Industrial vs. Craft

[Raptorman49]

http://www.amfanatio...m&HomeID=250352

I wonder why the mighty teamsters did not try to organize the SWA mechanics? I mean they are so much stronger and powerful and richer than AMFA. It would seem like a no brainer.

I assume they go where they think their wanted, they went to United & Horizon because they were asked just like Mechanics at AA asked them to come, they come & gauge how much real interest their is by sitting up a Informational meeting like they did in Tulsa & if it looks ripe for Raiding the Raid is on, they said the Tulsa Informational meeting went much better than they had expected so they jumped on it full bore, and are very pleased with the results so far.

 

[whoop whoop]

Don't you find it peculiar that people they once represented do not want them. If they are as good and have done so much good for this profession as they claim??? I'm puzzled????

 

[Raptorman49]

Don't you find it peculiar that people they once represented do not want them. If they are as good and have done so much good for this profession as they claim??? I'm puzzled????

Who said that Mechanics at United didn't want them as I said their not currently having a card drive to get rid of them & they did replace AMFA at United so apparently United didn't want AMFA anymore, AMFA has been voted out of more than one Airline in the past few years so on your line of thinking that can't be good.

 

[AA89]

Raptor, with all of the IBT support you are seeing in Tulsa and contact you have had from those guys, what do they see as the difference between the TWU and IBT and the advantage of the IBT over AMFA?
I just can't see the difference between the TWU and IBT and dont say "numbers". Numbers dont make a rats ass difference in the RLA/BK world we live in and please no charts and articles.
I'm asking for the sentiment of the guys that you say overwhelmingly support the IBT over AMFA. I haven't been to Tulsa in 22 years but I find it hard to believe that the IBT supporters outnumber AMFA supporters 20 to 1.

 

[Raptorman49]

Raptor, with all of the IBT support you are seeing in Tulsa and contact you have had from those guys, what do they see as the difference between the TWU and IBT and the advantage of the IBT over AMFA?
I just can't see the difference between the TWU and IBT and dont say "numbers". Numbers dont make a rats ass difference in the RLA/BK world we live in and please no charts and articles.
I'm asking for the sentiment of the guys that you say overwhelmingly support the IBT over AMFA. I haven't been to Tulsa in 22 years but I find it hard to believe that the IBT supporters outnumber AMFA supporters 20 to 1.

Ok this is what l'm being told by the guys who don't want to sign an AMFA card but did sign a Teamster card. remember this is what they are telling me NOT my views because you asked what they are saying, I don't know all the reasons but here are some, they don't like that AMFA has lost so many Airlines in the last few years or that AMFA doesn't in their eyes have as much clout/Money as the Teamsters, non A&P Mechanics & Machinists think that AMFA only cares about A&P Mechanics, they like that the Teamsters have a lot of resources/money they think they will care more about non A&P Mechanics & Machinists & that they must be good because they have so many Members, they like the Pension plan & discount Insurance plan, also some who actually like AMFA like me think that AMFA can't get enough cards, those are a few things mentioned to me, remember this is their thinking NOT mine, I have no doubt you can debunk all those issues but your preaching to the Choir, Its the masses who have Issues & won't sign a card that you need to preach too, preaching to me wouldn't do you any good I signed an AMFA card on the first day & am not against AMFA or have any of those mentioned Issues ... well except the cards Issue, If AMFA had some really motivated Organizers who wanted to spend a lot of time talking to the Base Mechanics & debunking all those Issues they just might have a shot. We'll see what happens.
Oh and the difference between Teamsters & TWU is their tired of the TWU for many reasons & have never had the Teamsters to be tired of them so they want to try something else that is still an Industrial Union but not the TWU Industrial Union & they also want not to be part of the other 6 work groups anymore, and their tired of Jim Little..... Who isn't ... LOL
Oh and I didn't say they outnumber AMFA supporters 20 to 1 you said that, I don't really know the actual percentage as I'm not part of the AMFA drive.
I really don't have any Issues I sign everybody's cards in the hopes that some other Union might beat the TWU, so unlike some other Mechanics I'm not keeping any competing Union from getting enough cards.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Yes I know the Teamster Union is an Industrial Union, don't know anything about the Negotiators, If we get the Teamsters there would have to be an Election for Local officers, as for why I'm pushing them it's because I don't like the TWU & I want someone who can beat them, If you want AMFA to win then you need to find some "VERY" motivated Organizers in Tulsa because in my opinion they are the underdog in this race behind both Teamsters & the TWU, I'm not seeing any "VERY"
motivated Organizers so far, In 2003 we barely got enough cards because we had a lot of very motivated Organizers who busted their ass for 10 months getting cards & AMFA was at the top of their game with several Airlines, things are very different today with AMFA & Organizer numbers & motivation, if I were to see some very motivated Organizers in Tulsa I might change my mind as to whether I thought AMFA had a chance of getting enough cards, I'm being told that will change, I will be keeping a lookout to see if in fact that is the case, you can't get to an Election by being a passive lazy a$$ organizer .... It won't work, Bottom line it doesn't matter who the best Union for Mechanics is unless you can get to an Election.
I would have no problem with supporting AMFA if I were to see signs that they even have a chance of getting to an Election ..... SHOW ME IT CAN BE DONE & I'M WITH YOU

Whoop I want to see AMFA organizers wearing their shirts, out hustling up cards everywhere I go at the base like I see with the Teamsters, that's my definition of a motivated Organizer, instead of trying to motivate me you need to start motivating your Organizers Man cause their just not cutting it.

If thats what the ibt is promising you on local officers you better get it in writing.

Here at UAL, all BAs were appointed and ALL UAL mechanics were placed in existing ibt locals.

We had ZERO officer elections.

The only elections we did have were for shop stewards, and the grievance committee.

 

[iluvaa]

"Whoop I want to see AMFA organizers wearing their shirts, out hustling up cards everywhere I go at the base like I see with the Teamsters, that's my definition of a motivated Organizer, instead of trying to motivate me you need to start motivating your Organizers Man cause their just not cutting"

Raptor I think that is a bit of a stretch Ive havnt seen any organizers on either side really so dont act like the teamsters has some great showing over others

 

[Raptorman49]

"Whoop I want to see AMFA organizers wearing their shirts, out hustling up cards everywhere I go at the base like I see with the Teamsters, that's my definition of a motivated Organizer, instead of trying to motivate me you need to start motivating your Organizers Man cause their just not cutting"

Raptor I think that is a bit of a stretch Ive havnt seen any organizers on either side really so dont act like the teamsters has some great showing over others

Well I don't know what area you work in but come by the cam building & you will see some.

 

[Raptorman49]

If thats what the ibt is promising you on local officers you better get it in writing.

Here at UAL, all BAs were appointed and ALL UAL mechanics were placed in existing ibt locals.

We had ZERO officer elections.

The only elections we did have were for shop stewards, and the grievance committee.

Obviously every situation is going to be different there are always many factors, here in Tulsa we have 4,900 Mechanics at the present so more than likely we would have our own Local, now a Line station with only 200 Mechanics or so probably wouldn't get it's own Local, I suspect that would be the case with AMFA too though, there are benefits to having a lot of Members in your area, bottom line it's all about the cards, If AMFA supporters want AMFA in then they need to start busting their a$$eS off & getting cards because their fighting an uphill battle, a casual approach won't cut it.

 

[whoop whoop]

Obviously every situation is going to be different there are always many factors, here in Tulsa we have 4,900 Mechanics at the present so more than likely we would have our own Local, now a Line station with only 200 Mechanics or so probably wouldn't get it's own Local, I suspect that would be the case with AMFA too though, there are benefits to having a lot of Members in your area, bottom line it's all about the cards, If AMFA supporters want AMFA in then they need to start busting their a$$eS off & getting cards because their fighting an uphill battle, a casual approach won't cut it.

SFO has about 3000 mechanics there and they were split between 2 different locals as a present to the LA local. In fact, out of ALL the new UA stations, the only local that is mechanics or even an airline local, is 19 in Houston. Every other station, mechanics are in some sort of truck drivers, meat packing local.

Don't believe everything they tell you. The teamsters will say anything you want to hear to get in the door. I've seen it more than once. At UA, they told them once they got elected in, "we can't do that, that was the organizing divisions promise."

 

[whoop whoop]

Well I don't know what area you work in but come by the cam building & you will see some.

I have never been to TUL, but as far as what I am getting, the major support you are seeing is in one particular building ( cam building). Does this building hold the majority of people?

 

[Raptorman49]

I have never been to TUL, but as far as what I am getting, the major support you are seeing is in one particular building ( cam building). Does this building hold the majority of people?

There is a lot of support in the Cam building for sure but there is support in every area that I have been to at the Tulsa base even in the hangers, I work in the Cam building so obviously I see more of it than anywhere else at the base.

 

[Raptorman49]

SFO has about 3000 mechanics there and they were split between 2 different locals as a present to the LA local. In fact, out of ALL the new UA stations, the only local that is mechanics or even an airline local, is 19 in Houston. Every other station, mechanics are in some sort of truck drivers, meat packing local.

Don't believe everything they tell you. The teamsters will say anything you want to hear to get in the door. I've seen it more than once. At UA, they told them once they got elected in, "we can't do that, that was the organizing divisions promise."

Whoop Unions love to say we can do that when they screw you or we can't do that when you want something & their all corrupt as hell which is why I'm not a Union Man ..... I'm a Man in a Union, I will never be excited about ANY Union & I'm pretty excited about retiring & never being involved with Union's again, America is losing more Union's every year & has been for quite sometime, most people I run into in my day to day activities who are not Union are glad they aren't in a Union & don't have good things to say about them.

 

[TWU informer]

Whoop Unions love to say we can do that when they screw you or we can't do that when you want something & their all corrupt as hell which is why I'm not a Union Man ..... I'm a Man in a Union, I will never be excited about ANY Union & I'm pretty excited about retiring & never being involved with Union's again, America is losing more Union's every year & has been for quite sometime, most people I run into in my day to day activities who are not Union are glad they aren't in a Union & don't have good things to say about them.

Nuff said there!
Sign my Teamster Card but I am not a Union Man.
And you AMFA guys are not getting it done.
Your real intention sounds more like get an election and then campaign for NO UNION.
Just like an industrial union member, trained, negative, obedient, and confused.
The only reason you type this trash, is you belong to a union that is "they" instead of "we".
You always speak for everyone but yourself, but are really excited about yourself and your anti-union thoughts.
Nuff said!

 

[Raptorman49]

Nuff said there!
Sign my Teamster Card but I am not a Union Man.
And you AMFA guys are not getting it done.
Your real intention to get an election and then campaign for NO UNION.

Sounds like a great idea but No I wouldn't because I don't think it would fly, I can live with being in a Union & Paying dues (Ugh) but if I have to be in one I want to get my monies worth.
The Members in the TWU almost never vote the way I do on contracts .... A down side to Unions, very frustrating.
I wouldn't have a clue how to remove a Union.