Negotiations........why?

[chilokie1]

This industry is a monkey see, monkey do. If you think we are going to get a jcba anytime soon your dreaming. Both groups have contracts in place for the next 3 to 4 years. The company is making money. We are one company to be in October. No more worries on the unions part about representational elections and the threat of AMFA. The Association is safe for at least the next 3 years. Dues are flowing and the company is making money. Look at UAL negotiations with the AMT'S and the flight attendants. They still do not have a JCBA. What's the rush? We have no backing in negotiations from our unions and the NMB. The odds are against us. Remember the promised vote for the association? More union lies. So if you want updates what makes you think they are telling us the truth? The association got what they wanted and now we get screwed again. Business as usual. I hope no one is surprised or expecting something good out of this association. Get your house in order because that Brinks truck won't be stopping by your house anytime soon.

 
I tend to agree with you 1AA it may be a while, I think it is time for the TWU to think about getting serious about 
monitoring our present contract work-scope compliance. If it is true the first A319's have already seen their first
maintenance checks in Mobile and work goes away through MD80 retirement on a daily basis its imperative to keep
accurate contract compliance. No matter what AA has planned for future of OH, by making sure the present contract is 
being followed it will keep them from dragging their feet.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 
Your concern was was for your own employment and your pension. There was no sacrifice, only self preservation and a reaction to fear. 
 
 
 
.

You got this one wrong LaLi.  Chuck was elected to a union position and so he saw things most of the rest of us didn't.  He also fought hard against the international and was very adamant that we vote no.  He was never concerned about his own well being but was thinking about how this stuff would affect the whole membership.  Jim Little and his minions sold the fear to the membership and Chuck was very outspoken about it.  Bob Owens also.  Maybe you were speaking in general terms but I could not let this one pass if anyone would think Chuck was concerned about anything but preserving the pay and benefits of the profession.  The fear that was spread by Little and the koolaid drinkers convinced many to vote yes.  Chuck fought hard to try to convince everyone otherwise.  He is the kind of person we need to represent us but he will no longer have anything to do with the TWU.  Bob Owens is trying to change the way of thinking of the membership because he cannot change the way the TWU operates.  I have known Chuck and talked to him and I promise you he is genuine and would not sell his fellow AMTs out like others did.  He's one of the good ones and if we had some like Chuck and Bob Owens in our international we would not have to worry about being sold out.

 

[Overspeed]

OldGuy@AA,
While I strongly disagree with you I think we will know now if his, Bob's, and other anti-Int'l people will be able to deliver on their agenda. They are now running one of the largest voting blocks in the Association along with Pike at 567. I am excited and hopeful that they can convince the membership that we can get UPS wages and more work in-house or at least maintain what we have. The hard part will be working through a process with the NMB (which has shown no interest in letting unions go to self-help), a traveling public that is angry that airfares are not dropping with decreasing fuel prices, a DOJ that is investigating airlines for price fixing, and shareholders who want lower labor costs so they can increase their share value. It is going to be a long uphill battle.
 
Good luck to them and all of us.

 

[Real tired]

5L,
A sobering but truthful assessment of the last 12 years and the current situation.

I also agree.  

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You got this one wrong LaLi.  Chuck was elected to a union position and so he saw things most of the rest of us didn't.  He also fought hard against the international and was very adamant that we vote no.  He was never concerned about his own well being but was thinking about how this stuff would affect the whole membership.  Jim Little and his minions sold the fear to the membership and Chuck was very outspoken about it.  Bob Owens also.  Maybe you were speaking in general terms but I could not let this one pass if anyone would think Chuck was concerned about anything but preserving the pay and benefits of the profession.  The fear that was spread by Little and the koolaid drinkers convinced many to vote yes.  Chuck fought hard to try to convince everyone otherwise.  He is the kind of person we need to represent us but he will no longer have anything to do with the TWU.  Bob Owens is trying to change the way of thinking of the membership because he cannot change the way the TWU operates.  I have known Chuck and talked to him and I promise you he is genuine and would not sell his fellow AMTs out like others did.  He's one of the good ones and if we had some like Chuck and Bob Owens in our international we would not have to worry about being sold out.

I believe you.
 
I was speaking in general terms mostly but I do think Chuck needs to stop using the word give when it comes to contract negotiations. Give denotes dependency and weakness. You can't negotiate a favorable contract from a position of dependency and weakness. 
 

Bob Owens is trying to change the way of thinking of the membership because he cannot change the way the TWU operates. 

You pretty much supported my stance here. It does not matter if Bob and Chuck are good guys because they "cannot change the way the TWU operates", which of course brings us back to the point of my post.
 

If you want power you need a UNION that YOU control and be willing to strike despite the risk of job termination.

The fact is the membership has no power because they gave up their voice. They have allowed the international to speak for them but not answer to them. That is the one thing that will absolutely break a UNION.
 
Couple that with a government that refuses you your right to strike.
 
I was not attacking Chuck. In fact, I think if he replied he would probably agree with a lot of what I said.

 

[Buck]

OldGuy@AA,
While I strongly disagree with you I think we will know now if his, Bob's, and other anti-Int'l people will be able to deliver on their agenda. They are now running one of the largest voting blocks in the Association along with Pike at 567. I am excited and hopeful that they can convince the membership that we can get UPS wages and more work in-house or at least maintain what we have. The hard part will be working through a process with the NMB (which has shown no interest in letting unions go to self-help), a traveling public that is angry that airfares are not dropping with decreasing fuel prices, a DOJ that is investigating airlines for price fixing, and shareholders who want lower labor costs so they can increase their share value. It is going to be a long uphill battle.
 
Good luck to them and all of us.

Running a large voting block really means little when the the strength of the organization is at it's Constitutional Convention.
 
Within this Association, you have admitted that the IAM has a two year control . Please explain how this is not controlling the TWU itself?
 
I guess when the contract is made we will see equality across the board. Same pay, same benefits, same work rules, right?
 
Will the outsourcing of the work at TUL cause any problems at the IAM stations?
 
What are the answers?

 

[Realityck]

OldGuy@AA,
While I strongly disagree with you I think we will know now if his, Bob's, and other anti-Int'l people will be able to deliver on their agenda. They are now running one of the largest voting blocks in the Association along with Pike at 567. I am excited and hopeful that they can convince the membership that we can get UPS wages and more work in-house or at least maintain what we have. The hard part will be working through a process with the NMB (which has shown no interest in letting unions go to self-help), a traveling public that is angry that airfares are not dropping with decreasing fuel prices, a DOJ that is investigating airlines for price fixing, and shareholders who want lower labor costs so they can increase their share value. It is going to be a long uphill battle.
 
Good luck to them and all of us.

 
 
 
The immediate issue is to what extant can the TWU Contract provisions be reconciled with the IAM Contract provisions in the fairest and most expedient way to both parties. The inability to do that will put us on the same path as the USAir and America West Pilots experienced. Years of frustration with no resolution that served to bring both Union groups together, so they could mutually deal with a Management who took advantage of the opportunity given them by the Unions fighting each other.
 
TWU members have elected Local Presidents who are on the Negotiating Committee, and represent the majority of members in most Title groups. Members, whether TWU or IAM, have the same career goals & aspirations. There is no doubt it will take a lot of common sense and leadership on both sides to find the most appropriate solutions, and adjustments will have to be made. However, a divided work force will not get us the contract we’ve all earned and deserve.
 
We’re all focused on correcting the inadequacies in our current agreements and the Negotiating Committee knows that. But anyone one who believes we can rush the process and not give our Committee Members at least a reasonable opportunity to achieve that goal may find themselves with a less than acceptable agreement. 

 

[Overspeed]

Buck,
If a TA comes out 591 and 567 control more votes than all of TUL. Now if the IAM contingent and 514 link up then whatever the 567 and 591 group want can be shutdown. Unless 591 video king Bob can make enough videos to sway maybe 30% of the IAM membership to go the 567/591 way. We will see.

 

[Buck]

Buck,
If a TA comes out 591 and 567 control more votes than all of TUL. Now if the IAM contingent and 514 link up then whatever the 567 and 591 group want can be shutdown. Unless 591 video king Bob can make enough videos to sway maybe 30% of the IAM membership to go the 567/591 way. We will see.

And if the Pro-AMFA AMT's, Line or Overhaul side with anyone then what? 

 

[Chuck Schalk]

La li lu le lo:
 
No Offense taken, you had a constructive opinion that i understand as well.  My intent is that as long as the associtaion owns the contract we are only pawns the game.
 
 
overspun keeps spewing that local 591 has full control of everything.  You all thought we had control in 1995,2003,and 2012 and you see how much the TWU ATD got involved in the contract voting process to push the vote the way they wanted it to go. I am not convinced that this negotiation is any different. I beleive the contract is done and waiting on TWU/IAM to work out seniority issues and we will have a vote shortly after that with a contract that has been sitting on the desk. 
 
What ever increase in compensation we get is already been factored in. Parker has well established this. I am sure the twu will take credit for that even though it is already a given.
 
so the question is:   If our compensation is already done, what do we have to negotiate with the company?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

No Offense taken, you had a constructive opinion that i understand as well. 

Thank you.
 

so the question is:   If our compensation is already done, what do we have to negotiate with the company?

The best stall tactics.

 

[bob@las-AA]

View attachment 10963
 
This is how things work.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

This is how things work.

You forgot the government. 

 

[bob@las-AA]

@La Li,.... good point, I'll just say that the government made the pic to help us better understand the way life is.
 
 
I get what Chucky is saying, the need for negotiations is in part to a large degree is just another reason to have a large party for just the fore mentioned names on our dues money. I'm fleet so I can almost guess what our next TA will look like.
I don't agree with Chucky's message that conveys a "Occupy Wall Street" brand of thinking.
 
Everyone whats change, then head to our nations capital, and find a sympathetic lobbyist for the cause.  

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Everyone whats change, then head to our nations capital, and find a sympathetic lobbyist for the cause.  

Sympathetic lobbyist are expensive.