Mechanics to get Hose Again!

[bagsmasher]

Hopeful writes:
"Bags, you have major issues with mechanics, let alone the TWA deal. What worries you most is the days of your riding on the coattails of the mechanics are OVER. It will soon be time to negoatiate on your own merits and worth. THAT'S WHAT SCARES THE LIVING HELL OUT OF YOU! What are you gonna tell the company at negotiations, "WE ARE THE BEST DAMN BAG TOSSERS IN THE INDUSTRY, WHERE IS OUR $25.00/HR?" The party's over, bagsy boy! The low cost carriers pay their mechanics just about what AA mechanics make. I doubt Jetblue and Southwest pays their baggage technicians what you make.

By the, BAGSYBOY, we don't need an office with secretaries and perks, our offices are the aircraft we keep airworthy. A decent salary is the only perk we need!"



This shows what you know. Southwest pays their ramp just as much as AA does, and they are represented by the TWU. AA currently pays $22.71. WN also pays their mechanics about the same as AA, but only has about 1400 mechanics since they contract out their heavy maintenance.

I have no problem with mechanics or their pay. I do have a problem with ANYONE who thinks they are somehow superior though.

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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On 2/9/2003 8:16:44 PM j7915 wrote:

Would you please show me where I have ever indicated that I want to dumb down the profession. Do you want to spend your days grinding parts for the welders, or would you rather use your skills as a welder? I simply think AMFA is encouraging companies to shed lower skilled jobs.

Reminds me of why the Kremlin hospital was not the best one in town: the soviet leadership wanted Doctors to give the injections, so the doctors were have their experience level and reputation dumbed down.

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[/blockquote]
Now it is the Democrats who only want to give the working man $600 and the Republican who wants to give more. Any time my income tax bracket is lowered I win.

I already showed you where you not only indicated but advocate the dumbing down the profession of the A&P mechanic. You advocate through your continued support of the multi-scaled compensation system. And you would rather work as an A&P than a Parts Washer, which is in the same Title group. And AA and it's lapdog union will keep as many low paid mechanics on as long as the dues keep rolling in. Why is it you never answer the farm out percentage question with documentation? You claim that AMFA farms everything out, yet you have no clue what is really farmed out at AA.

You seem to be well versed in the activities of the Communist Party.

 

[j7915]

[blockquote]
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On 2/9/2003 7:07:22 PM RV4 wrote:

J7915,


I noticed you failed to provide us with your solutions.


Instead in typical industrial union fashion headed right back to politics searching for someone else to blame.


Are you as big of advocate of voting yes on concessions as you have been for dumbing down the profession in exchange for jobs? I bet we could ALL agree to work for $10 per hour and everyone would avoid layoffs. You favor that too?


BTW, the tax relief package proposed by the evil Republican President is not being held up by other evil Republicans. It is your working man's party that wants to keep your wallet in Washington. That evil man did get you a $600.00 rebate check, NOT ENOUGH, call your democrat dogs off and you might get some of your money back.


Does anybody know why every thread on this board gets off topic? Is it because stupid sheep are incapable of finding the "NEW TOPIC" button?
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[/blockquote]

Gee you post an elephant or a poster of the NRA and wonder why every thread goes off topic.

As I recall it was you who mentioned that Dubya's "reduce taxes for the rich plan" was being held up in Congress. If those $600 bought your support for the GOP, then the prosperity of the Demo/Clinton years should have bought them your eternal support. Let's face it you are a cheap vote.

Would you please show me where I have ever indicated that I want to dumb down the profession. Do you want to spend your days grinding parts for the welders, or would you rather use your skills as a welder? I simply think AMFA is encouraging companies to shed lower skilled jobs.

Reminds me of why the Kremlin hospital was not the best one in town: the soviet leadership wanted Doctors to give the injections, so the doctors were have their experience level and reputation dumbed down.

 

[RV4]

[blockquote]
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On 2/9/2003 8:16:44 PM j7915 wrote:

Gee you post an elephant or a poster of the NRA and wonder why every thread goes off topic.

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[/blockquote]

IT IS ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSE WHO IS TO BLAME! Very Good Mr. Richards

 

[Hopeful]

Ok bags, how about pulling up JETBLUE's ramp wages?

 

[bagsmasher]

So we have to compare ourselves to a start up airline for you to prove your point? I have no idea what they make. They have only been a publicly traded company since April. Their ramp is not unionized, yet. In time they will be, and they will have to pay wages in line with the rest of the carriers, if they aren't already.

You tell me, what does JetBlue pay their ramp? Does anyone even care?

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

[blockquote]
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On 2/9/2003 10:36:12 PM Hopeful wrote:

Ok bags, how about pulling up JETBLUE's ramp wages?
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[/blockquote]


Starting AA FSC pay - $9.27
Starting jetblue FSC pay - $10.85

AA FSC gets contract raises on seniority date,jetblue FSC gets yearly performance evaluation raise and 13% profit sharing if what I'm hearing from the jetblue guy I bowl with can be believed.

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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On 2/9/2003 1151 PM bagsmasher wrote:

So we have to compare ourselves to a start up airline for you to prove your point? I have no idea what they make. They have only been a publicly traded company since April. Their ramp is not unionized, yet. In time they will be, and they will have to pay wages in line with the rest of the carriers, if they aren't already.

You tell me, what does JetBlue pay their ramp? Does anyone even care?
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[/blockquote]
So if that is the case, then it has no bearing for the mechanics if Southwest farms out its heavy maintenance.

 

[Hopeful]

Well, bags, you were so quick to post SWA's wages because they are on par with AA's. But JetBlue is a different story and now you ask what wages have to do with anything. The point is that AA wants wage and work rule concessions more along the order of JetBlue for all its employees. But they want SWA's operating structure but do not want to change their business model. I might think differently when I see Carty working on a trip helping out flight attendants and loading aircraft.

 

[AAmech]

[blockquote]
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On 2/9/2003 8:32:32 PM Buck wrote:

Why is it you never answer the farm out percentage question with documentation? You claim that AMFA farms everything out, yet you have no clue what is really farmed out at AA.


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[/blockquote]
Sometimes the Chutzpa on this board is unbelivable!! You don't need documentation to see that all heavy checks at AA are done IN-HOUSE. No outsourcing is permitted per our "weak sister" "lap dog" "docile" "Industrial Union" whatever you want to call them, TWU negotiated contract. The TWU is undeniably the best at keeping work "In-House"! On the flip side of the coin our "Craft Union" friends at AMFA are notorious for "giving away the farm" on Farmouts in their CBAs! Alaska and NW (now WN Too) are well known for shipping out work to low-paid, Non-union and prefeably foreign repair stations.

 

[bagsmasher]

"Well, bags, you were so quick to post SWA's wages because they are on par with AA's."

I was quick to post WN's rates because I knew where to find them. We are represented by the same union. And yes, I knew you were wrong, that they were on par with AA's. That was my point. Get it?



"But JetBlue is a different story and now you ask what wages have to do with anything."


Yes JetBlue is a different story because I have no idea where to find their rates of pay. They are probably not published seeing as they are not union. I ask what do JetBlue's wages have to do with it? We can't compare them if we don't know them now can we?



"The point is that AA wants wage and work rule concessions more along the order of JetBlue for all its employees."


Where do you come up with that load of crap? I've never heard anyone at AA comparing us to JetBlue.



"But they want SWA's operating structure but do not want to change their business model. I might think differently when I see Carty working on a trip helping out flight attendants and loading aircraft"



This is true, they do not want to change their business model. They believe that given the choice, the majority of fliers would rather fly AA over WN, and that eventually AA will be able to get it's revenue premium back where it needs to be.
That stuff about Neelman out loading aircraft, and helping F/A's is all PR. I would rather see Carty in his office trying to figure out how to get us out of this mess.

 

[Buck]

Except for a major portion of the parts that support the heavy checks. Even the idea of the SRP/OSM classification could be considered an in house farm out, when referencing the labor cost to perform the work. But once again the dues machine is in action. Let's keep the dues flowing even at the devaluation of the profession.

 

[bagsmasher]

"Except for a major portion of the parts that support the heavy checks. Even the idea of the SRP/OSM classification could be considered an in house farm out, when referencing the labor cost to perform the work. But once again the dues machine is in action. Let's keep the dues flowing even at the devaluation of the profession."



I have no idea what planet you are living on, but our industry will have to get leaner to be competitve with WN and the likes. I guess you are saying that all those SRP/OSM's should actually be AMT jobs? Do you really need a A&P license to do the work in the paint/oven/slide/seat/floorboard/etc. shops? The answer is no, you do not. If we changed all those jobs to AMT's, AA's cost would skyrocket. This is not where this industry is heading with or without AMFA. If you hadn't heard already, most airlines are headed toward BK.

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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On 2/10/2003 1206 PM bagsmasher wrote:

"Except for a major portion of the parts that support the heavy checks. Even the idea of the SRP/OSM classification could be considered an in house farm out, when referencing the labor cost to perform the work. But once again the dues machine is in action. Let's keep the dues flowing even at the devaluation of the profession."



I have no idea what planet you are living on, but our industry will have to get leaner to be competitve with WN and the likes. I guess you are saying that all those SRP/OSM's should actually be AMT jobs? Do you really need a A&P license to do the work in the paint/oven/slide/seat/floorboard/etc. shops? The answer is no, you do not. If we changed all those jobs to AMT's, AA's cost would skyrocket. This is not where this industry is heading with or without AMFA. If you hadn't heard already, most airlines are headed toward BK.

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[/blockquote]
I am living on planet reality. Did our industry have to get leaner in 1995? That is when the SRP classification began. As for your excellent description of the jobs performed by SRP/OSM, those were AMT positions when they were given away by the TWU. So AA's cost must have fell dramatically when the SRP classification was negotiated? So if AA already had this massive cost savings, someone is lying about the condition of the company in comparasion to the rest of the industry. It must be their business plan? Yet the companies answer is to cut labor costs blatantly, again. AA has had a cost advantage in labor since 1983, when the B-scale was introduced. I am not sure but did the TWU also negotiate a B-scale for Fleet Service? Labor at AA has been giving concessions since 1983. If you really believe that labor is the problem than you need to loosen your corporate tie. AMFA has nothing to do with the labor costs at AA, except they forced the TWU and AA to match the wages negotiated at NWA.

 

[Hopeful]

Bagsmasher wrote:

"This is true, they do not want to change their business model. They believe that given the choice, the majority of fliers would rather fly AA over WN, and that eventually AA will be able to get it's revenue premium back where it needs to be.
That stuff about Neelman out loading aircraft, and helping F/A's is all PR. I would rather see Carty in his office trying to figure out how to get us out of this mess."





You're a riot, bags! Now you want Carty to stay in his office trying to figure out how to get us out of this mess!
The last time he left the office, he bought a bankrupt-bound airline. You do remember TWA, don't you bags? You know, the TWA deal that you can never forget!
Now all of a sudden you have faith in Carty to see us through these tough times!