LUS/AA Below wing issues

[WeAAsles]

Do you think 15 people should come to work and work 1 flight a day and the rest of us work much harder for below market rates just to keep that 1 flight station open? What would you say is a fair amount of flights to keep a station open?

You could also take in the thought process of the more stations that are closed the more we're possibly being herded to slaughter? Easier to replace people if they're all in one place.

There has to be a balance.

 

[MetalMover]

It's called compromise.
Have you not learned anything from previous mergers, especially TWA?

What compromise was there? The TWA IAM was disolved and all their members became TWU and were now under TWU contracts. They got substantial pay increases and a generally better contract over all. As for the seniority issue, binding arbitration determined that. So you can't use the TWA takeover as an example of "compromise."

 

[MetalMover]

That's idiotic! One rule for everyone. Is this not a union shop where everyone should be afforded equal opportunities?
 
DOH solves everything. It's the no brainer.

Really? How about the fact that the IAM has job protection provisions in their contracts and the great TWU contracts had theirs removed? What do you think the JCBA will have ? Job PROTECTION only for PMUS employees?

This is just one example of the disparity and disagreement between the two unions.

 

[Albert]

While I also like DOH (That's what I'm used to) the IAM side likes it the way they currently do it.

MetalMover actually has the right idea and it's the same thing I've been saying. They continue to do it there way in their stations and we do it our way in ours. In those stations that were designated to change over to the opposite Union going with the other sides way of doing things affects the least amount of people systemwide.

Hell before the merger I never even considered working in CLT, PHX or PHL anyway. (And I'm still not)

At LUS  fleet when you become lead agent you take your fleet time with you, any other way they would have to hire lead agents off the street

 

[Albert]

You could also take in the thought process of the more stations that are closed the more we're possibly being herded to slaughter? Easier to replace people if they're all in one place.

There has to be a balance.

 Using that logic I guess anything can happen, but i wont lose sleep. So you draw the line at one flight?

 

[Real tired]

 
And I see your point. Nothing wrong with wanting to protect what you've got.
 
But here's my argument. I get laid off in Tulsa after working 20 years as a mechanic. There are currently 150 vacancies in DFW for full time FSC's. I put in for a 12m transfer for a FSC position in DFW. If I were to get it why should I be considered a "new hire" and put at the bottom of the seniority list? Because I've never done that job before? My 20 years of seniority is all but null and void except for vacation. Why should someones seniority be discriminated against for changing jobs? Sorry, I don't buy into the "new hire" mentality.
 
That, in my opinion, is not right, and anti-union.

You just brought up what I think is the biggest sticking point between our two groups.
 
First, it's not "anti-union".  Neither way of combining either occupational or classification seniority really is.
 
Second, I totally disagree with your argument.  I guess because our side "has never done it that way".
 
In my example, I get laid off in PIT with 20 years as a Mechanic.  There are 150 full time Fleet opening in PHL.  I put in for a 12m (?) transfer for My Fleet Service position in PHL.  When i get there I start out with 1 day of seniority.  In fact, I start my 90 day probationary period again.  Just like a new hire.
 
BUT........... I never lost any seniority in my former position as Mechanic.  In fact, it continues to accrue.  Now I have 2 different classification dates with one seniority date.  And in my position as Fleet, my seniority won me the right to choose vacation over the guy next to me with only 19 years.
 
And...... (another touchy subject) .....until American Airlines came along, I could have used my 20 years as a Mechanic, and now 1 day as a Fleet Agent, to commute, and to get on the flight back home to PIT from PHL.... AHEAD.... of the guy with 19 years in Fleet sitting next to me.
 
How do combine these issues going forward?

 

[WeAAsles]

Using that logic I guess anything can happen, but i wont lose sleep. So you draw the line at one flight?

I can't say where my line might be until I have something to read (In full) I have spent 18 years of my career in 2 hubs though. I just don't like the idea of being frightened every time contract time rolls around and wondering if the majority is going to force me to move. But that's me.

I know it says in the US contract that the 1 station formula is only until we get a JCBA. That language told me the intent of the company was not to agree to it remaining like that.

What numbers are wanted and what will be agreed to is the question?

 

[wings396]

And I see your point. Nothing wrong with wanting to protect what you've got.
 
But here's my argument. I get laid off in Tulsa after working 20 years as a mechanic. There are currently 150 vacancies in DFW for full time FSC's. I put in for a 12m transfer for a FSC position in DFW. If I were to get it why should I be considered a "new hire" and put at the bottom of the seniority list? Because I've never done that job before? My 20 years of seniority is all but null and void except for vacation. Why should someones seniority be discriminated against for changing jobs? Sorry, I don't buy into the "new hire" mentality.
 
That, in my opinion, is not right, and anti-union.

Let's flip the coin on your scenario, what if I've been a FSA for 10 years and went to school to get my A&P and wanted to come into the MTC classification? Would you or anyone else accept me with my 10 years of time as a mechanic? I wish that it was that way, because I had the opportunity at one point, but didn't want to lose my time in case of furloughs someday. Given the way that things have gone within the industry, I most likely would have ended up on the street. I had to make a difficult decision at the time just as you would today.

 

[Albert]

I can't say where my line might be until I have something to read (In full) I have spent 18 years of my career in 2 hubs though. I just don't like the idea of being frightened every time contract time rolls around and wondering if the majority is going to force me to move. But that's me.

I know it says in the US contract that the 1 station formula is only until we get a JCBA. That language told me the intent of the company was not to agree to it remaining like that.

What numbers are wanted and what will be agreed to is the question?

Thats why I was puzzled when they agreed to the one flight in the contract. Its going to be harder for the company to justify  moving from that. I would think the fact you chose to go to hubs your job would be more secure

 

[WeAAsles]

Thats why I was puzzled when they agreed to the one flight in the contract. Its going to be harder for the company to justify  moving from that. I would think the fact you chose to go to hubs your job would be more secure

I've always wanted to work in FLL but #1 they bust their butts there and #2 every time people went over they'd eventually end up back here in MIA. The old AA used to run away from all competitors in that airport.

On the closing and staffing language they "may" come up with something between the two languages? The UAL closings and all of those Delta Ready Reserves certainly don't help though.

The company will use terms like "Market Rate" and "Cost Analysis" to justify their position that they simply cannot afford to pay $26.50 per hour in those cities. If they can't make money or compete they'll eventually pull out. (The position they'll take)

 

[Albert]

I've always wanted to work in FLL but #1 they bust their butts there and #2 every time people went over they'd eventually end up back here in MIA. The old AA used to run away from all competitors in that airport.

On the closing and staffing language they "may" come up with something between the two languages? The UAL closings and all of those Delta Ready Reserves certainly don't help though.

The company will use terms like "Market Rate" and "Cost Analysis" to justify their position that they simply cannot afford to pay $26.50 per hour in those cities. If they can't make money or compete they'll eventually pull out. (The position they'll take)

If they come back with something like UA I would tell them to go scratch. Im LUS I never thought I would make $24.39  much less $26.50 so I could wait this out

 

[Albert]

I've always wanted to work in FLL but #1 they bust their butts there and #2 every time people went over they'd eventually end up back here in MIA. The old AA used to run away from all competitors in that airport.

On the closing and staffing language they "may" come up with something between the two languages? The UAL closings and all of those Delta Ready Reserves certainly don't help though.

The company will use terms like "Market Rate" and "Cost Analysis" to justify their position that they simply cannot afford to pay $26.50 per hour in those cities. If they can't make money or compete they'll eventually pull out. (The position they'll take)

We had a ready reserve program here at LUS it was unsuccessful for the most part

 

[Kev3188]

If they come back with something like UA I would tell them to go scratch.

As you should...

 

[WeAAsles]

If they come back with something like UA I would tell them to go scratch. Im LUS I never thought I would make $24.39  much less $26.50 so I could wait this out

I hear ya. It's a little more of a touchy subject for us on the LAA side. We were at $24 and change before our concessions in 03. 12 years ago now. I know even I'm a little antsy to get that 7% above dough. (Keeping my other eye on the details though)

But yea (I don't see it happening) if something ran across my desk that chopped the number of stations down like UA I'd also have to tell them to go pound sand. That's just cutting it way too close to the bone for my tastes.

 

[Rogallo]

Let's flip the coin on your scenario, what if I've been a FSA for 10 years and went to school to get my A&P and wanted to come into the MTC classification? Would you or anyone else accept me with my 10 years of time as a mechanic? I wish that it was that way, because I had the opportunity at one point, but didn't want to lose my time in case of furloughs someday. Given the way that things have gone within the industry, I most likely would have ended up on the street. I had to make a difficult decision at the time just as you would today.

 
Yes, I would. Why should you lose 10 years of seniority?