Negotiations........why?

[scorpion 2]

Hey Chuck, do you guys have a date set to meet for contract negotiations yet?  Is the ASSociation considering contract observers at the nego table?  Was wondering why that was first on your list.  I think it would be a huge step in the right direction if they did allow observers, it would at least go a long ways with the membership...

Negotiated contracts or bankruptcy agreements aren't worth the paper they are written on when the president of the union can change the CBA with one (1) Letter of Agreement.  We lost our profit sharing in exchange for a temporary pay raise at the stroke of a pen. No vote, no discussion, no notice, just boom and its done!  Our whole CBA can be changed piece meal at a time after its voted on with the constitution we are bound by.  Why go through the wasted motions just let the 2 dictators at the top of each union sit down with the company make their personal deals then make our turd deal! Even if we had observers it doesn't matter the CBA can be changed after the votes are cast and the contract is ratified. With a letter of agreement the iam and the twu can melt our two agreements together, force us into the iamnpf and call it a day. Why all the smoke and mirrors hoopla?     

 

[dfw gen]

Just to make sure we are starting from a factual position

FAs have a higher match only if you are over age 50 when the BK CBA went in to effect.

Work done in South America and Europe is considered outsourced. Read the language on page 6 about outside service costs.

You can get paid for no lunch already.

You are pathetic.

 

[Overspeed]

You are pathetic.

Simply brilliant response

 

[Real tired]

This is not an AMFA debate!!
 
this topic is TWU ATD Negotiations..........stay on topic or start a new thread
 
or should I say stop diverting. The TWU Loyalists typically bring up AMFA when they can not defend the TWU.  
I will not get suckered into a meaningless debate between the TWU and AMFA. The Association is our representation and 
Just tell us how the great the Association is going to do for us......that's all
 
* observers at negotiations
*10% 401k like the flight attendants or 16% like the pilots
*job protection
*less outsourcing
*less deductibles on health care 
*industry leading wages
* double time and half on holidays
*quicker grievance procedures
*protect our frozen pension in the next bankruptcy
*take part time language out of contract
* much higher lead pay
* performance base incentives
*geographic pay
*shift differential pay increase ( industry standard)
*eliminate 4 hours pay to call in sick  ( mX only group to have this)
*more days to be on iod (10 days is not enough)
*modify travel charges in line with industry
*reduce work being done in south america and europe on our aircraft ( not considered outsourcing by the TWU)
*strengthen language in contract as a general concern (TWU language very vague)
*modify company rules of conduct  ( impedes on your life outside of work)
*modify no strike/no lockout language (currently only weakens us)
* bring back no meal
* make CS policy part of the contract
*modify representation in contract that will allow the employee more rights in hearings and when they can be conducted
etc..................
 
tell me about this, not about AMFA
 

I'll tell you about this.
 
Don't forget you guys are not alone in this matter.  If, and when they ever decide to start talking, the highly experienced and professional negotiators from the IAM will be there too.
 
And it's my belief that by the time this is done, we'll probably see a "hybrid" of our two conflicting contracts.
 
So, out of all the great things you listed, and me using the past as a reference, about the only things I think you'll see change from your contract might be:
 
* a change in your "CS" policy to more match our "swap" policy
* a "no meal" clause to match a "late lunch" clause
* the 4 hour sick pay
* the part time Mechanic
* Lead pay.  I forget what yours is, but ours is $1.75/ hour.
 
Just about everything else you listed, we lost many bankruptcies ago, and I never expect to see them back.

 

[Overspeed]

real tired,
In the IAM contract how does one put in for lead? In the TWU CBA it is an interview position.

 

[scorpion 2]

I'll tell you about this.
 
Don't forget you guys are not alone in this matter.  If, and when they ever decide to start talking, the highly experienced and professional negotiators from the IAM will be there too.
 
And it's my belief that by the time this is done, we'll probably see a "hybrid" of our two conflicting contracts.
 
So, out of all the great things you listed, and me using the past as a reference, about the only things I think you'll see change from your contract might be:
 
* a change in your "CS" policy to more match our "swap" policy
* a "no meal" clause to match a "late lunch" clause
* the 4 hour sick pay
* the part time Mechanic
* Lead pay.  I forget what yours is, but ours is $1.75/ hour.
 
Just about everything else you listed, we lost many bankruptcies ago, and I never expect to see them back.

We are not in section 6 negotiations and even if we were whatever is voted on can be changed with an LOA by the top two goonbahs. This whole thing is a farce! 

 

[swamt]

Negotiated contracts or bankruptcy agreements aren't worth the paper they are written on when the president of the union can change the CBA with one (1) Letter of Agreement.  We lost our profit sharing in exchange for a temporary pay raise at the stroke of a pen. No vote, no discussion, no notice, just boom and its done!  Our whole CBA can be changed piece meal at a time after its voted on with the constitution we are bound by.  Why go through the wasted motions just let the 2 dictators at the top of each union sit down with the company make their personal deals then make our turd deal! Even if we had observers it doesn't matter the CBA can be changed after the votes are cast and the contract is ratified. With a letter of agreement the iam and the twu can melt our two agreements together, force us into the iamnpf and call it a day. Why all the smoke and mirrors hoopla?     

Is your LOA's not voted on by the membership?  ANY LOA with our union MUST be approved by the membership---period.  ANY change what-so-ever to the contract takes a vote of approval or not by the membership, ANY change.  Even if the co wanted to all of the sudden offer a huge raise to the members of $10 bucks an hour still would have to be approved by the membership by a majority vote. Is this NOT the case with you guys and your unions?

 

[iluvaa]

Swamt please for the life of God don't turn this into another amfa thread. That's a dead issue we would like to discuss what's in front of us not amfa

 

[1AA]

Swamt please for the life of God don't turn this into another amfa thread. That's a dead issue we would like to discuss what's in front of us not amfa

He never mentioned that other union. Just asked about our LOA's. To answer it for him. NO!! We do not vote on them and many times never even know they are being discussed until after its a done deal.

 

[swamt]

Swamt please for the life of God don't turn this into another amfa thread. That's a dead issue we would like to discuss what's in front of us not amfa

I'm not and I didn't.  My question was purely a union contractual question related to LOA's.  Nothing to do with any certain union.  I have been following the wishes and avoided that specific topic for some time...
 

He never mentioned that other union. Just asked about our LOA's. To answer it for him. NO!! We do not vote on them and many times never even know they are being discussed until after its a done deal.

I am a little thrown back by this.  Is this something the membership could get changed?  Pretty sure the membership would pass it by a landslide.  LOA's are just if not more important as the contract itself.  If you guys have the chance I would try to put in for it to get changed.  And while you gauys are at it why not throw in observers to be allowed at all contract nego's as well.  Just some thoughts of some changes that would really benefit the membership after getting stuck with this association with no vote.  Thx for responding 1AA, and good luck...

 

[scorpion 2]

Is your LOA's not voted on by the membership?  ANY LOA with our union MUST be approved by the membership---period.  ANY change what-so-ever to the contract takes a vote of approval or not by the membership, ANY change.  Even if the co wanted to all of the sudden offer a huge raise to the members of $10 bucks an hour still would have to be approved by the membership by a majority vote. Is this NOT the case with you guys and your unions?

They are not voted on! Thats why I say this so called negotiation crap is just a farce. We lost our me-too provision and profit sharing in the last letter of agreement.  Who knows how much the removal of those two items cost us. Where would we be if the me-too were still in there. The pilots got better deal right after the merger but we were SOL because our me-too was removed once the merger was approved. Jim Little got the AMT's a 4.3% raise with the LOA but we lost profit sharing and the me-too provision. The twu's research analyst or whatever his title is claimed the twu didn't trade profit sharing for the 4.3% raise. What would it be called then a swap? The exchange occurred on the same LOA. The devil in the details was that less than two years later when the wage adjustment kicked in our wage adjustment would be 4.3% less. So the trade, non trade or whatever label you want to put on the exchange equated to us losing our profit sharing and me-too provision for fronting us 4.3% of our wage adjustment. 
We had no vote, discussion or notice that our bargaining agent was doing this. Just think of the abuse of power a system like this is capable of. We will never know what has exchanged hands over the years by our union boss having this executive ability. 
My concern right now is the prospect of us not having a choice of whether we will get LOA'd into the iamnpf and losing our company match to our 401. It could happen without a vote or notice after the CBA is voted on. That simple!

 

[JABORD]

Just to make sure we are starting from a factual position
FAs have a higher match only if you are over age 50 when the BK CBA went in to effect.

.

Hey genius, this display of ignorance should have subsided long ago. There is a tremendous difference between a "match" and a "contribution" that the flight folks are receiving to their 401k. Figure it out! Also the age demographics of our mechanic group both at AA and US makes your FA reference a moot point.

 

[dfw gen]

Hey genius, this display of ignorance should have subsided long ago. There is a tremendous difference between a "match" and a "contribution" that the flight folks are receiving to their 401k. Figure it out! Also the age demographics of our mechanic group both at AA and US makes your FA reference a moot point.

Your wasting your time one minute hes got his TWU cheerleader panties on then he's cryin in his glass when we get blind sided by the intl and their cronies.

 

[Overspeed]

JABORD,
Okay. I see you have it all well in hand.

 

[Real tired]

real tired,
In the IAM contract how does one put in for lead? In the TWU CBA it is an interview position.

Ours ...used to be..... by senority only.  We voted that away, and now it's by senority AND an interview process.
 
I actually don't not know, nor have ever heard of anyone going through the process.
 
I think we gained this process in our contract back around 2002 or 2003 during a bankruptcy, IIRC.