LUS/AA Below wing issues

[john john]

The UAL closings and all of those Delta Ready Reserves certainly don't help though.

Yep the United formula is coming up in CWA negotiations

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Yep the United formula is coming up in CWA negotiations

What is the United Formula?

 

[Albert]

What is the United Formula?

Keeping a few large cities staffed  with UA people and contracting out the rest

 

[Albert]

Yep the United formula is coming up in CWA negotiations

 Fleet has a contract till 2017 it would be rediculous for the company to even mention it in talks

 

[MetalMover]

Keeping a few large cities staffed  with UA people and contracting out the rest

Effective October, UAL pulling completely out of JFK and over to EWR. Apparently for them, JFK not worth it. Maybe something similar for PHL/JFK?

 

[MetalMover]

I can't say where my line might be until I have something to read (In full) I have spent 18 years of my career in 2 hubs though. I just don't like the idea of being frightened every time contract time rolls around and wondering if the majority is going to force me to move. But that's me.

I know it says in the US contract that the 1 station formula is only until we get a JCBA. That language told me the intent of the company was not to agree to it remaining like that.

What numbers are wanted and what will be agreed to is the question?

Good point. Just another reason while negotiations will probably drag on. The two unions have numerous differences to resolve, let alone agree on. Then wait for actual negotiations to begin. I can say with a great degree of certainty that the new management sees things in the current TWU agreements that they would love to keep and even enhance for their benefit over the current IAM agreements. After all, the TWU gave the company BK contracts long before actually going BK.

 

[WeAAsles]

Good point. Just another reason while negotiations will probably drag on. The two unions have numerous differences to resolve, let alone agree on. Then wait for actual negotiations to begin. I can say with a great degree of certainty that the new management sees things in the current TWU agreements that they would love to keep and even enhance for their benefit over the current IAM agreements. After all, the TWU gave the company BK contracts long before actually going BK.

And again to regurgitate so did the APA and APFA and ultimately the members of all 3 groups through a vote. That was after US and UAL went through BK court to FORCE cuts. Then US again. Then followed by DL and NWA on Sept 14, 2005 FORCING even deeper cuts then we had went through in 03.

Had we not given the cuts in 03 we certainly would have went through the BK process in 05 anyway as the BK laws were changing to make the process harder to go through for individuals and corporations. That would have I'm sure put our Pensions in the hands of the PBGC instead of where it is today that AA has to continue to fund it frozen with full payouts.

This conversation has and will continue to be beaten to death I'm sure though but the APA and APFA also agreed to the concessions and many posters on here have touted up how strong they are as Unions and yet they did the same thing as the TWU agreed to.

Oh and Fleet is meeting this week in DFW BTW.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yep the United formula is coming up in CWA negotiations

Monkey see, monkey do. Remember CAL when they merged with UAL had no Union for 30 years until they brought in the IBT and then the IAM. They had no Station Staffing language to work off of because they never brought back in a Union to get them a contract after 1983. Those people did it to themselves anyway. They voted down a contract that gave them less raises but more cities in exchange for more money and less stations. The members voted and I guess got what they wanted. 

I'd like to think we're not that stupid? Besides we had and still have language that protects our work and cities to continue working in.

That's the story that needs to be relayed back to the company whenever they want to bring it up.

Lorenzo took Continental into Chapter 11 bankruptcy on September 23, 1983, after unsuccessfully attempting to negotiate a lower pay rate with labor unions. Chapter 11 saved the company from liquidation, but required substantial reorganization, which began immediately. Following bankruptcy, Continental was freed of its contractual obligations and imposed a series of new labor agreements on its union workers, sharply reducing the airline's labor costs.[16] Continental became vastly more competitive with the new airline startups then emerging and thriving in the southwestern U.S., but employee attitudes and loyalty were adversely affected. By the end of 1984, Continental recorded a $50 million profit. Pilots went on strike in 1983, but were unsuccessful due to Continental pilots and new hires who crossed the picket line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Airlines
 

 

[MetalMover]

And again to regurgitate so did the APA and APFA and ultimately the members of all 3 groups through a vote. That was after US and UAL went through BK court to FORCE cuts. Then US again. Then followed by DL and NWA on Sept 14, 2005 FORCING even deeper cuts then we had went through in 03.

Had we not given the cuts in 03 we certainly would have went through the BK process in 05 anyway as the BK laws were changing to make the process harder to go through for individuals and corporations. That would have I'm sure put our Pensions in the hands of the PBGC instead of where it is today that AA has to continue to fund it frozen with full payouts.

This conversation has and will continue to be beaten to death I'm sure though but the APA and APFA also agreed to the concessions and many posters on here have touted up how strong they are as Unions and yet they did the same thing as the TWU agreed to.

Oh and Fleet is meeting this week in DFW BTW.

I am going back even further to 1983, then the 2 year extension which led us into the famous 6% over 6 year debacle in 95.

 

[WeAAsles]

I am going back even further to 1983, then the 2 year extension which led us into the famous 6% over 6 year debacle in 95.

 


In 2011, Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer (who worked with Senator Kennedy on airline deregulation in the 1970s) wrote:

What does the industry's history tell us? Was this effort worthwhile? Certainly it shows that every major reform brings about new, sometimes unforeseen, problems. No one foresaw the industry's spectacular growth, with the number of air passengers increasing from 207.5 million in 1974 to 721.1 million last year. As a result, no one foresaw the extent to which new bottlenecks would develop: a flight-choked Northeast corridor, overcrowded airports, delays, and terrorist risks consequently making air travel increasingly difficult. Nor did anyone foresee the extent to which change might unfairly harm workers in the industry. Still, fares have come down. Airline revenue per passenger mile has declined from an inflation-adjusted 33.3 cents in 1974, to 13 cents in the first half of 2010. In 1974 the cheapest round-trip New York-Los Angeles flight (in inflation-adjusted dollars) that regulators would allow: $1,442. Today one can fly that same route for $268. That is why the number of travelers has gone way up. So we sit in crowded planes, munch potato chips, flare up when the loudspeaker announces yet another flight delay. But how many now will vote to go back to the "good old days" of paying high, regulated prices for better service? Even among business travelers, who wants to pay "full fare for the briefcase?"[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act
 

 

[WeAAsles]

I am going back even further to 1983, then the 2 year extension which led us into the famous 6% over 6 year debacle in 95.

My friend Jerry who's father retired from AA in 1978 got one hell of a retirement package. Had we only all worked in this industry from the Fifties to the late Seventies, now that would have been something to talk about. 

 

[Rogallo]

My friend Jerry who's father retired from AA in 1978 got one hell of a retirement package. Had we only all worked in this industry from the Fifties to the late Seventies, now that would have been something to talk about. 

 
Ahh, back before corporate greed started kicking' in!!

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Ahh, back before corporate greed started kicking' in!!

Passenger greed as well. The days before people expected to fly through the air across the country like a bird for $39.00 and be served good food and free drinks as well. :angry2: 

 

[MetalMover]

Passenger greed as well. The days before people expected to fly through the air across the country like a bird for $39.00 and be served good food and free drinks as well. :angry2:

Well, thanks to Deregulation, people grew accustomed to flying at the same price as taking the bus.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Let's flip the coin on your scenario, what if I've been a FSA for 10 years and went to school to get my A&P and wanted to come into the MTC classification? Would you or anyone else accept me with my 10 years of time as a mechanic? I wish that it was that way, because I had the opportunity at one point, but didn't want to lose my time in case of furloughs someday. Given the way that things have gone within the industry, I most likely would have ended up on the street. I had to make a difficult decision at the time just as you would today.

Ramp service seniority should start accruing from the very first day that you start working on the ramp. It doesn't matter what airline that you merged from. And that date should be used for all seniority purposes.