Mechanics to get Hose Again!

[bagsmasher]

"You're a riot, bags! Now you want Carty to stay in his office trying to figure out how to get us out of this mess!"


Yes, that is his job. We don't need him loading bags or helping F/A's. He needs to figure out how to pull AMR out of this nosedive."


"The last time he left the office, he bought a bankrupt-bound airline."


Bankrupt-bound airline? TWA was in 2 BK's BEFORE AA figured out how to buy that failed carrier.


"You do remember TWA, don't you bags? You know, the TWA deal that you can never forget!"


How could I forget? At my station we get hit in the face with it every day.


"Now all of a sudden you have faith in Carty to see us through these tough times!"


How did you ever get that idea? I truely believe we are heading to BK court no matter what happens. We could be helped short term by UA going chapter 7.

 

[Buck]

I have never understood why the Mechanics and Fleet Service do not seperate?

 

[Hopeful]

Bags, Im sure Carty & Co. know exactly what they want to see changed to get us out of this mess. Question is, will the unions agree?

 

[410OhOne]

[blockquote]
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On 2/11/2003 10:38:22 AM Buck wrote:

I have never understood why the Mechanics and Fleet Service do not seperate?
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[/blockquote]
Because it is simple if a bagger or fleet service were to try to stand on their skills alone they would find themselves earning wages comparable to other unskilled labor in this country. Compare across the board the education requirements, the civilian and military work experience and you will see the value brought to the industry they serve.

AMFA may not be the answer, but a skilled trade union is. Plumbers, pipefitters, and carpenters are paid the wages they receive because they represent themselves as professional skilled trade workers and not leverage for the unskilled.

 

[rampguy]

[blockquote]
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On 2/13/2003 12:16:34 AM 410OhOne wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/11/2003 10:38:22 AM Buck wrote:

I have never understood why the Mechanics and Fleet Service do not seperate?
----------------
[/blockquote]
Because it is simple if a bagger or fleet service were to try to stand on their skills alone they would find themselves earning wages comparable to other unskilled labor in this country. Compare across the board the education requirements, the civilian and military work experience and you will see the value brought to the industry they serve.

AMFA may not be the answer, but a skilled trade union is. Plumbers, pipefitters, and carpenters are paid the wages they receive because they represent themselves as professional skilled trade workers and not leverage for the unskilled.
----------------
[/blockquote]


more garbage.
If that were true then this result would be evident at CO and DL where they are non union. SWA also paid well even while they had an in-house union.
I don't have a thing against the AMT group but if a few of you need to toot your own horn then don't do it by dismissing the rest of us as lesser humans not worthy of our paychecks. The pay is what it is because of the industry. I'm not in fleet svc anymore but by god they earn every cent they make working in those small bins. And if you think it is just loading bags then you live the life of a hermit because you haven't stepped out of the hangar to appreciate all the other people that work in other jobs. If you can't respect other work groups then they won't respect you. Believe it.

 

[Hopeful]

Hey rampguy,
When you were all cramped up in those cargo holds loading bags, did you ONCE have to put your name in the logbook? Did you ever sign for what you did? For the last 25 years, I have been belittled and berated by ramp service workers as being overpaid. For the last 25 years I have been told by union officials that we all pay the same price for a loaf of bread. For the last 25 years my worth and license pay has been voted on by workgroups that have nothing to do with my responsibilities. I'm not tooting my horn here, but the non-skilled faction of the airline workers need to understand the importance of the mechanic and what he/she is responsible for. I do not nor have I ever belittled anyone for the career path they chose. But the whole argument of compensating people for how physically difficult their job requirements are is not the way it is. If we did it that way, a pilot would make minimum wage.

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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On 2/13/2003 1:56:08 AM rampguy wrote:


more garbage.
If that were true then this result would be evident at CO and DL where they are non union. SWA also paid well even while they had an in-house union.
I don't have a thing against the AMT group but if a few of you need to toot your own horn then don't do it by dismissing the rest of us as lesser humans not worthy of our paychecks. The pay is what it is because of the industry. I'm not in fleet svc anymore but by god they earn every cent they make working in those small bins. And if you think it is just loading bags then you live the life of a hermit because you haven't stepped out of the hangar to appreciate all the other people that work in other jobs. If you can't respect other work groups then they won't respect you. Believe it.
----------------
[/blockquote]
If your job is as difficult as you state, then you should be able to negotiate a your contracts with out the mechanic becoming a burden? Get rid of these grease monkeys who have been holding your wages in check.

 

[Workingman]

The pay any mechanic gets is earned. How you ask. The answers are education, and knowledge, most school today require an associate degree that is two years of math and science, along with a course or two on repairing the aircraft itself. Another reason is accountably and resonsibility as signing your name for something you did and having the FAA to answer to. The mechanics should be in a union by themselves just as the mechanics at NWA, pilots, nurses, doctors, xray techs and teachers are, it is knowledge and education.
If you don't like what you make and want more go back to school and be a mechanic.

 

[Buck]

Rampers are drug tested!























When they crash into an aircraft..........

 

[AirLUVer]

Not sure about procedures with AA, but baggage loaders are liable to the FAA for giving accurate loads and distribution. Not sure who signs off on it. But baggage counts in the USAir Express crash last month and the Southwest Burbank runway over run have been both partly blamed on weight and balance issues.

There are many others in this company that are liable to the FAA in the event of an accident or incident. Not just pilots, dispatchers, or mechanics.

 

[Workingman]

[blockquote]
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On 2/13/2003 12:29:44 PM AirLUVer wrote:

Not sure about procedures with AA, but baggage loaders are liable to the FAA for giving accurate loads and distribution. Not sure who signs off on it. But baggage counts in the USAir Express crash last month and the Southwest Burbank runway over run have been both partly blamed on weight and balance issues.

There are many others in this company that are liable to the FAA in the event of an accident or incident. Not just pilots, dispatchers, or mechanics.
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[/blockquote]

My friend it boils down to education and knowledge and at least a 2yr degree. If a ramp worker wants mechanic wages go back to school. If a mechanic wants pilots pay it calls for more education and knowledge so go back to school. If a pilot wants his doctors pay go back to school. KNOWLEDGE AND EDUCATION Mechanics are professional just as a nurse with a 2yr degree is. The nurses are not in the same union as the housecleaning workers in a medical center. When the airlines treat their the professional people they hired as people who have an education and knowledge with at least a 2yr degree with the respect and wages they earned there will not be a need for unions any more. When the CEOs and upper level management act with integrity, and justice and stop trying to get it all for themselves there will not be a need for unions.

 

[Hopeful]

More responsiblility rests with the load agent TELLING the loaders where to put the cans. If rampers were that responsible to the Airwothiness of the aircraft, they would ALL be subject to random drug and alcohol testing.
They do not sign off on ANYTHING. Let's not put more worth on their shoulders than actually exists.

 

[rampguy]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/13/2003 6:48:32 AM Hopeful wrote:

Hey rampguy,
When you were all cramped up in those cargo holds loading bags, did you ONCE have to put your name in the logbook? Did you ever sign for what you did? For the last 25 years, I have been belittled and berated by ramp service workers as being overpaid. For the last 25 years I have been told by union officials that we all pay the same price for a loaf of bread. For the last 25 years my worth and license pay has been voted on by workgroups that have nothing to do with my responsibilities. I'm not tooting my horn here, but the non-skilled faction of the airline workers need to understand the importance of the mechanic and what he/she is responsible for. I do not nor have I ever belittled anyone for the career path they chose. But the whole argument of compensating people for how physically difficult their job requirements are is not the way it is. If we did it that way, a pilot would make minimum wage.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Actually, I have signed a log book. Deicing. Remember Air Florida. I do respect AMT's as individuals but don't think for a moment I have to take any crap from you because of your "status". If any ramp worker said you didn't earn your pay then they are as wrong as I think you are. Your reward for fixing and maintaining A/C's is personal satisfaction, not accolades from other work groups. Do your job and do it right and I will respect you as a co-worker, treat me with respect and I will respect you as a person.
BTW, my message wasn't about compensation based on physical demands. You just missed the whole point.

 

[rampguy]

[blockquote]
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On 2/13/2003 8:49:32 AM Buck wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/13/2003 1:56:08 AM rampguy wrote:


more garbage.
If that were true then this result would be evident at CO and DL where they are non union. SWA also paid well even while they had an in-house union.
I don't have a thing against the AMT group but if a few of you need to toot your own horn then don't do it by dismissing the rest of us as lesser humans not worthy of our paychecks. The pay is what it is because of the industry. I'm not in fleet svc anymore but by god they earn every cent they make working in those small bins. And if you think it is just loading bags then you live the life of a hermit because you haven't stepped out of the hangar to appreciate all the other people that work in other jobs. If you can't respect other work groups then they won't respect you. Believe it.
----------------
[/blockquote]
If your job is as difficult as you state, then you should be able to negotiate a your contracts with out the mechanic becoming a burden? Get rid of these grease monkeys who have been holding your wages in check.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Buck, I have absolutely no problem with you or any other AMT getting your own union. Read my past post and you will see I am all for it. You react as if I have an agenda against all AMT's when nothing is further from the truth. I just don't like a few AMT's thinking the rest of us should grovel for the meager crumbs left after the mechanics get their fill. And I don't call you grease monkey.

 

[Hopeful]

HOw can a deicer sign a logbook when the aircraft is buttoned up on the deicing pad and goes right to the taxiway. No one SIGNS a logbook after deicing. The statement that it has been accomplished is conveyed to the Captain on the headset. Don't give me that B.S. that you signed a logbook after deicing because it is not required. I work the line as an AMT and logbooks do not get signed after deicing.