Looks like pilot error?

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Sounds very professional... Too bad that "other" airlines have to resort to "playing games" when things don't go their way. Kinda reminiscent of a spoiled kid taking his toys home because he didn't get what he wanted.

Why can't you guys be more focused on how to improve your operatio rather than try to throw a wrench into ours?

By the way, I have seen our FOM and I know what the max taxi speed is supposed to be. So who made you the police judge and jury? If it works for us and apparently it has for 30+ years and safely too! Leave it alone..

You don't see our crews complaining about you guys all the time. So why the constant need to whine about us? You guys need some tissue for your issue!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++=====================+++++++

Quote;

"Why can't you guys be more focused on how to improve your operation, rather than trying to throw a wrench into "OURS"


Well truth be told ....some "CLOWN",

this whole thread has been a result of "YOUR OPERATION",
(such as landing planes next to gasoline pumps, and landing planes into city street INTERSECTIONS, (sadly) w/a fatality)


And your reply is ?????????????????

NH/BB's

 

[E-TRONS]

Some years back, on a flight out of AMA to DFW on LUV, we took off and on climb-out, got into some moderate turbulence. While looking out the window at the fluttering wingtips, I was wondering when the crew would pull back some on the power? Much to my surprise, they never did!! So my fillings continued to shake loose until we cleared the turb <_< .

It was probably the last leg of a long day for the crew. We all know how that goes but I think a slight adjustment to the "Ops-strategy" at LUV is in order. Just MHO.

Merry Christmas to all - y'all B)

 

[KCFlyer]

Some years back, on a flight out of AMA to DFW on LUV...

Was this a charter?

 

[Some Clown]

Some years back, on a flight out of AMA to DFW on LUV, we took off and on climb-out, got into some moderate turbulence. While looking out the window at the fluttering wingtips, I was wondering when the crew would pull back some on the power? Much to my surprise, they never did!! So my fillings continued to shake loose until we cleared the turb <_< .

It was probably the last leg of a long day for the crew. We all know how that goes but I think a slight adjustment to the "Ops-strategy" at LUV is in order. Just MHO.

Merry Christmas to all - y'all B)

Wow its amazing you knew they were exceeding the Turbulent Penetration speed from so far back in the cabin. Telepathic powers like that are a gift! Maybe you should be on late night TV helping others with your skills!

 

[Some Clown]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++=====================+++++++

Quote;

"Why can't you guys be more focused on how to improve your operation, rather than trying to throw a wrench into "OURS"
Well truth be told ....some "CLOWN",

this whole thread has been a result of "YOUR OPERATION",
(such as landing planes next to gasoline pumps, and landing planes into city street INTERSECTIONS, (sadly) w/a fatality)
And your reply is ?????????????????

NH/BB's

And how many threads were opened up after LIT where a Super80 ran off the runway killing several people? How many other airline employees came out and said AA is unsafe and they fly into severe WX and land with winds exceeding company crosswind limits? Man you guys need to give it a rest.

Quoting the NTSB

Runway Overrun During Landing
American Airlines Flight 1420
McDonnell Douglas MD-82, N215AA
Little Rock, Arkansas
June 1, 1999

The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable causes of this accident were the flight crew’s failure to discontinue the approach when severe thunderstorms and their associated hazards to flight operations had moved into the airport area and the crew’s failure to ensure that the spoilers had extended after touchdown. Contributing to the accident were the flight crew’s (1) impaired performance resulting from fatigue and the situational stress associated with the intent to land under the circumstances, (2) continuation of the approach to a landing when the company’s maximum crosswind component was exceeded, and (3) use of reverse thrust greater than 1.3 engine pressure ratio after landing.


Aircraft Accident Report
In-Flight Separation of Vertical Stabilizer
American Airlines Flight 587
Airbus Industrie A300-605R, N14053
Belle Harbor, New York
November 12, 2001

The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the in-flight separation of the vertical stabilizer as a result of the loads beyond ultimate design that were created by the first officer’s unnecessary and excessive rudder pedal inputs. Contributing to these rudder pedal inputs were characteristics of the Airbus A300-600 rudder system design and elements of the American Airlines Advanced Aircraft Maneuvering Program.

Ya know I really hate having to dig these facts out because I think it really shouldn't be necessary but when you guys continue to make asinine statements about our company without cleaning up your own back yard, then I have to raise the BS flag.

I have lots of respect for all other carriers out there. But you employees of the competition have some personal issues regarding SWA you need to resolve.

Please do yourself and all of us a favor and step back from the computer and repeat after me, "SWA is NOT the reason for the lack of Pension at my airline" "SWA is not the reason my company took massive amounts of pay and benefits from me!"

 

[E-TRONS]

Wow its amazing you knew they were exceeding the Turbulent Penetration speed from so far back in the cabin. Telepathic powers like that are a gift! Maybe you should be on late night TV helping others with your skills!

Yeah, You're a CLOWN alright....and know NOTHING about my credentials concerning flight-Ops, nor my 20+ year aviation maintenance career!! BTW, My specialty was ATA 22, 31 and 34 aka Avionics. I have been around the patch and flown up front enough times to know when the envelope is being pushed.....Kind of like the way your envelope is being pushed now !!

Wait....Got to go....news flash across my crystal ball!!!!!!!!!Sounds like an OVERSPEED WARNING (clak-clak-clak)!!!!!!

Merry Christmas.....CHUMP

KCFLYER: It was a field trip in Dec of 1992. We flew USAIR CLT-DFW and took a van over to DAL and a flight to AMA. It was on this leg that the hot-rodding occurred. Our return trip was supposed to be on "Shamu" but she xcld for MX. We returned on Delta, AMA to DFW. I'm sure the schedule has changed somewhat

 

[Rhino]

E-trons, I think the point being made is that power setting is not relevant in turbulence...KIAS is.

While in level flight a power reduction to slow down to optimum turbulent airspeed may be warranted.

On climbout though, most pilots will continue to use climb thrust and instead adjust pitch to obtain/maintain optimal tubulence penetration airspeed. This often has the added advantage of minimizing time spent in the turbulent altitudes.

 

[E-TRONS]

RHINO,

Good Logic which I have no trouble understanding. However, I just stated my point from how I have witnessed other airline flight crews operate in similar situations. And it's not like I said they should retard the levers to idle on a climb-out! Just a little common sense here??

 

[Some Clown]

RHINO,

Good Logic which I have no trouble understanding. However, I just stated my point from how I have witnessed other airline flight crews operate in similar situations. And it's not like I said they should retard the levers to idle on a climb-out! Just a little common sense here??

Ya know E-trons, I have no beef with you personally or your background for that fact. I've been around the block a few times myself in the 14+ years I worked in the business. But what I DO have a beef with is people living in glass houses casting stones.

And that being said, how can you be so sure they were exceeding Turb Pent Speed? I mean seriously here... Come on...

Anyway I hope you and your's have a Happy Holidays!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

And how many threads were opened up after LIT where a Super80 ran off the runway killing several people? How many other airline employees came out and said AA is unsafe and they fly into severe WX and land with winds exceeding company crosswind limits? Man you guys need to give it a rest.

Quoting the NTSB

Runway Overrun During Landing
American Airlines Flight 1420
McDonnell Douglas MD-82, N215AA
Little Rock, Arkansas
June 1, 1999

...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


some "CLOWN"

By bringing up the AA-LIT crash, you JUST MADE MY POINT !!

(Sadly) the LIT accident was PILOT ERROR(in this case the Captain)
The captain was(I believe) the "CHIEF PILOT"(Management) from ORD, who caused other people to lose their lives, along with making the ultimate sacrifice HIMSELF !!!

(Hindsite would suggest) that he ABORT that particuliar landing, which I dare say is PROBABLY being discussed(ABORTING) as we speak, at NTSB. !!!!


Was "the Envelope" PUSHED in both cases, "CLOWN" ????????

And your response to "THIS" would be ????????????


NH/BB's

**Moderator Note: Please refrain from quoting a lengthy post. It just makes it easier for everyone to read follow-on posts. Thank you.**

 

[Some Clown]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
some "CLOWN"

By bringing up the AA-LIT crash, you JUST MADE MY POINT !!

(Sadly) the LIT accident was PILOT ERROR(in this case the Captain)
The captain was(I believe) the "CHIEF PILOT"(Management) from ORD, who caused other people to lose their lives, along with making the ultimate sacrifice HIMSELF !!!

(Hindsite would suggest) that he ABORT that particuliar landing, which I dare say is PROBABLY being discussed(ABORTING) as we speak, at NTSB. !!!!
Was "the Envelope" PUSHED in both cases, "CLOWN" ????????

And your response to "THIS" would be ????????????
NH/BB's

**Moderator Note: Please refrain from quoting a lengthy post. It just makes it easier for everyone to read follow-on posts. Thank you.**

As for commenting on the specifics of an on going investigation, I wont. But in the LIT accident, yes the investigation found that the envelope was pushed and say so in there findings.

As for SWA at MDW the NTSB has yet to make that determination, YOU GUYS HAVE... That is what I have a problem with.

What was illegal about the MDW approach that the NTSB has stated for the record? And don't use the tailwind. Figure out what the tailwind component to the runway in use was and tell me again.

Now think of that LIT accident and tell me if ATIS and Wind Reports from the tower exceed company limits?

Yeah I remember this guy was a Chief Pilot and I know sometimes those guys aren't up to par when they spend time flying a desk most days of the week.

Back in my days as a flight mechanic (different airline), I remember the scariest trip I ever flew on was at the hands of a Chief Pilot just trying to keep current. It even scared ole Chief as he humbly told the F/O, "you can have it the rest of the legs today, I'll stick to working the radios".

Shock and awe had a different meaning that day.

Anyway I digress.

Accidents are just that. Accidents.. I think our safety record over the past 35 years stands for itself. So don't try to say WN is dangerous when the facts just don't back it up.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Speaking of the Heartland...I not long ago was taxiing out for to takeoff at KMCI on the inner taxiway for I believe 19R..There was a "LUV" machine joining the same taxiway WELL behind me. Before we got midway to the departure end of the runway (19R)..SWA requested to sidestep to the outer to pass me up..I obviously was taxiing way to slow for there operation..GO GO GO GO. ...

Fluf -

It's interesting that you brought this up. My guess is that the KMCI ground controller complied readily with SWA's request, and possibly even stopped you to make way for the fast taxi.

In PHX, I have been held from taxxiing from the ramp onto the parallel taxiaway for takeoff to make way for a SWA flight that was STILL ON LANDING ROLLOUT on the runway.

At KMSY I actually got a ground controller to admit on the frequency that she was intentionally hold me back to make room for a SWA airplane to get in front of me because she knew I would taxi too slow to suit SWA. Unbelievable...ON THE FREQUENCY she told me this.

That's how my signature below was born.

 

[Some Clown]

Fluf -

It's interesting that you brought this up. My guess is that the KMCI ground controller complied readily with SWA's request, and possibly even stopped you to make way for the fast taxi.

In PHX, I have been held from taxxiing from the ramp onto the parallel taxiaway for takeoff to make way for a SWA flight that was STILL ON LANDING ROLLOUT on the runway.

At KMSY I actually got a ground controller to admit on the frequency that she was intentionally hold me back to make room for a SWA airplane to get in front of me because she knew I would taxi too slow to suit SWA. Unbelievable...ON THE FREQUENCY she told me this.

That's how my signature below was born.

Maybe ATC is getting hip to how you guys try to slow down competition or create gridlock and are trying to beat you at your game. Just tossing out ideas..

 

[nycbusdriver]

Fluffie....sorry, not a pilot and not a Southwest employee. All I know as a passenger is that I appreciate the minimal time spent creeping to the runway, feeling every imperfection in the taxiway, sitting bold upright with my knees pressed against the seatback in front of me. I say...if they wanna taxi at 50, be my guest...If I had know it was you they were passing, I'd have waved from my window seat.

And therein lies the problem. Passengers perceive ANYTHING that saves time as good, no matter what is really transpiring behind the curtain. SWA has cashed in on this ignorance of the travelling public for decades because the FAA is a tombstone organization.

Well, now the FAA has their tombstone. Get the proctoscopes ready.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Maybe ATC is getting hip to how you guys try to slow down competition or create gridlock and are trying to beat you at your game. Just tossing out ideas..

Last time I checked, ATC is a federally-funded organization and is therefore precluded by law from showing favoritism. Bottom line: ATC should not care one whit about any of this. If they feel a particular airline flight is being inappropriately slow, there are official channels to have that captain called to account.

What the federal law doesn't take into account is all the informal "bribes" accepted by the various tower facilities employees from SWA to insure this illegal priority. And I hope that the fallout from this investigation gets into these "bribes" accepted by federal employees.