Industrial vs. Craft

[Raptorman49]

Blind leading the Blind!!

Hey Don
How's it going in AFW ?
I know you really want AMFA to get in at AA .... "I get it", I would love to see that happen but i'm just not seeing the support for it in Tulsa since AMFA's setbacks, don't blame you for trying but from what i'm seeing the Teamsters have the best chance of getting to an Election, they have a lot of money & are using it to give them a lot of exposure at the Tulsa base, I know some don't believe the drive is real & at first I was suspicious too but now I beleive that it is real, I suspect that as Dave pointed out in another thread it has a lot to do with their Pensions not doing so well, I'm fine with that as a motive, we all have our agenda's & the Teamsters are no different, being as their Pensions are guaranteed by the PBGC I would still volunteer to be in it.

 

[Tex-Mech]

From my observation the Teamsters have a lot more support in Tulsa than Amfa so I have to go with who has the best chance of getting enough cards to call for an Election, I know you have noticed how much support the Teamsters have in Tulsa ....

When you are done getting Teamsters card in Tulsa, come on down to AFW where your welcome won't be so nice. This is AMFA country here, and and from what I here around the system...the Teamsters can't get a card out signed. So you can waste your time being a Reamsters cheerleader on behalf of the twu international, or you can get onboard with those outside of tulsa.

 

[Raptorman49]

Let's review 2003 since you brought that up as a failure in your mind.

What happened? We had enough cards signed and then what happened?

In 2003 the TWU did everything in their power to prevent you and me from getting a ballot to remove them.
Do you agree?

And today nothing has changed, only they brought in the wolf is sheeps clothing this time and you jumped all over it at full speed ahead.

Do you think the TWU would not do everything in their power to prevent that ballot reaching your hands again?

But here you are attempting to justify supporting another industrial while claiming your shop did not sign AMFA cards.

WE HAD ENOUGH CARDS SIGNED IN 2003!!!!

We were screwed by the NBM, TWU, and AA Alliance. Now we are facing the TWU/IBT alliance and where are you at?

And in your mind, somehow you have twisted that into an AMFA/IBT alliance to get rid of the TWU.
Are you serious?

Yes Dave I agree we had enough cards in 2003 & the TWU & AA cheated to keep us from having an Election & yes I agree they will try to do it again with AMFA or the Teamsters but I don't agree that the TWU & the Teamsters are in alliance in the Teamsters drive & it's not a real drive, I think it is a real drive because the Teamsters want/Need more money more than they want the TWU friendship, Money is a very powerful motivator.
As for AMFA Teamster alliance I simply think that everyone should sign BOTH cards & hopefully one or maybe both will get enough cards for an Election & then we can all vote for whichever Union we want, It won't be the TWU i'm pretty sure of that, I signed both cards on the first day of both Drives.

 

[Raptorman49]

When you are done getting Teamsters card in Tulsa, come on down to AFW where your welcome won't be so nice. This is AMFA country here, and and from what I here around the system...the Teamsters can't get a card out signed. So you can waste your time being a Reamsters cheerleader on behalf of the twu international, or you can get onboard with those outside of tulsa.

Tex-Mech I'm really not to concerned with what is happening at the Line stations because as I said they have made it clear they aren't concerned with what is happening in Tulsa so as far as i'm concerned it's every base for it's self and Tulsa has 4,900+ in its craft & class so that makes all the other stations in the Minority ..... It is what it is. B)

 

[whoop whoop]

I do not know if you guys know who raptorman49 is, but he is getting his views directly from the teamsters PR dept. That is one of the strategies they used at UAL.

" I like AMFA, but nobody else does. So, I will just go with the teamsters, oh poor me." This is meant to dissuade the not so knowledgeable members into thinking, " Well he likes AMFA also but he is signing a teamsters card. What the hell, I'll sign one also."

It's pure bullkaka!!!!

AMFA has plenty of support. It's the SCAB teamsters that stoop to low tactics like this that have no support. They have to lie, cheat and rob for their support.

 

[Raptorman49]

When you are done getting Teamsters card in Tulsa, come on down to AFW where your welcome won't be so nice. This is AMFA country here, and and from what I here around the system...the Teamsters can't get a card out signed. So you can waste your time being a Reamsters cheerleader on behalf of the twu international, or you can get onboard with those outside of tulsa.

Besides Tex-Mech haven't you heard AFW is going away very soon so you will either be in Tulsa soon or on the Street, doesn't much matter what AFW does when you consider that does it ? The AFW Mechanics that get laid off cards won't count no matter which cards they sign.

 

[TWU informer]

Yes Dave I agree we had enough cards in 2003 & the TWU & AA cheated to keep us from having an Election & yes I agree they will try to do it again with AMFA or the Teamsters but I don't agree that the TWU & the Teamsters are in alliance in the Teamsters drive & it's not a real drive, I think it is a real drive because the Teamsters want/Need more money more than they want the TWU friendship, Money is a very powerful motivator.
As for AMFA Teamster alliance I simply think that everyone should sign BOTH cards & hopefully one or maybe both will get enough cards for an Election & then we can all vote for whichever Union we want, It won't be the TWU i'm pretty sure of that, I signed both cards on the first day of both Drives.

I do believe that your intentions are to get rid of the TWU. We just have some differences on the motives of the Teamsters, and more so on what they have to offer in the way of real change. It is Ok to disagree, as long as we continue to discuss openly what our options are and most importantly the members get a ballot in their hands.

I have never sated that nobody should sign a Teamsters card, however you have passed out Teamsters fliers that clearly state NOT to sign an AMFA card. Why would the Teamsters say that anyway?

We will still have plenty of time, and the discussions will only get more intense and detailed as time goes on.

Just keep getting both cards signed and turned in and be sure to explain why the members must sign both.
Once the election gets called then everyone will have the same voting power and the majority will rule.

I will try to come out and visit with you next week.

 

[TWU informer]

Besides Tex-Mech haven't you heard AFW is going away very soon so you will either be in Tulsa soon or on the Street, doesn't much matter what AFW does when you consider that does it ? The AFW Mechanics that get laid off cards won't count no matter which cards they sign.

Did you not learn anything during the last drive?

As long as they have recall rights, their cards count and they will vote. That is how the TWU used the TWA AMT's to screw us out of a vote. how could you forget? Maybe were not involved as close as you think, or would never have made that bold face lie in public.

Come on Dan, just because you support the Teamsters, don't let them make a liar out of ya.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Tex-Mech I'm really not to concerned with what is happening at the Line stations because as I said they have made it clear they aren't concerned with what is happening in Tulsa so as far as i'm concerned it's every base for it's self and Tulsa has 4,900+ in its craft & class so that makes all the other stations in the Minority ..... It is what it is. B)

Thanks for the quote. I will circulate the Teamsters view for all those outside of Tulsa. Good luck getting 6,000 cards out of your 4,900. You have been a real help in killing any potential Teamsters drive.

 

[Raptorman49]

I do not know if you guys know who raptorman49 is, but he is getting his views directly from the teamsters PR dept. That is one of the strategies they used at UAL.

" I like AMFA, but nobody else does. So, I will just go with the teamsters, oh poor me." This is meant to dissuade the not so knowledgeable members into thinking, " Well he likes AMFA also but he is signing a teamsters card. What the hell, I'll sign one also."

It's pure bullkaka!!!!

AMFA has plenty of support. It's the SCAB teamsters that stoop to low tactics like this that have no support. They have to lie, cheat and rob for their support.

You don't know who I am but both aapitbull & Twu informer know who I am and they both know I truely do like AMFA & did sign a card on the first day of the drive but it's not about me, my views are my own & do not come from the Teamsters office, I agree that their are down sides to being in an Industrial Union .... Never disagreed with that but from my perception they are getting a lot more support in Tulsa .... maybe not at the Line stations but once again I don't work at a Line station.

 

[TWU informer]

I do not know if you guys know who raptorman49 is, but he is getting his views directly from the teamsters PR dept. That is one of the strategies they used at UAL.

" I like AMFA, but nobody else does. So, I will just go with the teamsters, oh poor me." This is meant to dissuade the not so knowledgeable members into thinking, " Well he likes AMFA also but he is signing a teamsters card. What the hell, I'll sign one also."

It's pure bullkaka!!!!

AMFA has plenty of support. It's the SCAB teamsters that stoop to low tactics like this that have no support. They have to lie, cheat and rob for their support.

He is actually not a bad man or the deamon you are making him. He just tends to get emotional and can be misguided at times.
But I will vouch for him as not being any evil anti-mechanic maniac and once all the facts are out in public, he will be in the right spot.
I will leave it at that, but just know he is not a bad man at all.

As I said, he and the Teamsters have opened up avenues in Tulsa that were never available before. We will use them to our advantage and he could well be a hero in the end.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Besides Tex-Mech haven't you heard AFW is going away very soon so you will either be in Tulsa soon or on the Street, doesn't much matter what AFW does when you consider that does it ? The AFW Mechanics that get laid off cards won't count no matter which cards they sign.

Another great quote. Keep up the good work. This one will be going viral tomorrow on the base under the heading of "The Teamster View on AFW" I'm going to give you a thumbs up for this one just for the cards it will produce.

 

[Raptorman49]

I do believe that your intentions are to get rid of the TWU. We just have some differences on the motives of the Teamsters, and more so on what they have to offer in the way of real change. It is Ok to disagree, as long as we continue to discuss openly what our options are and most importantly the members get a ballot in their hands.

I have never sated that nobody should sign a Teamsters card, however you have passed out Teamsters fliers that clearly state NOT to sign an AMFA card. Why would the Teamsters say that anyway?

We will still have plenty of time, and the discussions will only get more intense and detailed as time goes on.

Just keep getting both cards signed and turned in and be sure to explain why the members must sign both.
Once the election gets called then everyone will have the same voting power and the majority will rule.

I will try to come out and visit with you next week.

I agree with you that the Teamster flyer should not have stated to not sign AMFA cards I too have a problem with that statement & have told them that I do at the Teamster office, I have actually been blacking out the part that says don't sign an AMFA card & only leaving the Yes you can sign more that 1 card when I put those flyers up, Chris Made those flyers, I have asked him many times to NOT say anything negative about AMFA in flyers on on posters but obviously he did what he wanted.

 

[TWU informer]

You don't know who I am but both aapitbull & Twu informer know who I am and they both know I truely do like AMFA & did sign a card on the first day of the drive but it's not about me, my views are my own & do not come from the Teamsters office, I agree that their are down sides to being in an Industrial Union .... Never disagreed with that but from my perception they are getting a lot more support in Tulsa .... maybe not at the Line stations but once again I don't work at a Line station.

I know you personally, not like some of the other AMFA Organizers, but I know you.

I support your right to believe however you wish.

You have always had the best interest of the profession in mind as far as I have seen and I appreciate that.

Like I said earlier, I will try to come and visit with you next week.

 

[Raptorman49]

Did you not learn anything during the last drive?

As long as they have recall rights, their cards count and they will vote. That is how the TWU used the TWA AMT's to screw us out of a vote. how could you forget? Maybe were not involved as close as you think, or would never have made that bold face lie in public.

Come on Dan, just because you support the Teamsters, don't let them make a liar out of ya.

Not lieing ..... I didn't know that Dave.