Industrial vs. Craft

[AC Tynker]

Well said Raptorman49 (oops I've been typing 43 instead of 49 on your nic sorry)

 

[whoop whoop]

It doesn't matter whether you pick a side or not you have to exactly agree with everything they say or your the bad guy, trust me I know I didn't agree with everything back in the 2003 AMFA drive when I was on the same team & it pissed some off & I was ok with that, like I said I'm not a very good team player I have my own mind, I refuse to conform & follow anyone..... It is what it is, you sound like the same type of Man .... that's a good thing, It is possible to support a cause without buying into it completely, for example I'm supporting the Teamsters even though I don't like Unions.

Guarantee you my signature of Can't we all just get along really pisses them off because they don't want to get along with anyone who doesn't think like they do.

I think that is exactly why you support the teamsters because they are NOT a union. They are a corporation that treats labor like a money producing product. All you and I are to them is a dollar sign. But you know that already, that is why you want a piece of the easy money ibt pie before you retire. You basically said so yourself.

It's not hard to read between the lines with you people. Very obvious you are. :-D

 

[Raptorman49]

It has nothing to do with opinions.

Fact: He said he doesnt like unions.
Fact: He admits he's in it for himself
Fact: He is a perfect mouthpiece for the teamsters, he does as they say even though it is against his beliefs.

Fact: There are no opinions discussed. So I'm confused why you two keep on bringing up opinions????

One last fact: Industrial unions have all SCABBED. They are worse than the companies we are dealing with.

Some of your facts are Waaay off, Mr. Factster
I'll agree with these two
Fact: He said he doesnt like unions.
Fact: He admits he's in it for himself

the rest are complete crap & Rediculous, there are scabs in Every Union but you already know that, you have drank the AMFA cool aid & think that they will solve "ALL" your Mechanic problems, better talk to the United Mechanics that just Elected the Teamster over AMFA if AMFA was the Panacea you think it is ... the Holy grail for Mechanics then they would still be at United ..... Wake up & smell the coffee dude their is NO Panacea no Holy Grail, You act like your in a cult or something worshiping AMFA , do yourself a Favor & don't worship any Union ever, None of them are worth worshiping.
You have Union Cult fever bad dude you need help.

Definition of a Cult:

: formal religious veneration : worship​

2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents

3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents

4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>

5: a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fadb : the object of such devotionc : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

All Union's are Cults, I'm not the Cultist type.
I will never be a Cultist & worship ANY Union, I am forced to be in a Union by AA & pay dues .... Ok fine all I expect is to get my monies worth, more than likely changing Unions won't help us though because it is the people who are in the Union that decide whether we get good or bad contracts If Apathetic scared Mechanics keep voting massive Concessions in then it won't matter what Union we get, we have to fight back & STOP voting on Massive concessionary contracts, at the very least we should have a comparable contract to Delta & United not vote for something way below what they have.... Ugh !!

 

[Raptorman49]

I think that is exactly why you support the teamsters because they are NOT a union. They are a corporation that treats labor like a money producing product. All you and I are to them is a dollar sign. But you know that already, that is why you want a piece of the easy money ibt pie before you retire. You basically said so yourself.

It's not hard to read between the lines with you people. Very obvious you are. :-D

I want a decent contract where I make Decent Money or have a Pension & Retiree Medical so I can retire .... YES, that is my Only agenda and has been since the day I hired on at AA, I won't deny that, My goal is to get out of Aviation as SOON as possible & to leave Aviation behind, Union Extremists behind & apathetic People behind who make bad decisions, We all have Agenda's the fact is I rarely run into anyone at the base whose Agenda is Unionism .... probably why it's so hard to get cards people don't care about the Union until contract time & that's when we expect them to do what were paying them to do get us a decent contract or get out & give us back our money, Ever go to Union meetings & notice that their are maybe 30 people out of 9,000 there on a good day ? At the TWU contract Informational meeting their were maybe 900 out of 13,000+ people there and many were spouses, most people are apathetic & don't care about your Mechanic Utopia cause.

Like I said all of us on here are here because we have way to much free time on our hands & need something to do.

 

[whoop whoop]

Some of your facts are Waaay off, Mr. Factster
I'll agree with these two
Fact: He said he doesnt like unions.
Fact: He admits he's in it for himself

the rest are complete crap & Rediculous, there are scabs in Every Union but you already know that, you have drank the AMFA cool aid & think that they will solve "ALL" your Mechanic problems, better talk to the United Mechanics that just Elected the Teamster over AMFA if AMFA was the Panacea you think it is ... the Holy grail for Mechanics then they would still be at United ..... Wake up & smell the coffee dude their is NO Panacea no Holy Grail, You act like your in a cult or something worshiping AMFA , do yourself a Favor & don't worship any Union ever, None of them are worth worshiping.
You have Union Cult fever bad dude you need help.

Definition of a Cult:

: formal religious veneration : worship​

2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents

3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents

4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>

5: a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fadb : the object of such devotionc : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

All Union's are Cults, I'm not the Cultist type.
I will never be a Cultist & worship ANY Union, I am forced to be in a Union by AA & pay dues .... Ok fine all I expect is to get my monies worth, more than likely changing Unions won't help us though because it is the people who are in the Union that decide whether we get good or bad contracts If Apathetic scared Mechanics keep voting massive Concessions in then it won't matter what Union we get, we have to fight back & STOP voting on Massive concessionary contracts, at the very least we should have a comparable contract to Delta & United not vote for something way below what they have.... Ugh !!

I cant even read past the CULT comment.

There is no cult about it. The main reason people favor AMFA is they actually have a voice and control of their own destiny. THAT is what free thinkers want. Not some union that is going to make decisions for him, telling him he really does not understand.

Case in point, open negotiations. Why is AMFA the only union that lets it's members sit in? Because they are a democratic union that lets free thinkers suggest different ideas, unlike your SCAB industrial, money grubbing, lying, deceiving, thieving unions.

Another example, SWA and Airtran voted on their integration, BECAUSE of AMFA, not the ibt. Here at the new UA, we do not even have an input let alone a voice. They are deciding for us. Where is the free thinking there. AMFA gave SWA a voice and a part of the decision making. The teamsters have given us NOTHING, not even good updates.

Free thinking, you are the furthest from free thinking!

Free thinkers like OPEN communication to bounce ideas around with each other, free thinkers like to have control over themselves, and NONE of this applies to your beloved SCABS!!!

You sir are no free thinker, I guarantee you that. You are the exact opposite. I have been around the teamsters long enough to realize they are telling you what and how to say things.

 

[Raptorman49]

I cant even read past the CULT comment.

There is no cult about it. The main reason people favor AMFA is they actually have a voice and control of their own destiny. THAT is what free thinkers want. Not some union that is going to make decisions for him, telling him he really does not understand.

Case in point, open negotiations. Why is AMFA the only union that lets it's members sit in? Because they are a democratic union that lets free thinkers suggest different ideas, unlike your SCAB industrial, money grubbing, lying, deceiving, thieving unions.

Another example, SWA and Airtran voted on their integration, BECAUSE of AMFA, not the ibt. Here at the new UA, we do not even have an input let alone a voice. They are deciding for us. Where is the free thinking there. AMFA gave SWA a voice and a part of the decision making. The teamsters have given us NOTHING, not even good updates.

Free thinking, you are the furthest from free thinking!

Free thinkers like OPEN communication to bounce ideas around with each other, free thinkers like to have control over themselves, and NONE of this applies to your beloved SCABS!!!

You sir are no free thinker, I guarantee you that. You are the exact opposite. I have been around the teamsters long enough to realize they are telling you what and how to say things.

No one tells me anything, I am not a Cultist as I said ALL Unions fall under the Definition of a Cult, A cult is basically a group of people who "WORSHIP" an Idea, Person or an Organization, clearly you "WORSHIP" AMFA & think that regardless of who is in the Union AMFA is your Holy Grail that will deliver the Mechanic profession from it's Persecution raise them up to possible world Domination .... Ok I went a little far with the World Domination part but you really are fanatical about this, I rarely run into someone that is that Obsessed with AMFA or Unionism in General you truly are a Minority at AA, Obviously your a lot more tortured about the TWU being our Union than I am, I just want a decent contract to I can make some money & Parachute out, I believe the real problem is the Members they are the ones who vote in bad Concessionary contracts as long as we have the same Members willing to bring back concessionary contracts then vote them in it won't matter what Union we have.
Besides the Bottom line is your a terrible Organizer like the rest of the New Organizers so you can't get enough cards regardless of what Union your pushing, you spend to much time on this Board debating people instead of hustling cards.

 

[TWU informer]

Besides the Bottom line is your a terrible Organizer like the rest of the New Organizers so you can't get enough cards regardless of what Union your pushing, you spend to much time on this Board debating people instead of hustling cards.

Let me if anyone you know gets an AMFA card in their hand next week.....ok?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Obviously every situation is going to be different there are always many factors, here in Tulsa we have 4,900 Mechanics at the present so more than likely we would have our own Local, now a Line station with only 200 Mechanics or so probably wouldn't get it's own Local, I suspect that would be the case with AMFA too though, there are benefits to having a lot of Members in your area, bottom line it's all about the cards, If AMFA supporters want AMFA in then they need to start busting their a$$eS off & getting cards because their fighting an uphill battle, a casual approach won't cut it.

As I said before, you better get it in writing.

We in SFO thought we were big enough for our own Local, something we DID HAVE with AMFA. Yet when throughout the ibt campaign when asked about our local they wouldn't answer, and only after the voting started, was it revealed that we were going to be split between 2 locals.

You're the worst kind of naive to simply trust the ibt with their track record of broken promises & outright lies.

 

[whoop whoop]

No one tells me anything, I am not a Cultist as I said ALL Unions fall under the Definition of a Cult, A cult is basically a group of people who "WORSHIP" an Idea, Person or an Organization, clearly you "WORSHIP" AMFA & think that regardless of who is in the Union AMFA is your Holy Grail that will deliver the Mechanic profession from it's Persecution raise them up to possible world Domination .... Ok I went a little far with the World Domination part but you really are fanatical about this, I rarely run into someone that is that Obsessed with AMFA or Unionism in General you truly are a Minority at AA, Obviously your a lot more tortured about the TWU being our Union than I am, I just want a decent contract to I can make some money & Parachute out, I believe the real problem is the Members they are the ones who vote in bad Concessionary contracts as long as we have the same Members willing to bring back concessionary contracts then vote them in it won't matter what Union we have.
Besides the Bottom line is your a terrible Organizer like the rest of the New Organizers so you can't get enough cards regardless of what Union your pushing, you spend to much time on this Board debating people instead of hustling cards.

First, if you had paid attention to anything, you would realize I work for the new UA, old CAL.

Second, I will say it again. AS a free thinker, the reason I want AMFA to represent me is I have a voice and can bring my ideas forward, unlike your cultist push for the ibt that you admittedly said you are against.

You can try to divert all you want, but it is your actions that speaks volumes about you and YOUR cultist ways.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I want a decent contract where I make Decent Money or have a Pension & Retiree Medical so I can retire .... YES, that is my Only agenda and has been since the day I hired on at AA, I won't deny that, My goal is to get out of Aviation as SOON as possible & to leave Aviation behind, Union Extremists behind & apathetic People behind who make bad decisions, We all have Agenda's the fact is I rarely run into anyone at the base whose Agenda is Unionism .... probably why it's so hard to get cards people don't care about the Union until contract time & that's when we expect them to do what were paying them to do get us a decent contract or get out & give us back our money, Ever go to Union meetings & notice that their are maybe 30 people out of 9,000 there on a good day ? At the TWU contract Informational meeting their were maybe 900 out of 13,000+ people there and many were spouses, most people are apathetic & don't care about your Mechanic Utopia cause.

Like I said all of us on here are here because we have way to much free time on our hands & need something to do.

A splendid example of how to get back to becoming an answer to your own question.

In this post you talk about the ibt election at UAL...

Whoop United just elected the Teamsters & through out AMFA the reason why they did it is irrelevant what matters is the Majority wanted the Teamsters over AMFA, that also happened at Horizon & other places so apparently not everyone prefers a craft Union over an Industrial Union, I don't really care what most people want I just want to try something different than the TWU whether that be Teamsters, AMFA or IAM is fine with me it's a matter of whether any of them can get enough cards and so far the question to that is they haven't & probably won't so just playing the odds more than likely were going to be stuck with the TWU.
I'm pretty that if AMFA were to get in at AA I would find something I didn't like about them too, Unions in General are a pain in the A$$

You claim above the reason for the ibt win is irrelevant when in fact its the point in the extreme. You admit you want out as soon as possible with the best wages and pensions, you admit you are not a union person, you admit only doing this because you believe the ibt can win.

You are EXACTLY the type of naive uninformed individual that the ibt preyed upon at UAL with promises of double vesting pensions, and lies about early contract openers.


You obviously don't care what happens after you get yours, you're a sellout and have admitted as much.

Heres hoping a larger group of AA mechanics are a bit more discerning than you, when next you try slinging your ibt cards.

 

[Raptorman49]

Let me if anyone you know gets an AMFA card in their hand next week.....ok?

Hmmm sure, I have heard from Don that AMFA is going to ramp it up in Tulsa .... Guess we will see if that happens.
Truth be know if a really strong push were to happen skepticism about AMFA chances certainly could change. B)

 

[Raptorman49]

As I said before, you better get it in writing.

We in SFO thought we were big enough for our own Local, something we DID HAVE with AMFA. Yet when throughout the ibt campaign when asked about our local they wouldn't answer, and only after the voting started, was it revealed that we were going to be split between 2 locals.

You're the worst kind of naive to simply trust the ibt with their track record of broken promises & outright lies.

Dude you & your fellow Mechanics had AMFA & you kicked them out in favor of the Teamsters ..... I don't get you, Why kick them to the curb if you liked them so much ???

 

[DNTULSA]

Now that really hurts because I came here to make friends, guess I should call off the BBQ I was going to Invite you guys too.
People who are opinionated & don't agree with other people often aren't to well Liked, comes with the territory dude if I wanted to be well liked I guess I would agree with your point of view, the fact that I don't says quite a lot don't you think ?

Just so you know I already have to many friends & don't really have room for anymore so I"m Reaaaal picky about allowing any new applications.

Methinks thou dost protest too much! (snicker)

 

[Raptorman49]

First, if you had paid attention to anything, you would realize I work for the new UA, old CAL.

Second, I will say it again. AS a free thinker, the reason I want AMFA to represent me is I have a voice and can bring my ideas forward, unlike your cultist push for the ibt that you admittedly said you are against.

You can try to divert all you want, but it is your actions that speaks volumes about you and YOUR cultist ways.

Ok so let me get this straight your in an American Airlines forum pushing for AMFA even though it's not even the company you work for & at your company United you had AMFA & kicked them to the curb in favor of the Teamsters WTF
Dude are you on meds ?? Why the hell are you in an AA forum ?? I wouldn't even think about lurking around another Airlines forum that is totally pointless shouldn't you be working your a$$ off at United & in the United Airlines forum to get AMFA back now that you through them out ?? You definitely have to much time on your hands! You have some Issues dude that kind of freaks me out .... Nothing personal,

Seeing as you don't have a dog in this fight your comments have suddenly taken on a lot less meaning to me, you could have made that more clear from the beginning, ok so there really aren't many posters in here & now i'm finding out that several of them don't even work for AA ...... LOL this just gets better & better.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Dude you & your fellow Mechanics had AMFA & you kicked them out in favor of the Teamsters ..... I don't get you, Why kick them to the curb if you liked them so much ???

Asked and answered how many times now?

Are each and every one of the AA membership completely versed on both your CBA and relevant RLA material? I'm guessing not. Suffice it to say neither are the majority of UAL mechanics

The ibt played on the fears of the UAL membership, and offered themselves as saviors with overreaching promises and outright lies.

Rest assured, when it comes to a vote again, there will be a far different outcome.