Largest Airline needs Mechanics Union

[1AA]

Maybe he is or was management TWU/ATD International or a management wanna be.

Sounds like you may know exactly who or she is.

 

[Vortilon]

Maybe he is or was management TWU/ATD International or a management wanna be.

 
 
Sounds like you hit the nail on the head....

 

[swamt]

Overspeed,  I see you continue to lie and deceive.  I have continuously corrected your barrage of false info over and over and over again.  Seems, as you continue, I will too.   SWA has continuously bought A/C thru 2000's, and more than ANY other airline.  SWA also picked up hundreds of aircraft from the AT purchase.  And SWA will be increasing the fleet yet again from now thru 2017 including purchasing 150 used A/C this year and next.  SWA has always had a consistant head count between 3-4 on average overall since the very beginning.  No one is complaining about this headcount except YOU.  You are the only one that brings this headcount up, no one from SWA does, and no one else on the forums do, why do you constantly keep bringing up a dead subject?  I will tell you why, it's all you think you have.  
SWA has not outsourced more work, period!!!   You need to show proof that SWA has outsourced more work, as you stated in your post #60.  Matter fact, as I have told you numerous times before, AMFA has been very successful at bringing in more work since the start of your little chart you have provided.  AMFA has added heavy lines of maint, several mod lines, C-checks in Dal and 3 other cities including ATL mod line and more and more backshop work. 
You keep harping on something that means nothing to nobody but you, and only you.  Once again Overspeed, I will take the headcount we have along with the job security, and the working relationship we have with our company over any other airline out there period.  You have also been corrected by WNMECH several times on this issue too, get over it and move on.  I believe you have even stated that you would prefer to have SWA's contract over yours if you had the chance to, and this was in a conversation with WNMECH I believe.  Now watch us grow even more in the future as a lot of things will come now thru 2017 and beyond, and watch as we keep the headcount at an average of 3.4-3.5 overall... 

 

[swamt]

Overspeed you continue to lie, lie, lie.  You did in fact say in post #60 that SWA did outsource more maint for higher pay.  And now in post #68 you claim that you said that SWA had the ability to outsource more.  Both are two different statements and BOTH are completely false.  You can't even keep your own lies straight.  BTW,  nobody has stated you said anything about SWA laying off.  Thomas and 1AA were only making another point that the ratio you are still harping on means nothing, nada, zero, ziltch.
Overspeed, I will take our fate over yours at your carrier any day, and the new AA mechanics that have been coming here in droves from AA have said the same including they wished they pulled the trigger years ago.   Again we will keep our contract as it is and you can keep yours...

 

[swamt]

Ok, so using Overspeeds logic in post #71 then it would be ok for AA to eliminate or reduce the fleet to 5 aircraft as long as the AMT to Aircraft ratio has remained the same,  LOL,  Really???  That would mean as lond as AA kept 65.5 AMT's with the fleet reduced to 5 that's ok.  As he states himself, he says that you guys have only dropped 1 AMT per aircraft for a total of 700 plus that have in fact lost jobs, but that's ok as long as the ratio is kept same, higher, or as he says only 1 less per A/C.  You are sickly PATHETIC man.
 
Overspeed also notes in post #72 that Tulsa was not given away, but fails to admit Tulsa WILL BE reduced once again down by well over 65% of what it was and the TWU has openly admitted to this.  No, your right OS, Tulsa was never given away, it was easily agreed to by the TWU to nego it away, and that is fact!!!

 

[swamt]

Thomas,
 OS is gone.  He always says "I will not argue with you anymore in this subject"  when he has been proven wrong.  He has done it with me several times, then he will be absent for some time then return again hoping he can start the same ol lies once again, thinking he won't get confronted again.  OS is a TWU advocate big time, he is sent here to try and save the TWU from an AMFA election getting in at AA.  Let him post guys he does a great job for them.  The more lies and misinformation he post about AMFA at SWA the better he makes AMFA look.  This is why some of us came into your threads to help stop all the BS that they will all say about AMFA and or SWA, it is the EXACT same thing the teamsters did when AMFA was running against them here, they would make up all kinds of lies and propaganda about AMFA and as we proved them wrong day in and day out it just turned more teamster supporters over to AMFA.  It is overwhelming how much these industrial unions will do this just to try and keep AMFA out of AA as they know what will happen in the airline mechanics industry if they do get in.  I am pretty sure it would be the end of the TWU and IAM as far as representing any mechanics at airlines.  Also pretty sure the mechs at AE or the new ENVOY will follow suit with you guys.  Now we sit and patiently await OS responces, yea right, lol...

 

[700UW]

AA can outsource 35% of the total maintenance budget, thats just crazy.

At US they can outsource up to 50% of billable heavy maintenance hours.
 
No line checks, no RON maintenance, nothing.
 
Who's language is better?

 

[swamt]

That's correct 700.  And who controls the budget numbers?  AA does that's who.  Which means AA can increase their outsourcing as the budget increases, as we all know it will, and is controlled by the company.  Where US's is a more set numbers.  Some on here, Bob Owens being one, have stated that the outsourcing could very well increase to well over 65% of maint done at AA, which would put them at SWA's outsourcing numbers after it is all said and done.

 

[1AA]

AA can outsource 35% of the total maintenance budget, thats just crazy.
At US they can outsource up to 50% of billable heavy maintenance hours.
 
No line checks, no RON maintenance, nothing.
 
Who's language is better?

Maybe the IAM's but not for long. The alliance will take care of that in no time.

 

[Overspeed]

Sure you did, show us the language which says the Tulsa base will stay.

Rapidly closing in on the 35% as they wrap up work on old planes that are going away. How much of the work will still be here in two years? That simple and utterly meaningless from the perspective of a dues paying member at SWA or AA.

In other words no dues paying member at SWA ever lost their job due in order to support higher wages.

But from "the perspective" of someone whose not actually selling his own labor and has to live with working more for less that the Union at SWA lost the opportunity to add even more jobs than they did had they been willing to sell the labor of their dues paying members at a discount. So from the business unionist perspective its better to have more members paying dues , to discount their labor and get more dues payers than to hold out and have fewer members making higher wages, in other words the Union should serve its own interests in maximizing dues instead of maximizing wages and benefits. You are saying that the union should put the interests of people who are not paying dues at the same level as the interests of those who are paying dues .

So from this 'perspective" of yours its OK that the TWU sells mechanics labor at below market rates in order to maximize and maintain dues flow?

If I read you right you are saying that dues paying members should be willing to work for less not necessarily to keep his coworker on the job, but rather current dues paying members should be willing to work for less to ensure that the company hires new workers after guys retire, quit or die to try and maintain some BS ratio and maximize the number of people paying dues.

 
Show me the language in the AMFA contract that says DAL will stay. As for TUL staying, only time will tell who is right and who is wrong right?
 
That is correct, SWA never laid off a dues paying member. So then next contract agree to more overhaul outsourcing like AMFA in exchange for higher pay if that is what the members want.
 
I believe that AMFA should have maintained the status quo on their HC ratios and received higher pay rates.
 
Never said it was okay to cut wages. If I would have been sent a ballot back in 2003 that maintained wages in exchange for more flexible rules I would have voted yes. I wasn't given that option though. AA in fact never needed to discuss this with the TWU if they had not recalled so many people in 2002 and tried to run with less people. Oh well, that was a management decision.

 

[Overspeed]

Maybe he is or was management or a management wanna be. It is just so pathetic that we as a group can not get together and say enough is enough and move on to better our futures for the industry and the future AMT's who still have a love for aviation.

 
I agree with you wholeheartedly, time to move on. What can we all do to improve our situation? How about stop talking like overhaul is expendable? 
 
All the rocket scientists think they have a better plan for the scope clause, wages, benefits, and work rules. I hope they are all sitting down now and planning for the next negotiations instead of pointing out how they feel the past regime did a bad job. We need leadership that has a direction and a plan. 

 

[Overspeed]

AA can outsource 35% of the total maintenance budget, thats just crazy.
At US they can outsource up to 50% of billable heavy maintenance hours.
 
No line checks, no RON maintenance, nothing.
 
Who's language is better?

 
Whose is better? Not yours. With US OSS % at 47% of the maintenance budget as of year end 2012 and US is at 10 to 1 AMT to aircraft. If AA drops to 8000 per the POR  and new CBA AA will be at 13 to 1. 

 

[swamt]

Overspeed is lying still.   I will not do any ground work for you.  Dal maint is protected in the AMFA contract, as well as OH, and all back shops.
 
And we NEVER have agreed to more outsourcing that you say we did in exchange for higher pay.  Our higher pay that you speak of was directly tied to the Northwest mechs contract that was nego by AMFA and used by the entire NC to get us our raises.  Yes we were represented by the teamsters at that time, but they were using the AMFA contact at NW to get our raises as well as our stock options on top of that.  The outsourcing you are referring to was not added outsourcing as you continuously lie about, it was lines of maint done at another contractor that the company was not happy with, therefore they relocated those lines and completely stopped using the US contractor.  Those lines were merely moved not added.  Plus, these lines are restricted to being added to and no other outsourcing out of US can be done, does any of your contracts limit your outsourcing out of the country?   Didn't think so.  Does your contract limit the number of lines at out of the country facilities?  I didn't think so.
 
Now if you think SWA should have kept the ratio you speak of then you go out and start your own airline any hire all the freakin mechs you want, I bet you would then want to run as lean as possible now wouldn't you.  Get a clue man, and pls keep posting...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
I agree with you wholeheartedly, time to move on. What can we all do to improve our situation? How about stop talking like overhaul is expendable? 
 
All the rocket scientists think they have a better plan for the scope clause, wages, benefits, and work rules. I hope they are all sitting down now and planning for the next negotiations instead of pointing out how they feel the past regime did a bad job. We need leadership that has a direction and a plan. 

 
O/S
 
I think you are putting the cart before the horse, although we do need to think about the next negotiations and what we will want to change or get back. The process of removing the TWU and thinking about who we will put in office as our airline Reps. can wait.
 
AMFA has its NEC leaders in place. I am not sure if they will be the best fit for us if we join their ranks, because of the size of companies they work for, but until we are under AMFA's constitution and put the TWU in our rear view mirror the membership won't be able to start the healing process for all the harm they have caused to our class and craft.
 
AMFA recently went thru a election process, some officers were changed.
But the fact that the membership was able to choose the people instead of having them put there without us having a say like we have now is a BIG thing.
 
We have a merger to deal with and how the integration of the two work forces will be accomplished. The TWU/IAM have put some things in place and have plans for more.
These were done without any input from us, as dues paying members.
 
Most don't even care any more, that is the result of your TWU's failure all these yrs. 
 
If we do get a vote and the membership votes in AMFA any resulting layoffs or cut backs will be blamed by like minded people and you that AMFA did it.
You will say it was done on AMFA's watch. What ever happens at Tusla and at each line station AA has set those plans into motion. DP and the leaders of AA have a plan.
 
WE need to start over here at AA, change the culture the TWU has instilled in the employees. Become a union, were the members think about one another rather than the IGM we have here now.
 
The scamming the union reps do on a daily basis is just part of the problem. The company is so used to getting what it wants since the TWU to dose its bidding.
We got new leaders with the new locals yet we still have the same things going on.
The TWU system is broke and has it built in, SCAMMING. 
 
A card drive has started here again, and some members of the US mechanics are on board as well. They are not happy with what the IAM has done to them. 
 
The next few yrs here at AA will be a changing time, merger/integration/aircraft and what operational procedures will be put in place. AA was the last of the legacy carriers to have a O/H base. But most have found a way to cut back and outsource that work.
Although I commend the TWU for keeping it this long times are changing. But having the membership suffer this much just to keep a few jobs is and was done only to keep dues coming in. The TWU knew long ago this would happen, they just played the game.
 
O/S most here don't agree with most of the stuff you post, doesn't that tell you something? They are fed up with the TWU and want change, No matter what you say they just want a change.
 
Let's hope that we can bring a vote here this time and then the membership can truly have a say.  AMFA or the TWU/IAM alliance. If you are so sure that your TWU would win then promote bringing a vote and lets put it to a test.
 
AMFA at the new AA in 2014

 

[MetalMover]

 
I agree with you wholeheartedly, time to move on. What can we all do to improve our situation? How about stop talking like overhaul is expendable? 
 
All the rocket scientists think they have a better plan for the scope clause, wages, benefits, and work rules. I hope they are all sitting down now and planning for the next negotiations instead of pointing out how they feel the past regime did a bad job. We need leadership that has a direction and a plan. 

Overspeed....by the time the next negotiations come around, the company is going to look vastly different than what you believe it is going to look light.