Industrial vs. Craft

[riceweevil]

Per your lovely ibt, you cannot count UPS as they are in a different industry. That is what they told CAL when they could not even catch us up to pre-2003 levels last contract in 2010.

So your point is WEAK as you say, LOL.

And, why don't you answer any of Informers questions? Oh, I forgot, you can't!! HAHAHAHA!!!!

I think an AMT performs the same skills when doing a brake and tire change on a B757 whether it is operated by UPS or AA.
I would not even waste my energy on the informers questions as they resort to name calling instead of attempting to carry on any resemblence of respectful dialogue.

 

[Raptorman49]

I think an AMT performs the same skills when doing a brake and tire change on a B757 whether it is operated by UPS or AA.
I would not even waste my energy on the informers questions as they resort to name calling instead of attempting to carry on any resemblence of respectful dialogue.

I have never been a proponent of comparing apples to oranges, meaning while both A&P Mechanics perform the same function different types of companies makes vastly different profits & that must be taken into consideration when considering what someone should be paid, that's just common sense in my opinion, Flying Cargo is much more profitable than flying Humans, I also don't believe you can compare low cost Airlines to Large Legacy Airlines ... just my opinion.

 

[Buck]

I think an AMT performs the same skills when doing a brake and tire change on a B757 whether it is operated by UPS or AA.
I would not even waste my energy on the informers questions as they resort to name calling instead of attempting to carry on any resemblence of respectful dialogue.

However it is AA who believes that UPS is not part of the calculable factors involved in maintenance compensation.

Then in a representational election, it is the NMB who makes the call. Your dialogue has little affect on the industrial vs. craft union representational issues in front of this membership today.

Keep contributing it is interesting to have a Teamster organizer on the board.

 

[TWU informer]

That's just common sense, I could say the same for AMFA or the TWU, i'm pretty sure No union or company allows just anyone who is not employed by that Organization to speak for the Organization, doing so would be foolish, people can give their OPINIONS about an organization but certainly wouldn't be authorized to speak for the organization.
If you want your questions answered then show up at the meeting & I have no doubt your questions will be answered, if there not then you can ask the Paid Organizers/Employee's why they can't answer your question.

Anyone choosing to not show up really doesn't want answers to their questions in my opinion, I for one don't have any questions to ask them & don't intend to ask any questions at the meeting, Like at the AMFA meeting I will simply be there to show support for the cause.

I suspect that my list of questions regarding the ibt claims and structure would not be answered at the meeting anymore than they are being answered here.

Any legitimate and important questions are scuffed off as "AMFA Rhetoric"

I will not waste my time, I have had years of non-anwers from the TWU.

 

[whoop whoop]

I think an AMT performs the same skills when doing a brake and tire change on a B757 whether it is operated by UPS or AA.
I would not even waste my energy on the informers questions as they resort to name calling instead of attempting to carry on any resemblence of respectful dialogue.

I think you need to learn some things about the ibt before you start cheer leading for them!!

The ibt does not care what you think, they told us during negotiations that we cannot use UPS as they are in a different industry. Our argument was better than yours.

To us here at CAL, we feel we deserve more money than UPS as our planes hold an average of 150-300 people. That is a lot more responsibility than a crew of 2 or 3. But the ibt could care less, and was on the companies side that we could and would NOT count UPS.

Are you sure you want the ibt? It doesn't sound like you know to much about them. It's OK, ask me anything, I will be more than happy to answer any question you have truthfully, unlike the ibt.

 

[TWU informer]

Give us a list of the work groups that make up the current Teamsters Airline Divsion?

How many members are in the Teamsters Airline Division?

Of that number how many are mechanic and related members?

Does majority rule govern the Teamsters?

How does the minority in the Airline Division have their voices heard and
issues work on with laser focus when majority rules?

What is the class or craft of the current Officers of the Teamsters Airline Division?

Where is your proof that an AA employee without a license are not mechanics? Is that your opinion or the official Teamsters position?

FACT: The A&P Mechanics are the majority and always will be in the AMFA.

So your opinion is that $600,000.00 in dues per month is not enough to represent the mechanic and related group at AA?

Is this why the Teamsters dues are 2.5 hours per month and why the Teamsters rasied the Dues Amount when representing SWA mechanics to 3 hours per month without a vote of the members?

If the Teamsters can represent the mechanics better on money, poltical clout and worldwide name recognitionm then why is outsourcing, bankruptcy laws, and issues like NAFTA still a thorn in labors ass?

The ibt supporters and organizers rhetoric is in direct conflict with the facts.

 

[Bob Owens]

I have never been a proponent of comparing apples to oranges, meaning while both A&P Mechanics perform the same function different types of companies makes vastly different profits & that must be taken into consideration when considering what someone should be paid, that's just common sense in my opinion, Flying Cargo is much more profitable than flying Humans, I also don't believe you can compare low cost Airlines to Large Legacy Airlines ... just my opinion.

They are both Apples, just those (UPS) are grown in more fertile soil.

 

[Raptorman49]

I suspect that my list of questions regarding the ibt claims and structure would not be answered at the meeting anymore than they are being answered here.

Any legitimate and important questions are scuffed off as "AMFA Rhetoric"

I will not waste my time, I have had years of non-anwers from the TWU.

That's fine Dave but you won't know for sure unless you do show up, now you know why few show up at Informational meetings whether it be AMFA, Teamsters or TWU most people don't really want to take the time to get answers or they just don't care & that is everyone's prerogative, to be honest I don't really want to go either anymore than I wanted to go to the AMFA informational meeting but I messed up & said I would so once again I will keep my word, I have no intention or accepting anymore invitations after this to any meeting though ..... LOL
My free time is precious as well & don't like wasting it.

 

[Buck]

That's fine Dave but you won't know for sure unless you do show up, now you know why few show up at Informational meetings whether it be AMFA, Teamsters or TWU most people don't really want to take the time to get answers or they just don't care & that is everyone's prerogative, to be honest I don't really want to go either anymore than I wanted to go to the AMFA informational meeting but I messed up & said I would so once again I will keep my word, I have no intention or accepting anymore invitations after this to any meeting though ..... LOL
My free time is precious as well & don't like wasting it.

Wait a minute, you do not even want to attend your own drive meeting?

Can I expect the same from representation? I just don' t want to?

 

[TWU informer]

That's fine Dave but you won't know for sure unless you do show up, now you know why few show up at Informational meetings whether it be AMFA, Teamsters or TWU most people don't really want to take the time to get answers or they just don't care & that is everyone's prerogative, to be honest I don't really want to go either anymore than I wanted to go to the AMFA informational meeting but I messed up & said I would so once again I will keep my word, I have no intention or accepting anymore invitations after this to any meeting though ..... LOL
My free time is precious as well & don't like wasting it.

I already the answers to most of those questions, just presenting them as questions that each and every teamsters supporter should be getting answers to themselves, because they are very relevant.

See how many you can answer?!

 

[Bob Owens]

I think you need to learn some things about the ibt before you start cheer leading for them!!

The ibt does not care what you think, they told us during negotiations that we cannot use UPS as they are in a different industry. Our argument was better than yours.

To us here at CAL, we feel we deserve more money than UPS as our planes hold an average of 150-300 people. That is a lot more responsibility than a crew of 2 or 3. But the ibt could care less, and was on the companies side that we could and would NOT count UPS.

Especially when you consider that we made more than UPS prior to 2003.

Profitability should not even be a consideration, if flying cargo is so profitable then pop some bigger doors in our planes and load them up!

The only real arguement is that UPS does not have to compete with Delta, Southwest, Jet Blue, etc not the profitability of the airline which management controls.The objective should be to level off with UPS but the reality is if one passenger carrier, say CAL went to $54/hr while we here at AA shyte our pants because the company threatened to abrogate our contract and handed them a 10 extension with futher major concessions to the 2003 concessions CAL/UAL would undoubtably be at a big disadvantage as far as maintenance costs. We should all be at UPS wagers but we have to work together to get there. First step is talk to anyone you know at AA and tell them not to screw you and every other airline mechanic again by voting yes. Tell them they need to grow a pair.

 

[Raptorman49]

Give us a list of the work groups that make up the current Teamsters Airline Divsion?

How many members are in the Teamsters Airline Division?

Of that number how many are mechanic and related members?

Does majority rule govern the Teamsters?

How does the minority in the Airline Division have their voices heard and
issues work on with laser focus when majority rules?

What is the class or craft of the current Officers of the Teamsters Airline Division?

Where is your proof that an AA employee without a license are not mechanics? Is that your opinion or the official Teamsters position?

FACT: The A&P Mechanics are the majority and always will be in the AMFA.

So your opinion is that $600,000.00 in dues per month is not enough to represent the mechanic and related group at AA?

Is this why the Teamsters dues are 2.5 hours per month and why the Teamsters rasied the Dues Amount when representing SWA mechanics to 3 hours per month without a vote of the members?

If the Teamsters can represent the mechanics better on money, poltical clout and worldwide name recognitionm then why is outsourcing, bankruptcy laws, and issues like NAFTA still a thorn in labors ass?

The ibt supporters and organizers rhetoric is in direct conflict with the facts.

Sounds like you have a whole lot of questions, you know where you can get the answers.
you never know the Paid Organizers/Employee's that are authorized to speak for the Teamsters might say something that you could use against them, you could always secretly record the meeting from your phone to use whatever they might say against them if your expecting them to lie.

I don't expect a large turnout because as I said many people don't care enough to allocate their free time to Union representation matters, you will find a lot more people at the TWU Big Splash event than going to an Informational meeting..... It is what it is.

 

[Raptorman49]

Wait a minute, you do not even want to attend your own drive meeting?

Can I expect the same from representation? I just don' t want to?

It's not my drive, I just signed a card & yes you can expect the same attitude regardless of what Union we have as previously discussed I'm not big on Unions but I do like making decent money.
The idea of putting my livelihood in the hands of people I don't trust never does sit well with me.

 

[TWU informer]

Sounds like you have a whole lot of questions, you know where you can get the answers.
you never know the Paid Organizers/Employee's that are authorized to speak for the Teamsters might say something that you could use against them, you could always secretly record the meeting from your phone to use whatever they might say against them if your expecting them to lie.

I don't expect a large turnout because as I said many people don't care enough to allocate their free time to Union representation matters, you will find a lot more people at the TWU Big Splash event than going to an Informational meeting..... It is what it is.

I think that the same people pusing the teamsters card on the base should answer these quetions. If they cannot answer these simple questions then what do they know about what they are supporting?

I agree change is needed, but to run off half cocked without answers or even a simple understanding of structure is maybe all anyone needs to know before following someone that claims to have my best interest in mind.

 

[Frank Szabo]

I think that the same people pusing the teamsters card on the base should answer these quetions. If they cannot answer these simple questions then what do they know about what they are supporting?

I agree change is needed, but to run off half cocked without answers or even a simple understanding of structure is maybe all anyone needs to know before following someone that claims to have my best interest in mind.

I'm still questioning why (supposedly) the twu, with barely a whimper, is allowing this. I just can't see them giving away that kind of monthly dues income. They've made quite a bit of racket re: AMFA so far, but not the ibt.

Isn't our international worried that their tactics far too obvious? A 5 year old could see what's going on.