Industrial vs. Craft

[Raptorman49]

Thanks for the quote. I will circulate the Teamsters view for all those outside of Tulsa. Good luck getting 6,000 cards out of your 4,900. You have been a real help in killing any potential Teamsters drive.

Dave I don't represent the Teamsters I'm just collecting cards to get to a vote, I am not a spokeman for the Teamsters nor am I a Teamster cheerleader, I'm just supporting the competing Union that has the most support in Tulsa, to be honest if it wasn't for the Teamsters being so popular I wouldn't even be involved, I had already resolved that we were going to be stuck with the TWU forever until the Teamster drive took off like a out of control grass fire, hard not to be involved when a drive is that easy.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Dave I don't represent the Teamsters I'm just collecting cards to get to a vote, I am not a spokeman for the Teamsters no am I a Teamster cheerleader, I'm just supporting the competing Union that has the most support in Tulsa, to be honest if it wasn't for the Teamsters being so popular I wouldn't even be involved, I had already resolved that we were going to be stuck with the TWU forever until the Teamster drive took off like a out of control grass fire, hard not to be involved when a drive it that easy.

I'm happy for your involvement and your quotes

 

[TWU informer]

Dave I don't represent the Teamsters I'm just collecting cards to get to a vote, I am not a spokeman for the Teamsters nor am I a Teamster cheerleader, I'm just supporting the competing Union that has the most support in Tulsa, to be honest if it wasn't for the Teamsters being so popular I wouldn't even be involved, I had already resolved that we were going to be stuck with the TWU forever until the Teamster drive took off like a out of control grass fire, hard not to be involved when a drive is that easy.

I have no idea where you guage the "most support" because this organizing drive for AMFA Started in late May, what less than 6-7 weeks ago. And you already have declared a winner. Well once again we disagree, but at least you are here now communicating and showing interest in change.

You need to bring all of your Teamsters supporters to the AMFA informational meeting coming to Tulsa soon. It is fine whoever they support but at least encourage them to hear both sides and keep informed.

I don't want easy, I want real change. I will be a Craft Unionist until I die. But more importantly I am freedom loving American.
Don't be a follower, be a leader.

 

[Raptorman49]

I'm happy for your involvement and your quotes

Tex-Mech I don't know who you are and it doesn't matter, you are from AFW & that's great I think the Mechanics at AFW should sign whatever cards they want & the Mechanics in Tulsa should sign the cards they want if the two stations have differen't preferences then that's fine.

 

[TWU informer]

Tex-Mech I don't know who you are and it doesn't matter, you are from AFW & that's great I think the Mechanics at AFW should sign whatever cards they want & the Mechanics in Tulsa should sign the cards they want if the two stations have differen't preferences then that's fine.

You really should retract your statment that those that get laid-off will have invalid cards.
That is absolutely incorrect.

In fact that is the main reason the TWU is running scared and needed help from the IBT.

 

[Raptorman49]

I have no idea where you guage the "most support" because this organizing drive for AMFA Started in late May, what less than 6-7 weeks ago. And you already have declared a winner. Well once again we disagree, but at least you are here now communicating and showing interest in change.

You need to bring all of your Teamsters supporters to the AMFA informational meeting coming to Tulsa soon. It is fine whoever they support but at least encourage them to hear both sides and keep informed.

I don't want easy, I want real change. I will be a Craft Unionist until I die. But more importantly I am freedom loving American.
Don't be a follower, be a leader.

I would be more than happy to walk around the base with you Dave & talk about what areas are supporting which Union, I would love to see where AMFA is strong at the base, I haven't seen it but I haven't been to all area's of the base, we can talk stragedies and if I can help you get more AMFA cards I'm all for it.

 

[Raptorman49]

You really should retract your statment that those that get laid-off will have invalid cards.
That is absolutely incorrect.

In fact that is the main reason the TWU is running scared and needed help from the IBT.

I retract my statement, you definitely have more knowledge in that area than I do, I just assumed that was the case .... I stand corrected.

 

[Raptorman49]

Come by and see me Dave & we can talk .... that would be great.
You have mail.

 

[Raptorman49]

I just joined this board again a couple of days ago & haven't viewed the post's from others yet because their are sooooo many & that's a lot of reading.... LOL

Dave when you come by you can fill me in on who is who on this board & what the various agenda's are of the players .... I would be very interested in that.

 

[whoop whoop]

I will take Informers word on raptorman being an upstanding person.


To raptorman, if your intentions are really for the best of the A&P class and craft, I would like to inform you on some of the teamster lies. They are not well liked at CAL and I'm sure less at UAL, they have not done one thing to advance our profession forward and everything out of their mouth is the company can do this and the company can do that.

If you are truly wanting better for the profession, AMFA is the only way to go. I will tell you from experience, the teamsters are no better than the iam or twu. You might as well save yourself time and trouble and stick with the twu if you want the teamsters in there. There are NO differences from either union.

Both are undemocratic, authoritative, pro company unions. Everything I read and hear about the twu from AA people, I can substitute with the teamsters.

You will elect nobody of importance,and have a voice for nothing.

Otherwise, keep on pushing for the teamsters, and if by chance they get elected, you will get your nice un-appointed teamster job and be a good bullshit artist just like them.

Me personally, I think they already promised you the teamsters gifts and you already sold out. By the way you are writing, those are the same words of the teamsters I have heard before. More than once!!

 

[Raptorman49]

I will take Informers word on raptorman being an upstanding person.


To raptorman, if your intentions are really for the best of the A&P class and craft, I would like to inform you on some of the teamster lies. They are not well liked at CAL and I'm sure less at UAL, they have not done one thing to advance our profession forward and everything out of their mouth is the company can do this and the company can do that.

If you are truly wanting better for the profession, AMFA is the only way to go. I will tell you from experience, the teamsters are no better than the iam or twu. You might as well save yourself time and trouble and stick with the twu if you want the teamsters in there. There are NO differences from either union.

Both are undemocratic, authoritative, pro company unions. Everything I read and hear about the twu from AA people, I can substitute with the teamsters.

You will elect nobody of importance,and have a voice for nothing.

Otherwise, keep on pushing for the teamsters, and if by chance they get elected, you will get your nice un-appointed teamster job and be a good bullshit artist just like them.

Me personally, I think they already promised you the teamsters gifts and you already sold out. By the way you are writing, those are the same words of the teamsters I have heard before. More than once!!

Whoop I don't doubt that AMFA would be better for A&P Mechanics than the Teamsters because they are a craft Union & I have already stated that I would prefer a craft Union over an Industrial Union, I am only pushing the Teamsters for two reasons #1 they clearly have a lot more support in Tulsa from what I'm seeing & #2 I don't have a problem with having the Teamsters, they have never done anything to me personally only the TWU has as for Mechanics at other stations not likeing them I have no doubt their are both Mechanics that like the Teamsters & AMFA at other companies, United just voted out AMFA to replace it with the Teamsters if they now think they don't like the Teamsters then I guess they will make a change again, Every Union has it pro's & Con's for me it's not about who would be the best Union for Mechanics at AA it's about who can get enough cards to call for a vote..... that's a huge hurtle to get over, as far as i'm concerned everyone should sign both cards & if both competing Unions get enough cards we vote for who we want .... pretty sure that either AMFA or the Teamsters would win the vote, one thing most people agree on at the base is that the TWU isn't very popular.

 

[whoop whoop]

Whoop I don't doubt that AMFA would be better for A&P Mechanics than the Teamsters because they are a craft Union & I have already stated that I would prefer a craft Union over an Industrial Union, I am only pushing the Teamsters for two reasons #1 they clearly have a lot more support in Tulsa from what I'm seeing & #2 I don't have a problem with having the Teamsters, they have never done anything to me personally only the TWU has as for Mechanics at other stations not likeing them I have no doubt their are both Mechanics that like the Teamsters & AMFA at other companies, United just voted out AMFA to replace it with the Teamsters if they now think they don't like the Teamsters then I guess they will make a change again, Every Union has it pro's & Con's for me it's not about who would be the best Union for Mechanics at AA it's about who can get enough cards to call for a vote..... that's a huge hurtle to get over, as far as i'm concerned everyone should sign both cards & if both competing Unions get enough cards we vote for who we want .... pretty sure that either AMFA or the Teamsters would win the vote, one thing most people agree on at the base is that the TWU isn't very popular.

I would ask you to take some time and read some of these threads in full. If you are truly what you suggest and have not been bought already, you will realize going to the teamsters will not change a thing from the twu. Backing the teamsters because of some perceived superior support is laughable.

You are saying you don't care how they will represent you. All you care about is how much support they have. I have to question either your intellect or you sincerity.

If the majority jumped off of the GW Bridge in NY, would you? You don't sound like you would be a good leader to me. No disrespect.

 

[Buck]

Before I would even consider the Teamsters for their pension alone, I would have to ask an already asked question.

What is it going to cost me to get their pension?

 

[TWU informer]

I cannot grasp the idea of supporting the Teamsters because a shop area, a maintenance base, or some other group is showing willingness to sign cards.

What about the more global idea of getting ALL MECHANICS into one Union? What about being in a Union Membership that ALL of your dues money, ALL of the resources, and every thought and every second of every day is about advancing this profession?

Maybe I am different than some but I view this as a battle for the profession, not a battle for a shop area, the tulsa base, or even just American Airlines AMT's.

The answer to the woes of this profession is to cease looking at the problem from such a personal and close to home view, and look at this issue from a total profession perspective.

I am working on getting the tranascript PDF's from the NWA/AMFA Presidential Emergency Board hearing in Philadelphia. This is the greatest Mechanics story ever told, and there was ever only one Union that could make such a presentation, and that Union is AMFA. I was there and witnessed this presentation, and since those three days my understanding of what this is about has been more global thinking and less individual thinking.

 

[Raptorman49]

I would ask you to take some time and read some of these threads in full. If you are truly what you suggest and have not been bought already, you will realize going to the teamsters will not change a thing from the twu. Backing the teamsters because of some perceived superior support is laughable.

You are saying you don't care how they will represent you. All you care about is how much support they have. I have to question either your intellect or you sincerity.

If the majority jumped off of the GW Bridge in NY, would you? You don't sound like you would be a good leader to me. No disrespect.

Whoop we can agree to disagree and the only way I could truely know whether I would like or dislike another particular Union would be to be in that Union, I have only been in the TWU, I do know that it wouldn't be hard to find people who dislike both AMFA & the Teamsters that have been in both Unions that is the nature of everything in life, Please do not put words in my mouth, I did not say I don't care how the Teamsters represent me, I have never been in the Teamsters so I have no idea how they or AMFA would represent me until I have actual experience with either of them, taking someones word for how either of them are isn't going to happen, all I know is that neither of them is the TWU & thats good enough for me for now, you may beleive there isn't a difference between the two but I don't believe that, there are in fact many differences between them, they have different Leaders, Bylaws, they represent different companies, there size is different, one is in the Afl-cio one isn't, one is raiding companies one isn't, one has pensions one doesn't, I could go on all day but you get the point.
No I wouldn't jump off a bridge if the Majority did but if the Majority went on Vacation in Hawaii I just might go too, Point being that following the Majority isn't always a bad thing, Insults will get you nowhere, trying to Manipulate me is a waste of your time especially if you think insults is the way to do it, Insults never accomplish anything but convince the person you are insulting that you have ISSUES and aren't worthy of a conversation, you can get your point across without insulting people ..... you should try it.
As for being a Leader I am NOT interested in a Leadership position in "ANY" Union, that is not where my Interest's lie.
I am interested in replacing the TWU.