Negotiations........why?

[CMH_GSE]

767 mechanic,
MCIE didn't shutdown because the work was outsourced to another company. That work went away because the merged AA/TWA fleet was over 800 aircraft and shrunk to below 625 by that time. Any one who can do basic math should understand that fewer planes takes fewer people to work on them. Therefore a base closed and people were laid off.
 
Again, the point is when swamt comes over here throwing had grenades at how long it will take for a CBA to get done with the Association his AMFA has plenty of hard work to do over there. AMFA is not getting any further along with Southwest management than the TWU who represents the ground workers. The FAs got something but lets see if they are comfortable with their deal.
 
Now as far as here, the Association is unproven. I am ready to see what they can do given they have a great bargaining position. An airline who has more money than they know what to do with, a good economy, a low wage base compared to the rest of the industry, and a CEO who has shown a willingness to open the company coffers. It is taking frustratingly long however there was a lot of infighting going on plus a challenge by pro-AMFA organizers that slowed the approval process.

Just to clarify, there are a number of us that are just anti- association, not pro amfa.
Mostly because, we did not get a membership vote on our current representation.
It's difficult to get behind something you view as illegal.

Now, they have the gig, show us what you got.
If they get us the DL+7, and I get to:
A. Keep my job at my current station
B. Keep my matching 401k and see it moved to a "contribution" same as the FAs- 9.9%
C. Not forced into the IAMNPF, ever...
D. Get back vacation, sick days, holidays, 2X holiday pay, 2X overtime
E. Retro pay back to the same date the pilots got theirs in January.

Do all of that, and I'll be so pro association, you won't be able to tell me from 700

 

[700UW]

Just released today with their other news on load factors. Don't worry it won't affect you anyway.

Dont be so sure about that.

 

[Overspeed]

Just to clarify, there are a number of us that are just anti- association, not pro amfa.
Mostly because, we did not get a membership vote on our current representation.
It's difficult to get behind something you view as illegal.
Now, they have the gig, show us what you got.
If they get us the DL+7, and I get to:
A. Keep my job at my current station
B. Keep my matching 401k and see it moved to a "contribution" same as the FAs- 9.9%
C. Not forced into the IAMNPF, ever...
D. Get back vacation, sick days, holidays, 2X holiday pay, 2X overtime
E. Retro pay back to the same date the pilots got theirs in January.
Do all of that, and I'll be so pro association, you won't be able to tell me from 700

Like all your asks. I am thinking when you say all your SK days you are including full pay all days too. I don't think we will get forced in to the IAMNPF, just given the option. The existing frozen benefits stay where they are I understand.

 

[700UW]

And the FAs getting 9% is temporary

 

[CMH_GSE]

And the FAs getting 9% is temporary

Its actually 9.9% It's for 5 yrs if you are 50 or over, then goes back to a 5.5% match

That basically covers all of us, and it so kicks ass over any IAMNPF option for all of the 50 and overs.

I guarantee you, if they put it to a membership vote over just that one issue:

What do you prefer,
IAMNPF as it currently stands
Or
401k with FAs language
The vote will be overwhelming for the 401

 

[700UW]

And yet a 401k is not guaranteed and you use your own money to fund the majority of it.
 
And you do realize the man who designed the 401k has stated its not suppose to be your primary retirement source of income.

 

[CMH_GSE]

And here it is folks,
The opening salvo from the Ass on how much smarter they are than u are on this pension thingy.

They will dress up the IAMNPF to make it look as pretty as they can, then they will shuv it right up our asses.


Just give me a choice , individually, not on a TA.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Like all your asks. I am thinking when you say all your SK days you are including full pay all days too. I don't think we will get forced in to the IAMNPF, just given the option. The existing frozen benefits stay where they are I understand.

O, the whole point of my post is this,

DL +7 is already baked in, we would have gotten that already with NO Union.
So any retro that doesn't go back to when he gave it to the pilots and FAs is a FAILURE.
If a number of us Lose our jobs, again , it's a FAILURE.
If we don't get back most of what we gave up in vacation, holidays, pay and OT pay, it's a FAILURE.
If we don't get to keep our 401k and have it enhanced, it's a FAILURE.

 

[Rogallo]

Prepare for failure!

 

[Buck]

And yet a 401k is not guaranteed and you use your own money to fund the majority of it.
 
And you do realize the man who designed the 401k has stated its not suppose to be your primary retirement source of income.

Don't be so foolish, the money for your 401k is a part of your full compensation. Pensions are dangerous when airlines go into bankruptcy.
The pension is frozen and I was happy to have it, however at American of the past the company position concerning compensation was a lower wage with a healthy pension. Now that the pension is no more the employees at the new American Airlines are happy to save there own money and to be given something that is the norm in the industry. The matching may be low for the mechanics now, but the Association will fix that. Pension were also funded vehicles. 

 

[700UW]

And when the market tanked who made up the losses in the 401k?

Just like people who lost their airline stock in their 401k, who made up those losses?

A 401k was not designed nor developed to be your retirement money.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

And yet a 401k is not guaranteed and you use your own money to fund the majority of it.
 
And you do realize the man who designed the 401k has stated its not suppose to be your primary retirement source of income.

 
Tired red herring arguments
 
The money to fund the 401k or the IAMNPF comes from the membership via negotiations - whether the company takes it and puts it in a pension or a 401k its all still calculated from your overall compensation package.
 
A pension is no more guaranteed than a 401k, and at least with a 401k the individual controls the investment selections and can exit those selection as he or she sees fit - not have to sit by and HOPE someone in the pension fund does it. 
 
Add to it the new laws allowing draconian cuts to underfunded multi employer pension plans in case of potential default - NO THANK YOU

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

And when the market tanked who made up the losses in the 401k?

Just like people who lost their airline stock in their 401k, who made up those losses?

A 401k was not designed nor developed to be your retirement money.

 
The market affects pensions just as it does 401ks
 
Additionally multi employer pensions have the potential to be crippled by pull outs from other parties regardless of the performance of the market.

 

[Kev3188]

I've said it before, but in the end a 401k means more worker empowerment. The money is in your account now, you can do what you want with it now, and the threat of losing previous contributions can't be held over your head.

The goal should be higher matching and contributions both...

 

[CMH_GSE]

700, a few questions for you on the IAMNPF.

We already had a pretty important question answered earlier, who runs it?
Not JP Morgan, or Fidelity, you know, fund proffesionals.
It's run by a life long IAM member, yay.

When the market tanks and its balance falls, because even pensions are invested in the market, does the compensation stay the same, always, under ANY condition?

If the IAM ever should get voted off the property, what happens to the pensions for the current members? Do they keep what they accrue, or does it go into the black hole, never to be recovered?