Industrial vs. Craft

[Raptorman49]

Take him up on his offer Buck.

Ask any of his friends simple and basic questions about union representation or what his friends even know about the ibt.

Their responses will amaze you!!

I did it and learned all I need to know in less than 5 minutes.

It is the perfect example of the blind leading the blind.

None of them want to be leaders.
None of them know anything about Labor Law
None of them know anything about the NMB
None of them know anything about any Union Constitutions

All they know is they hate the TWU, and would jump off of a cliff to change unions.

One guy damn near started foaming at the mouth but would or probabaly could not answer or discuss the issues.

Head buried deep.

Raptorman complains about being civil yet all of his ibt followers are anything but when you talk with them, or should I say try to talk with them.

Good Luck Buck

I would agree with most everything you said except for the jumping off a cliff part, I don't know anyone who would do that but everything else you said was fairly accurate from what I have seen, some but not all are hostile but everything you said can be said about most AMFA supporters as well, the biggest problem at AA is the Members more than the Union, if we change Unions we are still stuck with the same Members that are in the Mechanic & related group so the change won't be as substantial as most would like it to be, we would get rid of some work groups which would help some but probably not much.
It's a Quagmire with no real solutions that I can think of except getting out as fast as possible, look at United they had AMFA then voted them out so when you think about it their Members are just as bad as ours at making decisions.
I don't trust our Membership's decision making abilities myself so hate having my livelihood in their hands.
Good luck trying to get people to read up on Union stuff, I see people reading a lot but their reading Novels not Union stuff, I read a lot myself but it's different technology tech Manuals not Union stuff.

I believe their picking the Teamsters from Name recognition only for the most part & once the billboard & area signs go up that name recognition will even be more prominent, I don't envy your monumental task of trying to overcome that obstacle.

 

[TWU informer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbUblVPW5Ig

 

[TWU informer]

I believe their picking the Teamsters from Name recognition only for the most part & once the billboard & area signs go up that name recognition will even be more prominent, I don't envy your monumental task of trying to overcome that obstacle.

I find it hard to believe that Aircraft Mechanics at American Airlines are dumb enough the believe that "name recognition" equals superior representation.

They could prove me wrong, but as of today, I will state publicly that collectively we are smarter than that.

There is evidence here on this forum and at the base that there are some individual fools, and/or pockets of fools, but I doubt that is the majority.

Mechanics will get the representation they deserve. And "name recognition" will get you nowhere fast.

 

[Raptorman49]

I find it hard to believe that Aircraft Mechanics at American Airlines are dumb enough the believe that "name recognition" equals superior representation.

They could prove me wrong, but as of today, I will state publicly that collectively we are smarter than that.

There is evidence here on this forum and at the base that there are some individual fools, and/or pockets of fools, but I doubt that is the majority.

I agreed with most of what you said in your last post but none of what you said in this post, your making assumptions again & putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.
I didn't say that they were dumb nor did I say that they believe that name recognition equals superior representation, I didn't say they were fools either, you said all of that not me.
My point was that most Members don't care enough about Union Issues to take the time to educate themselves on them, that is NOT the same as being dumb or being a fool, Apathetic to Union issues yes but not dumb.

 

[TWU informer]

I agreed with most of what you said in your last post but none of what you said in this post, your making assumptions again & putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

You make more assumptions than anyone here, and then attack when you are called out.
In fact, based on conversations with you, damn near everything you believe in is based on assumptions. You have no facts, and have no answers to specific questions, so you survive on assumptions.

You even make assumptions in Tulsa World interviews and then you have the nerve to use that as a trigger defense WTF? Ever heard of "practice what you preach"

You keep putting words and beliefs in everyone else's mouth, and then cry because you are unable to grasp that you do not speak for others, and can barely adequately speak for yourself.

I never even mentioned you in that post, get a clue will ya?
This isn't about YOU, and the world doesn't evolve around YOU!

This crap is why you ended up being called names and treated like something other than an intelligent human.
You bring it on yourself, with your self righteous belief that everything is about you and directed towards you.
Try humbling yourself a little, your life will become more manageable!

 

[Raptorman49]

You make more assumption than anyone here, and then attack when you are called out.Y
In fact on conversations with you, damn near everything you believe in is based on assumptions.

You even make assumptions in Tulsa World interviews and then you have the nerve to use that as a trigger defense WTF? Ever heard of "practice what you preach"

You keep putting words and beliefs in everyone else's mouth, and then cry because you are unable to grasp that you do not speak for others, and can barely adequately speak for yourself.

I never even mentioned you in that post, get a clue will ya?
This isn't about YOU, and the world doesn't evolve around YOU!

This crap is why you ended up being called names and treated like something other than an intelligent human.
You bring it on yourself, with your self rightouas belief that everything is about you and directed towards you.
Try humbling yourself a little, your life will become more manageable!

My life is very manageable Dave & is exactly what I want it to be & I have no intention of changing anything about it except to get out of AA & away from people like yourself as soon as I can. And once again I have no problem with being attacked as long as the attacker is willing to take responsibility for it by giving his name & doing it in person like a Man, it's not the attacking that is the problem it doing it behind an Alias & a keyboard that's the problem so once again you totally missed the point.
and yes I make assumptions because I can, I don't have a problem with you making assumptions I was merely correcting your assumption of what you thought I was saying as being incorrect.
I don't put words in anyone's mouth I merely call it the way "I" see it.
I speak for myself just fine & will continue to do exactly as I am doing.
now calm down I was merely correcting your assumption of what you thought I was saying & was not attacking you in any way, I didn't call you any names or belittle you or call you a Liar so I have no idea why you think I attacked you.
I think your just very angry because the AMFA drive isn't going the way you want it to go, if you weren't then you wouldn't care what I say in the Tulsa World or anywhere else unless it was about you personally, your agenda doesn't bother me nor does what you think bother me as long as your not attacking me directly or Indirectly I don't care what you say or do .... it's your life after all just as mine in mine, so live it the way you want & I will do the same.

 

[riceweevil]

IBT is the only choice for AA MXs. amfa is a lost cause and you might as well hang it up.

 

[TWU informer]

IBT is the only choice for AA MXs. amfa is a lost cause and you might as well hang it up.

Can you answer a few questions?

How many members are there in the IBT Airline Division?

How many of those members are Mechanics?

Does the IBT operate on majority rule principles?

How does the Mechanic issues become the focus as the minority in the Airline Division?

Are there any Mechanics that are Officers in the Airline Division?

Are Airline Division Representatives and Officers elected my the members or appointed like TWU?

Can Airline Division Representative and Officers be recalled by the membership?

Can you describe the Central States IBT Pension fund?

Does this fund have more money going out than coming in?

Can you provide specific examples of how the size, money, claimed political clout and name recognition of the IBT has benefited the Mechanic and Related individual workers in any industry or politcal battle/issue?

 

[Raptorman49]

Some reasons that some have told me they like about the Teamsters are, they have 180,000 members, a lot of money meaning resources, professional negotiators instead of Local President's who have no experience with negotiating, Mechanic & related would be the only AA group in the Teamsters so they would be separating from the other 6 groups & the Teamsters would only be negotiating for them not all 7 groups, Mechanics would be the largest AA group in the Teamsters, that's pretty much the reasons I have heard them use, haven't heard them say anything about the International officers being a concern or what types of groups the Teamsters represent etc. everyone in my shop signed a card so if someone was really interested in why they signed they could come in & ask, I don't know for sure if they would tell a stranger their reasons but they might & I could direct them towards the more civil personalities.
Just an option.
personally I like their impeccable card drive skills for convincing TWU supporters to switch Unions, getting past the 50%+1 card count is the biggest hurtle I see to cross so those skills are helpful.

 

[Raptorman49]

A slight deviation from topic, Overspeed your score is -159 HighSpeed your score is -134 mine is only - 57 but i'm catching up fast so if you want to retain your title I suggest you stay on top of it.
I'll admit -159 is a pretty impressive score & will be tough to catch but don't count me out if I hang in here long enough I will catch you ..... I get bored quickly especially if this contract passes so I may not hang in here long enough to catch you but I'm working on it. B)
I've already made Veteran status in a little over a month so look out.

 

[AC Tynker]

Take him up on his offer Buck.

Ask any of his friends simple and basic questions about union representation or what his friends even know about the ibt.

Their responses will amaze you!!

I did it and learned all I need to know in less than 5 minutes.

It is the perfect example of the blind leading the blind.

None of them want to be leaders.
None of them know anything about Labor Law
None of them know anything about the NMB
None of them know anything about any Union Constitutions

All they know is they hate the TWU, and would jump off of a cliff to change unions.

One guy damn near started foaming at the mouth but would or probabaly could not answer or discuss the issues.

Head buried deep.

Raptorman complains about being civil yet all of his ibt followers are anything but when you talk with them, or should I say try to talk with them.

Good Luck Buck

One thing that comes from the beauty of " Democracy ", " Freedom " etc. Just remember the FACT not everyone wants to know or cares anything about the inner workings of Unions & Labor Laws they feel that they pays dues so people will do that for them. I would be willing that there are Hardcore AMFA supporters out there that could quote all kinds of information but if you tried to debate with them the conversation would be done because they never took the time to learn they just listened to people around them, I have seen it first hand on here with the witty one line comments of like "go away" or "you're an idiot". To fault someone for not being like you or Buck is wrong in my opinion. I try to read and learn as much as I can and through my efforts I am 100% sure I have not ran across any templates or outlines or tutorials that say you have to follow this or your opinion or conviction does not count.

When people go to a lawyer paying good money they are not held to someones standard that if they don't know everything the lawyer knows then they are wrong. When you hire an accountant you don't need to know tax laws. Like I said before, to fault someone that doesn't make Union, Labor Knowledge their highest priority or that does not have the same drive or mentality of others is petty.

You may be a computer guru or you may not but I would be willing to bet we could sit down and I could take you through OS knowledge or decompiling/compiling or writing code or dwelling in mysql, linux or OSX blah blah and I would get the deer in the headlight look or take you to some of the tech forums I frequent and you might not be able to converse in a thread because you have no clue if they are arguing or talking about arguments in binary code But! You guys can use a keyboard and mouse like nobodies business.

 

[TWU informer]

THERE IS ONLY ONE MECHANIC'S UNION = AMFA

 

[TWU informer]

You may be a computer guru or you may not but I would be willing to bet we could sit down and I could take you through OS knowledge or decompiling/compiling or writing code or dwelling in mysql, linux or OSX blah blah and I would get the deer in the headlight look or take you to some of the tech forums I frequent and you might not be able to converse in a thread because you have no clue if they are arguing or talking about arguments in binary code But! You guys can use a keyboard and mouse like nobodies business.

Why the hell did you end up at AA without any seniority if you can take anyone through OS knowledge or decompiling/compiling or writing code or dwelling in mysql, linux or OSX blah blah?

Is there some under lying unspoken issue? Or are you just unable to use those skills like most wizards with that knowledge?

My brother has those skills and makes 6 figures per year and doesn't bother to pay Union Dues and lurk around a sounding board for disgruntled workers. What gives?

 

[JABORD]

Can you answer a few questions?

How many members are there in the IBT Airline Division?

How many of those members are Mechanics?

Does the IBT operate on majority rule principles?

How does the Mechanic issues become the focus as the minority in the Airline Division?

Are there any Mechanics that are Officers in the Airline Division?

Are Airline Division Representatives and Officers elected my the members or appointed like TWU?

Can Airline Division Representative and Officers be recalled by the membership?

Can you describe the Central States IBT Pension fund?

Does this fund have more money going out than coming in?

Can you provide specific examples of how the size, money, claimed political clout and name recognition of the IBT has benefited the Mechanic and Related individual workers in any industry or politcal battle/issue?

A little tough love for you clowns. The point of the forum is to attempt to inform those that might have an interest, right? Well, Dave,Buck and the guy with little arms, you all work in TUL don't you? How many posts have you consumed with your little 3-way discussion? Really, take it to the local coffee shop! Those of us outside here are becoming disinterested in what appears as a personal discussion. Dave and Buck, in support of the AMFA drive, you all streamrolled over a HUGE point regarding Hoffa Jr throwing his membership under the bus. Let's reign it back in.

 

[TWU informer]

A little tough love for you clowns. The point of the forum is to attempt to inform those that might have an interest, right? Well, Dave,Buck and the guy with little arms, you all work in TUL don't you? How many posts have you consumed with your little 3-way discussion? Really, take it to the local coffee shop! Those of us outside here are becoming disinterested in what appears as a personal discussion. Dave and Buck, in support of the AMFA drive, you all streamrolled over a HUGE point regarding Hoffa Jr throwing his membership under the bus. Let's reign it back in.

Well excuse me. I thought asking these questions and getting some straight answers would qualify as informing those that have interest. If this doesn't qualify, then what does?

How many members are there in the IBT Airline Division?

How many of those members are Mechanics?

Does the IBT operate on majority rule principles?

How does the Mechanic issues become the focus as the minority in the Airline Division?

Are there any Mechanics that are Officers in the Airline Division?

Are Airline Division Representatives and Officers elected my the members or appointed like TWU?

Can Airline Division Representative and Officers be recalled by the membership?

Can you describe the Central States IBT Pension fund?

Does this fund have more money going out than coming in?

Can you provide specific examples of how the size, money, claimed political clout and name recognition of the IBT has benefited the Mechanic and Related individual workers in any industry or politcal battle/issue?