Industrial vs. Craft

[whoop whoop]

Whoop we can agree to disagree and the only way I could truely know whether I would like or dislike another particular Union would be to be in that Union, I have only been in the TWU, I do know that it wouldn't be hard to find people who dislike both AMFA & the Teamsters that have been in both Unions that is the nature of everything in life, Please do not put words in my mouth, I did not say I don't care how the Teamsters represent me, I have never been in the Teamsters so I have no idea how they or AMFA would represent me until I have actual experience with either of them, taking someones word for how either of them are isn't going to happen, all I know is that neither of them is the TWU & thats good enough for me for now, you may beleive there isn't a difference between the two but I don't believe that, there are in fact many differences between them, they have different Leaders, Bylaws, they represent different companies, there size is different, one is in the Afl-cio one isn't, one is raiding companies one isn't, one has pensions one doesn't, I could go on all day but you get the point.
No I wouldn't jump off a bridge if the Majority did but if the Majority went on Vacation in Hawaii I just might go too, Point being that following the Majority isn't always a bad thing, Insults will get you nowhere, trying to Manipulate me is a waste of your time especially if you think insults is the way to do it, Insults never accomplish anything but convince the person you are insulting that you have ISSUES and aren't worthy of a conversation, you can get your point across without insulting people ..... you should try it.
As for being a Leader I am NOT interested in a Leadership position in "ANY" Union, that is not where my Interest's lie.
I am interested in replacing the TWU.

Thanks for the civil reply raptorman, but I never insulted you or tried to manipulate you. So, since you have never been in either union, the reason you are backing the teamsters is they have more support were you work. I just want to be sure I am getting it correct.

Informer, remember this, god forbid the teamsters win, I put money this guy will be "APPOINTED" Business Agent if he is one of the inside organizers handing teamster cards.

 

[Raptorman49]

I believe that the Teamsters contacted the TWU & told them that they are in need of money to help fund their Pensions & that the Mechanics contacted them expressing interest in having Teamster representation, they informed the TWU thay they were going to have a card drive & that it wasn't personal but just business, they Informed the TWU that as long as they didn't attack the Teamsters then the Teamsters wouldn't attack them & that the Teamsters would only organize the Mechanics & not all 7 title groups under those conditions, I beleive that Jim Little thought about how powerful the Teamsters are & how a fight with them wouldn't be in the TWU best interest & he didn't want to risk losing all 7 title groups so the TWU agreed to let the Mechanics decide & not get into a fight with the Teamsters, that's why at the present they are not bad mouthing each other but that could always change if either side breaks the deal.
Yes I know some don't believe that this is the case & that's fine, we can agree to disagree, I for one believe the Teamster card drive is very real.

 

[Tex-Mech]

I believe that the Teamsters contacted the TWU & told them that they are in need of money to help fund their Pensions & that the Mechanics contacted them expressing interest in having Teamster representation, they informed the TWU thay they were going to have a card drive & that it wasn't personal but just business, they Informed the TWU that as long as they didn't attack the Teamsters then the Teamsters wouldn't attack them & that the Teamsters would only organize the Mechanics & not all 7 title groups under those conditions, I beleive that Jim Little thought about how powerful the Teamsters are & how a fight with them wouldn't be in the TWU best interest & he didn't want to risk losing all 7 title groups so the TWU agreed to let the Mechanics decide & not get into a fight with the Teamsters, that's why at the present they are not bad mouthing each other but that could always change if either side breaks the deal.
Yes I know some don't believe that this is the case & that's fine, we can agree to disagree, I for one believe the Teamster card drive is very real.

You believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny by chance?

 

[Raptorman49]

Thanks for the civil reply raptorman, but I never insulted you or tried to manipulate you. So, since you have never been in either union, the reason you are backing the teamsters is they have more support were you work. I just want to be sure I am getting it correct.

Informer, remember this, god forbid the teamsters win, I put money this guy will be "APPOINTED" Business Agent if he is one of the inside organizers handing teamster cards.

That is correct I am backing the Teamsters because they have more support In Tulsa, I have NO Interest in being anything in ANY Union except a Member & really I would just assume not have a Union at AA because they all have Issue's & I don't really trust any of them.
from what I'm seeing it looks like they might actually have enough support to get enough cards to get to an Election but time will tell.
I'm not a serious enough player in the Teamster drive to concern yourself over so I wouldn't.
I put waaay more effort into the 2003 AMFA drive than I am in this Teamster drive for sure, I have no intention of putting that kind of effort into ANY card drive again as I am no longer Passionate about it like I once was, Dave was right when he said I use to be Passionate but not anymore, now i'm putting some effort into it because getting Teamster cards is easy but don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[TWU informer]

I believe that the Teamsters contacted the TWU & told them that they are in need of money to help fund their Pensions & that the Mechanics contacted them expressing interest in having Teamster representation, they informed the TWU thay they were going to have a card drive & that it wasn't personal but just business, they Informed the TWU that as long as they didn't attack the Teamsters then the Teamsters wouldn't attack them & that the Teamsters would only organize the Mechanics & not all 7 title groups under those conditions, I beleive that Jim Little thought about how powerful the Teamsters are & how a fight with them wouldn't be in the TWU best interest & he didn't want to risk losing all 7 title groups so the TWU agreed to let the Mechanics decide & not get into a fight with the Teamsters, that's why at the present they are not bad mouthing each other but that could always change if either side breaks the deal.
Yes I know some don't believe that this is the case & that's fine, we can agree to disagree, I for one believe the Teamster card drive is very real.

Why do you suppose the Teamsters need "money to fund their pensions"?

Are they another greedy group that has made promises to retirees that they cannot keep?

And so it was just coincidence that the Teamsters showed up needing money, within 10 days of the AMFA drive starting?

And also just coincidence that the Teamsters showed up within a month of the first 1113c motion decision on contract abrogation.

And even though Tulsa based TWU Officers and Teamsters reps at JFK claim the TWU called the Teamsters for a "bailout" drive, you still believe your version of the events leading up to the drive?

And this meeting within weeks of AA filing Chapter 11 was also just a coincidence:
http://www.teamster....ovember-12-2011

This past week, representatives of the IBT and TWU met in Washington, do discuss areas of mutual interest. The following joint statement was released:
The Teamsters Airline Division has had a relationship with the Transport Workers Union Air Transport Division for some time now. Between our two Unions, we represent roughly 30,000 in the Aircraft Maintenance and related Class and Craft.
We have joined forces on a number of occasions including the fight on foreign outsourcing of aircraft maintenance and other issues that are of importance to our collective membership. The meeting, held in the TWU offices in Washington DC, included a vibrant discussion on MRO’s both foreign and domestic and what we can do to ensure the quality of Aircraft Maintenance Safety in the future.

The meeting was hosted by TWU Workforce Development Specialist Gordon Clark. Present from the TWU were, John Conley Administrative Assistant to the International President, Chris Oriyano TWU Business Process and Research Analyst, John Donnelly Director of Strategic research, Angela Cox Strategic Research dept. and Attorney David Rosen.
Representing the IBT were, Bob Fisher International Representative Airline Division, Cassandra Ogren Strategic Research and Campaigns, Airline Division Attorney Nick Manicone and Chris Moore International Representative Airline Division.

Meetings will continue in the coming months as we continue explore synergies that will allow us to drive issues of importance to both of our mechanic and related members.

Sure is alot coincidence there but whatever you say Mr. McCoy. I guess anything is possible, the Tulsa Base AMT's did side with the Line AMT's and vote no on more than one contract ratification. That's a first too.

 

[Raptorman49]

You believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny by chance?

Hmmm so you really think that post was helpful ?
It's been a long time since I have been on this board but can't help but notice how some love to pick a fight if you don't believe what they want you to believe.
The Teamsters & AMFA battling each other will serve no useful purpose & will only help the TWU stay in power at AA, The TWU wants that to happen & I have no doubt that some posters on here are actually TWU supporters trying to start a fight between AMFA & Teamsters, I have no intention of falling prey to their plan.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Hmmm so you really think that post was helpful ?

Yes because I hope you reread your own post to see if you believe the BS you just wrote. I will post it again for you.

I believe that the Teamsters contacted the TWU & told them that they are in need of money to help fund their Pensions & that the Mechanics contacted them expressing interest in having Teamster representation, they informed the TWU thay they were going to have a card drive & that it wasn't personal but just business, they Informed the TWU that as long as they didn't attack the Teamsters then the Teamsters wouldn't attack them & that the Teamsters would only organize the Mechanics & not all 7 title groups under those conditions, I beleive that Jim Little thought about how powerful the Teamsters are & how a fight with them wouldn't be in the TWU best interest & he didn't want to risk losing all 7 title groups so the TWU agreed to let the Mechanics decide & not get into a fight with the Teamsters, that's why at the present they are not bad mouthing each other but that could always change if either side breaks the deal.
Yes I know some don't believe that this is the case & that's fine, we can agree to disagree, I for one believe the Teamster card drive is very real.

Do you believe that the TWU would walk away from $15 million a year from all 7 groups in dues, or the $7 million from the mechanics in exchange for not being attacked by the Teamsters? You can't be serious with your beliefs.

 

[Raptorman49]

Why do you suppose the Teamsters need "money to fund their pensions"?

Are they another greedy group that has made promises to retirees that they cannot keep?

And so it was just coincidence that the Teamsters showed up needing money, within 10 days of the AMFA drive starting?

And also just coincidence that the Teamsters showed up within a month of the first 1113c motion decision on contract abrogation.

And even though Tulsa based TWU Officers and Teamsters reps at JFK claim the TWU called the Teamsters for a "bailout" drive, you still believe your version of the events leading up to the drive?

And this meeting within weeks of AA filing Chapter 11 was also just a coincidence:
http://www.teamster....ovember-12-2011




Sure is alot coincidence there but whatever you say Mr. McCoy. I guess anything is possible, the Tulsa Base AMT's did side with the Line AMT's and vote no on more than one contract ratification. That's a first too.

You know why they need money for their Pensions Dave, I have no doubt that you have done some research on the matter just as I have (Google is a great tool ;-)) but to comment on that would be berating the Teamsters so I will have to pass on that question.
And yes I think some things are coincidence & some things were clearly planned timing for both AMFA & the Teamsters, there is a reason why both Unions are having a card drive right now, with the TWU offering crap contracts their are a lot of angry Mechanics at AA & both competing Unions want to take advantage of that.

 

[Raptorman49]

Yes because I hope you reread your own post to see if you believe the BS you just wrote. I will post it again for you.



Do you believe that the TWU would walk away from $15 million a year from all 7 groups in dues, or the $7 million from the mechanics in exchange for not being attacked by the Teamsters? You can't be serious with your beliefs.

Yes I do believe that because I think both Unions have realized that attacking each other will only help AMFA & the Teamsters get more cards .... Let's hope AMFA & the Teamsters are that smart.

 

[TWU informer]

Yes I do believe that because I think both Unions have realized that attacking each other will only help AMFA & the Teamsters get more cards .... Let's hope AMFA & the Teamsters are that smart.

You need to stick around and read Anomaly's postings here. Don't get too far out there on that rope lead they have on you.

Once you have read a few of Anomaly's postings, notice the date he joined these forums. Then you can add one more coincidence to the long list already generated.

And whatever you do, be sure to be aware of the Teamsters, and be sure to

have no intention of falling prey to their plan.

As you say it......

that one made me choke on my apple core. Too damn funny!

What is interesting is that of every person I have heard of on the Tulsa base passing out Teamsters cards, not a single one of them would be willing to stand up and be a leader in the local if they were to succeed and were not really just a ruse to begin with. No leaders, just a group of followers!

 

[Raptorman49]

You need to stick around and read Anomaly' post here. Don't get too far out there on that rope lead they have on you.

And notice the date he joined these forums.

And whatever you do, be sure to be aware of the Teamsters, and be sure to
As you say it......

that one made me choke on my apple core. Too damn funny!

What is interesting is that of every person I have heard of on the Tulsa base passing out Teamsters cards, not a single one of them would be willing to stand up and be a leader in the local is they succeed. No leaders, just a group of followers!

I don't know what agenda the differnt players have on this board yet as I stated before, I'm just getting here & trying to figure all that out, Dave I don't believe you have all the answers anymore than I do, I know you think that you know exactly what the TWU & the Teamsters are up too but you could be wrong, time will tell.

 

[TWU informer]

I don't know what agenda the differnt players have on this board yet as I stated before, I'm just getting here & trying to figure all that out, Dave I don't believe you have all the answers anymore than I do, I know you think that you know exactly what the TWU & the Teamsters are up too but you could be wrong, time will tell.

Like I said before, the only thing that saved the TWU last time was to prevent the election. And you know they pulled out all of the stops to insure that you never got a ballot in your hands.

I believe this is the next chapter in that same strategy. Industrial Unions are professionals at playing dirty politics, because that has been their main focus instead of the profession for over 60 years. You can surely see that is true.

By the way, have you done a google search on the "Teamsters for a Democratic Union" and ever thought about why such a group would exist if the Teamsters are what they claim they are? What about all the stories and youtube videos on the organized crime involvement to the point of government oversight of the union?

 

[Raptorman49]

Dave come by the shop or I will come see you & you can show me why you think AMFA has a lot more support at the base than the Teamsters & I will show you why I think the Teamsters have a lot more support at the base, Guess I should ask you first which competing Union you think has more support at the Tulsa base ??

 

[Tex-Mech]

Dave come by the shop or I will come see you & you can show me why you think AMFA has a lot more support at the base than the Teamsters & I will show you why I think the Teamsters have a lot more support at the base, Guess I should ask you first which competing Union you think has more support at the Tulsa base ??

Having the support of the base without AFW and the line gets you nowhere. If you want an election, there is an option but it is not with the Reamsters.

 

[Raptorman49]

Like I said before, the only thing that saved the TWU last time was to prevent the election. And you know they pulled out all of the stops to insure that you never got a ballot in your hands.

I believe this is the next chapter in that same strategy. Industrial Unions are professionals at playing dirty politics, because that has been their main focus instead of the profession for over 60 years. You can surely see that is true.

Yes but a lot of things have changed since that last Election, AMFA no longer has as many Airlines as it once did & some blame them for that, Many people I know who signed an AMFA card in 2003 refuse to sign one now no matter what I say to them, everytime I wear the AMFA shirt with all the Airlines on the back I catch flack about it, Mechanics pointing out that several of those Airlines are no longer AMFA so I stopped wearing it & started wearing only the bat shirt, AMFA has somewhat of a black eye now so many won't support them anymore, I don't think it's fair but it is what it is.