soooo wrong! And let me add that right now "they" (AA I assume) are not negotiating with the Association.700UW said:
ASSociation Clown
Member
Ok...I apologize for the management comment if you took offense to it, but I am tired of everyone in this station giving management a free ride and helping them out, and then blaming the union for everything, and from your name you must be in Miami too. So my bad on that if you are one of the few here with their eyes open...AMFAinMIAMI said:
As far as answers, I will go off of my notes from the meeting. I tried scanning but the attachment is too large for this website.
On the holidays, they said we can't tell you how many the company will agree to or propose, but they did say on holidays and holiday pay that they intend to secure USAir at a minimum--although they want more on pay and number of holidays because the USAir guys obviously want more.
On the 401k, they said that they intend to keep the match and want it increased. The IAM plan may be there as an option for new money for those who choose to want to be in it, but we would not be forced in it is their position. Question was asked about getting the old pension back, and the answer is that it is highly unlikely the company would be agreeable to bring back the frozen pension plan. But they will ask once at the table
They want double time on overtime like the old days.
Crew chief issue was raised and is still being discussed. They said local has proposed getting a mediator or arbitrator on the issue if it can't be resolved--something like that. They don't know the company position on the issue is either
C/S policy was talked about and they said they want a policy that is in the book but better than the USAir policy. The same with a single day vacation policy.
They also want USAir line language where very little gets outsourced. They don't know where the company is at with it till they see the company proposal.
And they want anything else, like sick, benefits, etc that are better on the USAir side. They don't intend to have USAir concede anything that is better than ours
I took like 4 pages of notes and talked with them for a while after the meeting...
Here's a few more not contract related...there was some new medical return to work policy on jetnet they suggested reading that the local won through a grievance or something like that, something about a big grievance that the local won on the 401k match if you had a grievance, I already knew about our 401k changing plans, the union guys here get info to talk about every Friday from the president (have yet to see this here--said we should be having weekly crew meetings with the union guys--we had this at AFW and LAS(this local)), a bunch of guys complained about job continuance being a scam here and after they said what job continuance is supposed to be used for it looks like job continuance was being used wrong here, the union guys here know it, and that we should file grievances for overtime bypasses, there are lots of grievances at DFW, a few here, and almost none in LA. There was more, but that is about all of it that I wrote down.
ASSociation Clown
Member
See above1AA said:
ASSociation Clown
Member
So what are you going to do to support him1AA said:
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