Mainline 190 Pay

[767one]

Perfect sense.

Wonder if all the employees agree.

Toga,

Not meaning to sound demeaning to the other employees but the pilots have given more and longer than any other employee group. Not all but more than likely enough pilots both senior and junior are at the point where they would rather see this place gone before giving one more thing. Not a happy thought but I think we are at that point now.

Regards,


Bob

 

[700UW]

You also make more than any other group and work the least.

Every single work group at US unionized or non-union has given concessions multiple times since 1992.

You wont find any sympathy from other groups saying you gave up more.

Did you lose 46% of your coworkers due to layoff cause of outsourcing.

The more you make the more you give, so that argument wont fly.

 

[Phoenix]

You also make more than any other group and work the least.

Every single work group at US unionized or non-union has given concessions multiple times since 1992.

You wont find any sympathy from other groups saying you gave up more.

Did you lose 46% of your coworkers due to layoff cause of outsourcing.

The more you make the more you give, so that argument wont fly.

All the employee groups have given a lot and if they think they are willing to give more then its up to them. They don't need my opinion and I wouldn't presume to think they would change their mind if I told them their opinion was wrong.

 

[767one]

You also make more than any other group and work the least.

Every single work group at US unionized or non-union has given concessions multiple times since 1992.

You wont find any sympathy from other groups saying you gave up more.

Did you lose 46% of your coworkers due to layoff cause of outsourcing.

The more you make the more you give, so that argument wont fly.

700w,

Don't have the exact figures but due to outsourcing I think we come pretty close to 40 some percent job loss. Just to set the record straight I'm not looking for sympathy and as for pilots making more if it is such a cushy easy job I guess everybody would be a pilot. And as for working the least if you only count the hrs. that we fly you would be correct but the hrs. we fly are closer to half of the time we work. Just curious how many of the rest of the employees have a twelve to 14 hr day and get paid for as little as half of that?


Regards,


Bob

 

[nycbusdriver]

700w,

Don't have the exact figures but due to outsourcing I think we come pretty close to 40 some percent job loss. Just to set the record straight I'm not looking for sympathy and as for pilots making more if it is such a cushy easy job I guess everybody would be a pilot. And as for working the least if you only count the hrs. that we fly you would be correct but the hrs. we fly are closer to half of the time we work. Just curious how many of the rest of the employees have a twelve to 14 hr day and get paid for as little as half of that?


Regards,


Bob

Don't you go clouding their argument with facts, Bob.

They only want to hear from people who know that pilots only work 85 hours per month, when the reality is that pilots only get PAID for 85 hours per month while they work at least twice that many clock hours.

They only want to hear that pilots make $300,000 a year, when the reality is that the average airline pilot makes far, far south of $100,000 a year.

They only want to hear from folks who are extremely jealous of what is only their perception of what it takes to become and be an airline pilot. Of course, as you point out, if it's something that they so covet, then why didn't they become airline pilots?

 

[john john]

Don't you go clouding their argument with facts, Bob.

They only want to hear from people who know that pilots only work 85 hours per month, when the reality is that pilots only get PAID for 85 hours per month while they work at least twice that many clock hours.

They only want to hear that pilots make $300,000 a year, when the reality is that the average airline pilot makes far, far south of $100,000 a year.

They only want to hear from folks who are extremely jealous of what is only their perception of what it takes to become and be an airline pilot. Of course, as you point out, if it's something that they so covet, then why didn't they become airline pilots?

I agree 100% with what you said in spite of they’re self and the reality check management has put on the pilot profession. A downward adjustment has happen inside and out of the profession

 

[FWAAA]

Don't you go clouding their argument with facts, Bob.

They only want to hear from people who know that pilots only work 85 hours per month, when the reality is that pilots only get PAID for 85 hours per month while they work at least twice that many clock hours.

I agree with much of your post except for this part. You are equating "being at work" or "being away from home because of work or because you're at work" with actually "working," and everyone who's being honest knows that there's a world of difference between the two.

Pilots are "working" when they're flying the airplane. Sitting around between flights (which many pilots do a lot of) isn't actually "working." When mechanics or baggage handlers are sitting around the breakroom (not fixing airplanes or moving bags), they aren't actually "working." When FAs are sitting around between flights, they aren't actually "working." When self-important businessmen are watching the inflight movie on a long-haul plane, they aren't actually "working."

Some of the above get paid for the hours not spent working but spent at work or sitting around waiting before they work again, but that doesn't transform sitting around into "work."

Pilots get PAID for all the hours they fly plus all the hours they don't fly but for which their contract provides they get paid. You may be correct that these pilots only FLY 85 hours, but their paid hours may exceed their block hours.

Back to the topic of this thread: If US can't (or won't) pay its pilots at least as much money as jetBlue pays its pilots, those pilots owe it to themselves (and their families) to correct that imbalance.

 

[767one]

I agree with much of your post except for this part. You are equating "being at work" or "being away from home because of work or because you're at work" with actually "working," and everyone who's being honest knows that there's a world of difference between the two.

Pilots are "working" when they're flying the airplane. Sitting around between flights (which many pilots do a lot of) isn't actually "working." When mechanics or baggage handlers are sitting around the breakroom (not fixing airplanes or moving bags), they aren't actually "working." When FAs are sitting around between flights, they aren't actually "working." When self-important businessmen are watching the inflight movie on a long-haul plane, they aren't actually "working."

Some of the above get paid for the hours not spent working but spent at work or sitting around waiting before they work again, but that doesn't transform sitting around into "work."

Pilots get PAID for all the hours they fly plus all the hours they don't fly but for which their contract provides they get paid. You may be correct that these pilots only FLY 85 hours, but their paid hours may exceed their block hours.

Back to the topic of this thread: If US can't (or won't) pay its pilots at least as much money as jetBlue pays its pilots, those pilots owe it to themselves (and their families) to correct that imbalance.

While I agree 100% with what you state in the end of your post I still see some misconception about when we are being paid vs working. When the pilots show up at the aircraft they are working but not paid, same for preflight..working not paid. Cockpit preparation ....working not paid. The pay starts when all doors are closed and the parking brakes released.....if someone in an office doesn't change the times to screw the crew. After gate arrival working ...... not paid. Changing aircraft working.....not paid. I could go on with this all day but I think you get the drift. Pilots and flight attendants work a lot of time they are not paid for. Now there are occasions where duty rigs may pay a claim that will pay the crew for more that the actual flying time but claim time does not come to a significant amount. So bottom line is that the average pilot and flight attendant actually does work almost twice as many hr. as he/she is paid for.

Now you are right that we can get paid more than what our monthly max is for instance if the monthly max is 85 hrs. we can exceed that by 5 hr. WITH certain limitations. This in no way comes close to making up for all the time we are actually working but not getting paid. Lets try another example, the DUB 3 day intl. trip. This trip is a 3 day trip and it pays 14:25 period no extras except for the fine pubs. Add to that our meal money is based on the dollar and hasn't changed in years.

Now this may sound unreal to you but that's not unusal because 99.999% percent of the non-pilots in the world have no clue about what pilots and flight attendants really do.


Regards,


Bob

 

[signals]

I think ALL pilots are underpaid. Unfortunately the sad fact is that if you can find a pilot for $4 an hour, who would be crazy not to hire them? You can refuse to fly for the price offered, but I can bet that somebody from Mexico, Brazil, China, India, Africa, etc., will be more than happy to do it, because $55 is like $1000 an hour in their country.

Btw, it is an insult that B6 pilots make more than union labor. It also shows...and this is just my observation...that US's divided union issues are working to the sandcastle's full advantage!

So cry me a river and divide and conquer USelves

 

[767one]

I think ALL pilots are underpaid. Unfortunately the sad fact is that if you can find a pilot for $4 an hour, who would be crazy not to hire them? You can refuse to fly for the price offered, but I can bet that somebody from Mexico, Brazil, China, India, Africa, etc., will be more than happy to do it, because $55 is like $1000 an hour in their country.

Btw, it is an insult that B6 pilots make more than union labor. It also shows...and this is just my observation...that US's divided union issues are working to the sandcastle's full advantage!

So cry me a river and divide and conquer USelves

No crying here. I'm just trying to straighten out one of the major misconceptions about how we get paid. You would think that after more than 38 years I would just get used to people having no idea what this job is about but I will always take the time to explain. It'l sort of like urinating in a wet suit.....it doesn't accomplish much but it does give you a warm feeling all over!

Regards,


Bob

 

[700UW]

Dont you get per diem for the non-flight hours?

 

[Phoenix]

Dont you get per diem for the non-flight hours?

As someone pretty much already said...

...Who really cares....? Enough is, at long last, ENOUGH.

 

[767one]

Dont you get per diem for the non-flight hours?

Yes,
2$/hr. and with the Euro at as high as 1.47$ trust me per-diem is not income. The pound exchange rate is a lot worse.

Bob

 

[gabby]

Dont you get per diem for the non-flight hours?

I think you need to know what per diem is for before it can relate to flight hours.
Per Diem is supposed to take the place for our meals that we cannot make at home.
Many of us spend 20 days per month on the road living out of a suitcase. Food is expensive.
Worse when you have to eat at restaurants for a majority of your month. Most times i go
without breakfast or lunch just because the choices of healthy food is extremely limited.
Per Diem at PSA is 25% lower than what the federal goverment determined to be sufficient.
At our airline rampers/dispatch/schedulers/training dept/head office etc... all have fridges
in the break rooms. Pilots/Attendants do not.
Per Diem can also be taxed.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think ALL pilots are underpaid.

Well....not ALL pilots are underpaid.

I think FedEx and UPS pilots get a fair wage. And their customers never complain about a bumpy ride, a bad landing, no leg room, etc.