Negotiations........why?

[swamt]

Southwest airlines just posted a record $608 million 2nd quarter profit. But they are now using AA and twu negotiating tactics. So we have no jcba, ual/cal has no jcba and swa is playing hardball. Sometimes you wonder if the airline executives get together behind closed doors and plan similar strategies. We can thank the weak unions who sellout the members and tell them to vote yes to save jobs. Even in the best of times. How pathetic. http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2015/07/southwest-airlines-earns-a-record-608-million-in-q2.html/

I have heard that our CEO and your CEO are very good friends and golf together alot.  It may not be done behind closed doors but they certainly know the companies stance and what each other are doing at the nego tables.  And lets not forget that airline group that meets I believe quarterly to discuss various issues at each of the airlines including nego tactics at aech others airlines thru-out the industry.  You are right on with the airlines working together to get similar strategies...
 

They're trying to do it now with the WN flight attendants.

Hopefully most of the F/A's were smart enough to wait for the 2Q results before posting their votes.  I am guessing their TA will go down pretty hard.  There were a very large amount of language changes involved in their TA.  This is why language can and will be more important than just glimpsing over the pay offers.  Well over 220 pages of language changes to digest for a mere 10 voting time, no wonder the company only wanted 10 days instead of the usual 30 days to vote on a contract.  Push it out and hope they miss the large cost of the language changes of work rules and only see the pay offer.   I will add our nego's better tel our company that the membership will in fact have 30 days for road shows and info meetings to really sit and go over each and every single change.  When it is scheduled to only be presented to the F/A's for 10 days and the majority of the membership getting their updates at flight crew brake rooms between flights is NOT enough time to get all info out. Red fflags everywhere on this one...

 

[1AA]

So AMFA isn't that strong.

You can thank the industrial, one size catch all unions like the TWU, IAM and the IBT for weakening the negotiation tactics of our fellow union brothers and sisters in a once proud and respectable industry.

 

[Overspeed]

1AA,
It was the IBT who got the big raise for the WN AMTs before AMFA got in. AMFA has only extended the existing CBA several times with slight modifications while WN was making money and everyone else was filing BK. Now they actually have to do what the TWU, IBT, and IAM have been doing for years. Negotiate with a company that says no to everything. If AMFA is the way to a better contract in a tough negotiating environment stop blaming others for your failures, show us. Let's see those professional negotiators perform and see what they can do. So far they are no better off than the industrial unions on the property. Stonewalled and waiting. SWAPA is prepping for a strike, what about AMFA? Take WN down, show us the AMFA muscle.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

1AA,
It was the IBT who got the big raise for the WN AMTs before AMFA got in. AMFA has only extended the existing CBA several times with slight modifications while WN was making money and everyone else was filing BK. Now they actually have to do what the TWU, IBT, and IAM have been doing for years. Negotiate with a company that says no to everything. If AMFA is the way to a better contract in a tough negotiating environment stop blaming others for your failures, show us. Let's see those professional negotiators perform and see what they can do. So far they are no better off than the industrial unions on the property. Stonewalled and waiting. SWAPA is prepping for a strike, what about AMFA? Take WN down, show us the AMFA muscle.
 
 
 
 
Overspun wrong again...... you must enjoy being corrected all the time.  This is testing your credibiity of posting information
 
NEW YORK TIMES   2005
Mr. Delle-Femine returned to the big leagues in 1998 when 10,000 mechanics at Northwest left the machinists and joined his union.
"The mechanics have always been a minority in these industrial unions," he said. "They want their own union, and that's why they're attracted to us."
In 2001, he negotiated a 37 percent raise for Northwest's mechanics, making them the highest paid in the industry. Mechanics earn an average of just over $36 an hour; 
 
 
AMFA was making $36 dollars an hour 14 years ago, we are making $36.50 now!

 

[Realityck]

 

1AA,
It was the IBT who got the big raise for the WN AMTs before AMFA got in. AMFA has only extended the existing CBA several times with slight modifications while WN was making money and everyone else was filing BK. Now they actually have to do what the TWU, IBT, and IAM have been doing for years. Negotiate with a company that says no to everything. If AMFA is the way to a better contract in a tough negotiating environment stop blaming others for your failures, show us. Let's see those professional negotiators perform and see what they can do. So far they are no better off than the industrial unions on the property. Stonewalled and waiting. SWAPA is prepping for a strike, what about AMFA? Take WN down, show us the AMFA muscle.
 
 
 
 
Overspun wrong again...... you must enjoy being corrected all the time.  This is testing your credibiity of posting information
 
NEW YORK TIMES   2005
Mr. Delle-Femine returned to the big leagues in 1998 when 10,000 mechanics at Northwest left the machinists and joined his union.
"The mechanics have always been a minority in these industrial unions," he said. "They want their own union, and that's why they're attracted to us."
In 2001, he negotiated a 37 percent raise for Northwest's mechanics, making them the highest paid in the industry. Mechanics earn an average of just over $36 an hour; 
 
 
AMFA was making $36 dollars an hour 14 years ago, we are making $36.50 now!

 

 
 
 
                On February 25, 2009, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association
                (AMFA) addressed a letter to the National Mediation Board (NMB), stating:
                We are writing to advise you that the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal
                Association (.“AMFA.”) has determined that it would be in the best
                interests of the employees who AMFA represents at Northwest
                Airlines, Inc. for AMFA to request revocation of its certification.
                AMFA was certified in Case No. R-6621 as the representative of the
                craft or class of Mechanics and Related Employees at Northwest
                Airlines, Inc. Northwest Airlines, Inc., 26 NMB 269 (1999).
                Accordingly, AMFA hereby requests revocation of its certification
                that was issued in Case No. R-6621.

 

[lineguy43]

1AA,
It was the IBT who got the big raise for the WN AMTs before AMFA got in. AMFA has only extended the existing CBA several times with slight modifications while WN was making money and everyone else was filing BK. Now they actually have to do what the TWU, IBT, and IAM have been doing for years. Negotiate with a company that says no to everything. If AMFA is the way to a better contract in a tough negotiating environment stop blaming others for your failures, show us. Let's see those professional negotiators perform and see what they can do. So far they are no better off than the industrial unions on the property. Stonewalled and waiting. SWAPA is prepping for a strike, what about AMFA? Take WN down, show us the AMFA muscle.

 
Once again overspin no matter what you think of AMFA and even how the strike went down. It cannot be argued and I have stated this several times on these boards. NO AMT in the iam or twu would even be breaking 30 dollars and hour if it were not for AMFA at NW and our contract and I at big purple being non-union would not be making 52 dollars if it were not for AMFA at NW. The end result was bad for us but then again it wasn't all AMFA's fault. A lot of things came together to hurt us in that strike. The company was hell bent on breaking AMFA and was prepared to spend what it took to do it. The FAA turned a blind eye as well. So we lost the battle but the war still carries on it didnt take long for the likes of the iam and twu to drag the industry back down to the bottom. If I wanted to make ramp wages I would have never went and got my A@P and the training to get where I am today and the iam continued to keep us at ramp and agent wages even in the best times in aviation history thats why we tossed their ass to the street as most all other airlines AMT's did eventually except UsAir ( who was the lowest paid AMT's by the way) now merged with AA and the twu (the second worst paid AMT's in salary and benefits). Yeah I see a real chance for an industry leading contract coming from you guys Overspin NOT!! History is not your side here. Will be interesting to see just what POS you do come up with.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Lineguy43
 
It just demonstrates how ineffective our representation has been, not a promotion of AMFA.  Anything we get in this next contract is not a win.  We are only getting back what we gave up which will be miniscule in comparison to our concessions. Do not be fools into thinking that the company will not get something for anything we get. They always put the good stuff up first and the bad stuff at the very end and then vote.

 

[Overspeed]

1AA,
It was the IBT who got the big raise for the WN AMTs before AMFA got in. AMFA has only extended the existing CBA several times with slight modifications while WN was making money and everyone else was filing BK. Now they actually have to do what the TWU, IBT, and IAM have been doing for years. Negotiate with a company that says no to everything. If AMFA is the way to a better contract in a tough negotiating environment stop blaming others for your failures, show us. Let's see those professional negotiators perform and see what they can do. So far they are no better off than the industrial unions on the property. Stonewalled and waiting. SWAPA is prepping for a strike, what about AMFA? Take WN down, show us the AMFA muscle.
 
 
 
 
Overspun wrong again...... you must enjoy being corrected all the time.  This is testing your credibiity of posting information
 
NEW YORK TIMES   2005


Mr. Delle-Femine returned to the big leagues in 1998 when 10,000 mechanics at Northwest left the machinists and joined his union.
"The mechanics have always been a minority in these industrial unions," he said. "They want their own union, and that's why they're attracted to us."
In 2001, he negotiated a 37 percent raise for Northwest's mechanics, making them the highest paid in the industry. Mechanics earn an average of just over $36 an hour; 
 
 
AMFA was making $36 dollars an hour 14 years ago, we are making $36.50 now!

Yes. In good times AMFA got a good raise then oversaw the greatest amount of outsourcing of the AMT craft in history at NWA. 10,000? Down to 880. Great job Delle. Made it to the big leagues and got spanked. Tossed at UA. So AMFA got $36 in 2001 and gave all the jobs and the pay raise back 2004. And you're right, over 9000 AMTs and 1500 Title 2 are still earning between $31 and $36 compared to the AMFA mechanics at...oh wait they were first decimated in 2004 and DL didn't want them.

Correct me on what? That the IBT got the big raise and AMFA kept granting extensions? Sorry didn't see that in your post. Again AMFA show us the muscle. Show us how professional negotiiators do it AMFA. Let's see AMFA flex. Come on Chuck. Are they scared? Took three years to file for mediation. The way the mediation process goes it will be another two years before release. Not very professional.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Yes. In good times AMFA got a good raise then oversaw the greatest amount of outsourcing of the AMT craft in history at NWA. 10,000? Down to 880. Great job Delle. Made it to the big leagues and got spanked. Tossed at UA. So AMFA got $36 in 2001 and gave all the jobs and the pay raise back 2004. And you're right, over 9000 AMTs and 1500 Title 2 are still earning between $31 and $36 compared to the AMFA mechanics at...oh wait they were first decimated in 2004 and DL didn't want them.

Correct me on what? That the IBT got the big raise and AMFA kept granting extensions? Sorry didn't see that in your post. Again AMFA show us the muscle. Show us how professional negotiiators do it AMFA. Let's see AMFA flex. Come on Chuck. Are they scared? Took three years to file for mediation. The way the mediation process goes it will be another two years before release. Not very professional.

 
 
In good times or bad times the TWU ATD found a way to solicit concessions in negotiations.
 
what muscle has the TWU ATD, AFL/CIO ,TTD, C.O.P.E. done for our careers?
The TWU has had all the muscle (self proclaimed)  and what did we get in return?.......concessions?
It was all talk!!!
 
The TWU ATD has lowered the bar so low that AMFA and Teamsters are faced with trying to bargain higher with our great concessions.
 
SWA lead the industry for years and now you want to blame them for the concessionary environment we created?
 
come on overspun, you can not be that foolish!

 

[Overspeed]

Chuck,
Southwest did not lead the industry for years. They lagged behind up through the 90s I believe but once explosive growth started the IBT went after them and rightfully so. Pull up the AMFA agreements, they are all three year extensions with minor tweaks to work rules and outsourcing caps.
 
You brought up what a great job AMFA did at NWA. They did once during good times and we got the higher. That's how it works. But then I pointed out what happened when times get rough. AS shutdown the OAK overhaul facility that was in-house under the IBT, UA members had enough of AMFA lies and went IBT, and at NWA they fought to the death and they got killed. Again, where is the AMFA muscle? It doesn't exist, it's a myth. We see that at Southwest. AMFA waited three years to file for mediation. Look at us, United, and US. The NMB does not spend less then three years in mediation before even considering release. Little was told that by the mediator that he had no intention of allowing a release for a long time. Instead he was going to slow down the sessions. Which is what is happening at UA/CO. The mediator said he wasn't going to start stretching out the timing of sessions to let the parties think about what they are doing. So given that AMFA waited so long means that the potential for a strike is about three years off. Think the AA/TWU negotiations were long?
 
Chuck AMFA's dead at AA. The IAM members aren't interested and now we have added 4,000 plus to our rank and file. AMFA Local 11 even made a motion to financially support a drive here and their members voted no. AMFA's done, kaput, DOA at AA.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Here is a list of Unions (i.e. all fictitious ) JSOA,BCUS,NOAP,ect.......ect.....
 
All have equal chance of getting nothing.
Why? because we have nothing to leverage!!!
 
NOTHING!!!

 

[Birdman]

Yes. In good times AMFA got a good raise then oversaw the greatest amount of outsourcing of the AMT craft in history at NWA. 10,000? Down to 880.

Isn't it ironic, I worked with a gentleman who was a former NWA mechanic that went through the turmoil u speak of, and who by the way was honored to work for another company represented by AMFA. Guess who the 700+ who scabed were loyal to? Your ASSociation IAM counterpart. I consider it a privilege to work with a true unionist, unlike yourself who would rather ignorantly exploit and revel in the shattered lives of those who stuck together, struck NW, and retained their dignity. Your a shameless scab loving twit.

 

[Vortilon]

Chuck,
Southwest did not lead the industry for years. They lagged behind up through the 90s I believe but once explosive growth started the IBT went after them and rightfully so. Pull up the AMFA agreements, they are all three year extensions with minor tweaks to work rules and outsourcing caps.
 
You brought up what a great job AMFA did at NWA. They did once during good times and we got the higher. That's how it works. But then I pointed out what happened when times get rough. AS shutdown the OAK overhaul facility that was in-house under the IBT, UA members had enough of AMFA lies and went IBT, and at NWA they fought to the death and they got killed. Again, where is the AMFA muscle? It doesn't exist, it's a myth. We see that at Southwest. AMFA waited three years to file for mediation. Look at us, United, and US. The NMB does not spend less then three years in mediation before even considering release. Little was told that by the mediator that he had no intention of allowing a release for a long time. Instead he was going to slow down the sessions. Which is what is happening at UA/CO. The mediator said he wasn't going to start stretching out the timing of sessions to let the parties think about what they are doing. So given that AMFA waited so long means that the potential for a strike is about three years off. Think the AA/TWU negotiations were long?
 
Chuck AMFA's dead at AA. The IAM members aren't interested and now we have added 4,000 plus to our rank and file. AMFA Local 11 even made a motion to financially support a drive here and their members voted no. AMFA's done, kaput, DOA at AA.

 
You don't have a clue as to what you're posting about.  All it would take is line AMTs to outnumber overhaul yes voter types, and the way things are looking - we are getting there.  Then add in the future shortcomings of the association, and new members will sign cards in droves.  Just a matter of time.  AMFA is still sitting on around 7000 cards, so don't get too cocky. 
 
You would get thrown out of most Line AMT breakrooms for talking smack about the AMFA.  We still haven't forgot what you and your TWU heros did to us.

 

[dfw gen]

1.9 BILLION DOLLAR profit. And still under a bankruptcy contract. F*** you twu and iam you suck.

 

[MetalMover]

1.9 BILLION DOLLAR profit. And still under a bankruptcy contract. F*** you twu and iam you suck.

We need to demand that they give us updates at the end of every session with both the ASSociation and the company. I want to know EVERY article discussed and where each side stands. I am tired of waiting until a TA is posted only to find out that when the actual contract is printed, there are so many "THEY CAN DO THAT, BROTHERS" in there. 
This should not be so hard to do considering the information age we live in.