Largest Airline needs Mechanics Union

[1AA]

It is amazing how everyone is so pissed at the TWU and the Alliance. But when you mention AMFA and a card drive they have that look of oh no not again.
I guess we have not been bent over and screwed enough. Can't wait until I run into a IBT supporter. What will they say?

 

[Duke787]

The dead weight at the middle and top of the seniority list would never allow that.
 
I think AMFA might be a better choice than NO UNION. I believe it to be an inevitability that AMFA will sour eventually. Ask the average UNION electrician what they think of the IBEW.
 
You think bringing AMFA in will solve your problem, it may.... for a while. Eventually your going to see TWU V2.0.
 
I think a better tactic would be to have an American Airlines only UNION. I think AMP had the right idea.

The AMP guys that came to ORD were inpressive guys, but TUL mechs wouldn't get behind a union that was being organized there, then TUL mechs went for the IBT which got a lot of support but screwed us in the end. Tulsa voted in this latest contract overwhelmingly, using their numbers to overpower the line mechs votes, these are the facts.

I thought AMP was the right idea but didn't get the support it needed from the mechs in Tulsa, who have the majority of votes.

 

[Overspeed]

Under the TWU, we have lost MCI, AFW, DTW SNA BNA RDU CLE MSP we have Shrunk at SJU DFW SFO and San Jose. We farm out the 757, some 767, 777, we will farm out all airbus and the 787 that leaves the 737 and the S80 which is being retired. Let's not forget that TAESLE is in limbo not sure if it's staying or going. This is the contract that TULE voted in.

Line mechs make $3 an hour less then our counterparts at other airlines not to mention the holidays sick time etc etc, how much more sacrifice do the line mechs have to make for TUL, when TUL is the group that voted in a contract that allowed all the outsourcing.

This isn't AA playing the line against OH, this is OH with their head in the sand voting in a contract that outsources their own job, while at the same time making sure the line mechs have the worst contract in the industry. JetBlue and delta are doing better then we are and they don't have to pay a union for the right to go to work.

I say we go non-union, I'm sure the Tulsa guys would love that, seeing how OK is deeply conservative state. Of course I would rather be AMFA then no union, but for whatever reason TUL just can't sign that card.

 
My question to you is did any union prevent  the loss of overhaul work in BK? From the extreme at NWA to the minimized loss of work at US, do you really think Judge Lane would have sided with labor and gone against every other precedent set in previous BK's? AA was asking for industry standard on outsourcing which is around 45% of maintenance spend. 
 
It's not line versus base, outsourcing of large amounts of maintenance was started with the UA, US, DL, and NW BK's and AA wanted what they have. 

 

[700UW]

Judge Lane refused to abrogate the pilots contract.

 

[Flying low]

The AMP guys that came to ORD were inpressive guys, but TUL mechs wouldn't get behind a union that was being organized there, then TUL mechs went for the IBT which got a lot of support but screwed us in the end. Tulsa voted in this latest contract overwhelmingly, using their numbers to overpower the line mechs votes, these are the facts.
I thought AMP was the right idea but didn't get the support it needed from the mechs in Tulsa, who have the majority of votes.

Since AMP's constitutation was based on AMFA's, quite a few in TUL said the two were one in the same. Since TUL doesn't support AMFA, AMP had no chance even though it started in TUL as a grass roots effort.

 

[1AA]

Since AMP's constitutation was based on AMFA's, quite a few in TUL said the two were one in the same. Since TUL doesn't support AMFA, AMP had no chance even though it started in TUL as a grass roots effort.

I wonder how they feel about the TWU now?

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
My question to you is did any union prevent  the loss of overhaul work in BK? From the extreme at NWA to the minimized loss of work at US, do you really think Judge Lane would have sided with labor and gone against every other precedent set in previous BK's? AA was asking for industry standard on outsourcing which is around 45% of maintenance spend. 
 
It's not line versus base, outsourcing of large amounts of maintenance was started with the UA, US, DL, and NW BK's and AA wanted what they have. 

 
O/S
 
Your last sentence hit the nail right on the head, NOT LINE V/S BASE !!!!!
 
It's also not about the failure of the IAM/TWU/IBT/AMFA as you have said each union has lost against the companies at one point or another. Just as the companies have slowly done away with the O/H facilities and many other jobs.
 
This card signing is about change, moving on and replacing the culture at AA.
 
We here at AA have only known first hand the TWU, and from my time and many others here on this sites time we have had many things to discuss one way or the other.
 
A BIG part is the inability to decide which way our union takes us. For a lot of us it has been in the wrong direction. Time and time again we all have felt that the TWU has betrayed us. Putting the blame on the Intl. reps since they seem to in the past look out for their own welfare, rather than the memberships. Many feel the TWU has just grown to close working with AA that they are just a company Union.
 
So with that said IT IS TIME FOR A CHANGE.........
 
Not that we are better than any other group as many have accused the AMFA guys of. IT's the separation of class and craft so that we can fail or win by our own choice.
No other group will have any say into what happens with our future.
 
Many mechanics from Tulsa have just recent or have come to the line stations in the past and like the line operation. Many Would not want to go back. 
 
It is Time for all mechanics, Line, Base, Shop, Facilities, Automotive, and the mechanics at USAirways to sign an AMFA Card so that we can in control of our trade/craft.
 
Changing the UNION may just change the mind set of many and re-kindle the love of the job many have lost. 
 
AMP was an Idea that was set in place since many were just totally against the AMFA. This was done to try and get Tulsa to say we can copy the model of the Pilots & F/A.
Create our own union, but it was just another tool being used to Get rid of the TWU.
 
Bottom Line is Have we all reached a point in our career that we can Honestly say.
 

THE TWU NEEDS TO BE CUT LOOSE DUE TO ITS INABILITY TO RESPECT THE MECHANICS HERE AT AA.​

 

[1AA]

There is plenty of talk lately about signing cards. So is there any information to release about the cards? Is there going to be another push to sign cards? What will be the timing of the next filing with all the merger and alliance talk? Is there a deadline that we at AA need to file before the USAir guys will be involved in the total count if we file? Will the USAir guys sign cards on their behalf? Did the NMB return our cards? I am sure many cards are still valid. I emailed AMFA national a while back with similar questions, the response was not complete because of the uncertainty of the merger details and time lines. Should I email AMFA national again or will the AMFA organizing committee at AA have all the answers to post here or send out informational emails?
 
Hope to hear some promising news real soon from AMT's at AA represented by the TWU. 700UW take the hint.

 

[bigjets]

My question to you is did any union prevent  the loss of overhaul work in BK? From the extreme at NWA to the minimized loss of work at US, do you really think Judge Lane would have sided with labor and gone against every other precedent set in previous BK's? AA was asking for industry standard on outsourcing which is around 45% of maintenance spend. 
 
It's not line versus base, outsourcing of large amounts of maintenance was started with the UA, US, DL, and NW BK's and AA wanted what they have.

You are correct, all the other airlines went bk 10 years ago and did away with OH. The TWU sacrificed everybody's pay and benefits to save OH. Then AA goes bk still with the sacrificed contract along with losing a lot of OH. In 2010 we could of have had a $3 an hour raise along with a bunch of other stuff back, but Tulsa would have to work weekends and the younger guys would lose retiree medical. TUL voted that down, they can't be expected to work weekends like every other airline employee.

Yes losing retiree medical would have been a concession, but no other airline had OH to AA's scale, and no one had retiree medical, or a pension that we ALL lost in BK, while holding on to the worst contract in the industry.

Having mechanics off the floor negotiate a contract is just wrong, we spend our career learning about a/c maint, you can't expect to be very successful against a negotiator when that's all he does, a 30 day class on negotiating isn't going to cut it.

All those years of line stations being closed or reduced and the shops from those stations being moved to TUL all the sacrifice that the line stations have gone through for OH, now your going to say that the line stations are anti union or the TWU did as good as any other union. Non union airlines are better off then we are, the TWU doesn't even have the testicle fortitude to try and represent all of the new american, that is just weak.

I for one am certainly anti union now, thanks TWU.

 

[Overspeed]

Judge Lane refused to abrogate the pilots contract.

 
He did not refuse. He said that two sections were too much and advised AA legal that if they took out unlimited layoffs and code sharing her would abrogate the agreement.
 
U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane ruled Tuesday that American Airlines can abrogate its collective bargaining agreement with the Allied Pilots Association.
The judge rejected the APA’s arguments that American hadn’t made its case that it needed to toss out the contract to proceed with its bankruptcy reorganization.
Section 1113 of the federal bankruptcy code allows companies to throw out its collective bargaining agreements if it meets a number of requirements. The judge ruled that American had met those requirements.
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/09/judge-lets-american-airlines-toss-out-its-pilots-contract.html/

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

There is plenty of talk lately about signing cards. So is there any information to release about the cards? Is there going to be another push to sign cards? What will be the timing of the next filing with all the merger and alliance talk? Is there a deadline that we at AA need to file before the USAir guys will be involved in the total count if we file? Will the USAir guys sign cards on their behalf? Did the NMB return our cards? I am sure many cards are still valid. I emailed AMFA national a while back with similar questions, the response was not complete because of the uncertainty of the merger details and time lines. Should I email AMFA national again or will the AMFA organizing committee at AA have all the answers to post here or send out informational emails?
 
Hope to hear some promising news real soon from AMT's at AA represented by the TWU. 700UW take the hint.

 
1AA
 
The organizing committee had a conf. call today and the line stations that have cards will start ASAP.
 
New cards have been ordered and the distribution to the system will again happen asap.
 
It's ON.
 
Like I have been saying its time for everyone who wants the TWU gone to sign and assit in the collection.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Overspeed, please tell us what work AMFA gave up at SWA? Please tell us how much has their head count gone down and how many mechanics at SWA lost their jobs because they went for the higher pay instead.  you have made this claim many, many times but have not provided any hard numbers to prove that AMFA gave up jobs or work in favor of more pay for the senior guys.

As far as the position the joint TWU-IAM scam will take their spokesman here has made it clear that the IAM also supports having their mechanics make much much less money in order to keep more people paying dues.

 

[Thomas Paine]

AA was asking for industry standard on outsourcing which is around 45% of maintenance spend. 
 
It's not line versus base, outsourcing of large amounts of maintenance was started with the UA, US, DL, and NW BK's and AA wanted what they have.

Really? What do you base that on since AA is the only one to use spend instead of Man hours? Doesn't our contract allow that once our 757 fleet gets downsized to the point where its no longer cost efficient to keep AFW RR open that our spend limit will increase to at least 45%, just like what you claim is industry standard but we still wont be getting industry standard pay, benefits or work rules? I know I've read that many times here and you never put up much of an arguement.

you are right, its not Line vs Base, its false unionists like you who will always come up with another excuse for concessions vs those who are willing to fight for their profession. Rolling over and giving the company everything they want may be suffering but it sure as hell isnt fighting. The TWU never fought to save or get anything at AA since I've been here. It was always roll over and live to fight another day, so don't come here and claim the TWU fought to save jobs that SWA gave away. thats a lie on all counts, because they never fought the company to save jobs and SWA never gave any jobs away, they never had them. Over the same period that SWA has been around we gave away more jobs and gave away more benefits, more work rules and more pay than even non-union workers, and we even gave away more, as 700 is quick to point out, than the IAM did at US.

 

[1AA]

I agree with AMFA in Miami. Time for a change.
 
We have new management running the show. A godly awful new paint scheme with a subliminal message that probably says TWU/IAM Alliance up on the tail. I think this is why the New AA reactivated the Logo Lights to thank their company union. A new stock market ticker. New aircraft being delivered every day or it seems that way. So we as AMT's and related need a NEW Union to move forward to compliment all the new things happening here at the New AA. As they say out with the old and in with the new.
 
Bye Bye TWU,IAM and the Alliance and hello to the new AMFA.
 
When the Pilot unions and Flight Attendant unions are consolidating to ONE union representing their respective group it kind of tells you that this Alliance thing is only a money making SCAM. One union for all groups.
 
Sign a card and lets move on.

 

[Overspeed]

Overspeed, please tell us what work AMFA gave up at SWA? Please tell us how much has their head count gone down and how many mechanics at SWA lost their jobs because they went for the higher pay instead.  you have made this claim many, many times but have not provided any hard numbers to prove that AMFA gave up jobs or work in favor of more pay for the senior guys.

As far as the position the joint TWU-IAM scam will take their spokesman here has made it clear that the IAM also supports having their mechanics make much much less money in order to keep more people paying dues.

 
Oh I have provided numbers to SWAMT. The ratio of AMTs to aircraft has dropped from a high of 4.0 to 2.9 which means that while the fleet grew, they added fewer AMTs and have outsourced more work. Maintaining the status quo would have resulted in approximately 300 to 400 more AMTs making $40 plus. 
 
You can look at all the ratios here for all reporting airlines http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2012%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/MX/Average%20In%20House%20Maintenance%20Employees%20per%20Aircraft.htm