Industrial vs. Craft

[Raptorman49]

Should 'any' organization fight a grievance that is indefensible?
I don't think so.

This is the way of AMFA. They wanted to know all from the Grievant. Like xUT they assume he is in the wrong and then determine if its defendable.

Now wait it sounds to me like you are saying that ALL the unions have the same type procedure when it comes to not representing Members, is that correct ?? Are you saying that AMFA is different than Teamsters or TWU when it comes to representing it's members in a grievance & if so explain the difference.??

No I don't think all unions have the same procedures. I hope they all represent you. But, What I do know is that depending on the charges against you...there are alot of members like xUT that just won't want to fight for you... and with AMFA he may be on that Grievance committee..

Once again your not being very clear, there are always going to be members who don't like a person & don't want to fight for him we know that the question is do the other Unions have the same procedure that would allow the Union to simply choose to not represent you if you get fired & your career is on the line, from what I'm hearing some are saying that situation exists with all the Unions not just with AMFA.
You have not been able to say whether that situation exists only with AMFA or not so i'm not sure anything special can be made out of the case you presented yet but i'm listening.

 

[Buck]

Once again your not being very clear, there are always going to be members who don't like a person & don't want to fight for him we know that the question is do the other Unions have the same procedure that would allow the Union to simply choose to not represent you if you get fired & your career is on the line, from what I'm hearing some are saying that situation exists with all the Unions not just with AMFA.
You have not been able to say whether that situation exists only with AMFA or not so i'm not sure anything special can be made out of the case you presented yet but i'm listening.

Why are you now picking on amtcraig1? He is doing his best.

 

[Raptorman49]

Why are you now picking on amtcraig1? He is doing his best.

I'm not picking on him I'm trying to understand what his point is because it might be a good point & it definitely is peaking my Interest but i'm just not getting what he's saying is different about AMFA than the other two Unions on this Grievance issue, specifically when it comes to someone getting fired & having to pay for their own defense.

This is something I'm more interested in then whether the International is elected or not , I know that is important to some but not me, I want to know about this Termination Grievance issue.

 

[xUT]

Should 'any' organization fight a grievance that is indefensible?
I don't think so.

This is the way of AMFA. They wanted to know all from the Grievant. Like xUT they assume he is in the wrong and then determine if its defendable.

Now wait it sounds to me like you are saying that ALL the unions have the same type procedure when it comes to not representing Members, is that correct ?? Are you saying that AMFA is different than Teamsters or TWU when it comes to representing it's members in a grievance & if so explain the difference.??

No I don't think all unions have the same procedures. I hope they all represent you. But, What I do know is that depending on the charges against you...there are alot of members like xUT that just won't want to fight for you... and with AMFA he may be on that Grievance committee..

sigh...you guys are relentless with deflection, lies and deception.
No, I am not an AMFA organizer. I don't work for AMFA, AA or UAL.
No, I don't work in the industry now or will in the future (Never say never...).
I took my 34 years in aviation and walked away on my own terms.
B) xUT

 

[Overspeed]

In my experience I have never heard of, or been part of, a case where the burden lied upon the member to fund their own arbitration hearing. These hearings are entitlements to our members and paid for by the local if they choose to go forward unless your aware of something that has happened outside my local that I'm unaware of...Now this would be for members in good standing those who may be dues objectors may face the burden of securing their own representation...

It is rare. Extreme circumstances usually drive it such as sexual or racial discrimination if it is severe or overt and other union members are witnesses.

All members that pay dues are guaranteed representation under the contract. Even Beck objectors and members in bad standing. Bad standing usually means they haven't paid dues or willfully wronged a fellow member of the union.

 

[Overspeed]

Yes I have the actual Grievance, AMFA defended him because they had a stake in it though, it wasn't just some guy that got fired that AMFA didn't have a relationship with, everyone knows if the Union likes you they will defend you, the question is will they defend someone they don't like or are you paying for nothing because your gonna be using your own dime to defend yourself if you get in trouble.

If "they" or any union doesn't defend you because they don't "like" you then that is a DFR. You can and should sue the union if you have proof.

 

[TWU informer]

Anything to get the debate away from the fact that the Mechanic and Related would be less than 25% of the teamsters airline division, and in any union majority rule structure, the minority will never be heard. I am not interested in becoming another minority work group in a majority rule union.

The APA and APFA are both on American Airlines property and do just fine by their members.
Yet the Industrial Union advocates, who need your money to bailout their under funded pensions, want you to believe that Craft Unions have failed in this industry.

 

[Raptorman49]

Anything to get the debate away from the fact that the Mechanic and Related would be less than 25% of the teamsters airline division, and in any union majority rule structure, the minority will never be heard. I am not interested in becoming another minority work group in a majority rule union.

The APA and APFA are both on American Airlines property and do just fine by their members.
Yet the Industrial Union advocates, who need your money to bailout their under funded pensions, want you to believe that Craft Unions have failed in this industry.

Well your in luck Dave because I suspect you won't be in the Teamsters

but I also suspect you won't be in AMFA either, guess we will just have to make due with the TWU at least our Local officers come up for Election next year so there's a bright spot to look forward too, Unfortunately you won't be able to run for Office with the dual Unionism thing but hopefully we can find a few good Men in Local 514 who will run, I suspect we won't but hopefully we will.

 

[amtcraig1]

Once again your not being very clear, there are always going to be members who don't like a person & don't want to fight for him we know that the question is do the other Unions have the same procedure that would allow the Union to simply choose to not represent you if you get fired & your career is on the line, from what I'm hearing some are saying that situation exists with all the Unions not just with AMFA.
You have not been able to say whether that situation exists only with AMFA or not so i'm not sure anything special can be made out of the case you presented yet but i'm listening.

I am an AMFA member.. I think what you are trying to do is have me cross the line...

 

[TWU informer]

Well your in luck Dave because I suspect you won't be in the Teamsters

but I also suspect you won't be in AMFA either, guess we will just have to make due with the TWU at least our Local officers come up for Election next year so there's a bright spot to look forward too, Unfortunately you won't be able to run for Office with the dual Unionism thing but hopefully we can find a few good Men in Local 514 who will run, I suspect we won't but hopefully we will.

Well, thanks for the compliment.....er uh I think.

This is hard for me to say but it is the truth. If I had a ballot without AMFA on it, and the choice was TWU vs Teamsters, I would actually mark my ballot in favor of the TWU.

Very Sad!
It is what it is.

 

[iluvaa]

http://twu514.org/files/2012/07/MR-Bankruptcy-Agreement-Comparison-2nd-final-july-20.pdf
TWU begins anti AMFA but never mentions teamsters there so transparent. Any TWU supporters care to answer why the TWU isn't worried about the teamsters

 

[Raptorman49]

I am an AMFA member.. I think what you are trying to do is have me cross the line...

Ok you have completely lost me. Never mind i'm just not going to get what your saying and that's fine, maybe the other guys got it.

 

[Raptorman49]

http://twu514.org/fi...nal-july-20.pdf
TWU begins anti AMFA but never mentions teamsters there so transparent. Any TWU supporters care to answer why the TWU isn't worried about the teamsters

So your saying this Bankruptcy comparison document is somehow anti AMFA ??
I don't think the TWU is worried about the Teamsters or AMFA because I think Jim Little is tired of us & willing to let us go, I haven't seen any battle against either of them.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Ok you have completely lost me. Never mind i'm just not going to get what your saying and that's fine, maybe the other guys got it.

He is probably here looking for a hand out due to being terminated from his AMFA represented airline and AMFA wont fork up the cash to defend him....lol

 

[xUT]

I am an AMFA member.. I think what you are trying to do is have me cross the line...