Industrial vs. Craft

[Raptorman49]

You claim to want rid of the TWU, and yet you ride an emotional roller coaster right into the TWU strategy. Just great! We have plenty of support for AMFA in Tulsa, you are just too blinded by your own emotions to get out as see it. The Teamsters drive started within 10 days of the AMFA drive starting, the base is huge, and you made the conclusion without attending any organizers meeeting, that AMFA had no support. Speak for yourself, and not others. What did you do to make your determination, hold a wet finger up into the wind?

While collecting Teamster cards I couldn't help but notice how many people have signed Teamster cards but said they wouldn't sign an Amfa card, also couldn't help but notice how easy it was to get people to sign a Teamster cards, In my particular shop 99% of the shop signed Teamster cards on the 1st day & there are several other shops in the Cam building with the same stats, during the 2003 Amfa drive it took 10 months to get to the 50% mark in my shop & we couldn't get any higher than that, I'm not looking for a battle with anyone on this Board it's a waste of time, just commenting on what I have seen in the last two weeks, I have no problem with a Teamster & Amfa card drive at the same time, I just think that Teamsters are getting much more cards in Tulsa & are much more likely to get to the 50%+ mark. Just an Observation .... nothing to get upset about. B)

 

[aapitbull]

I prefer a craft Union over and Industrial Union myself but the Teamster drive is like a grass fire in Tulsa it is going crazy fast where as the Amfa drive isn't getting much Interest, The Bottom line is I want to see the TWU go away & Amfa can't get enough cards to make it happen, it looks like the Teamsters can get enough cards to make it happen even if the line stations don't participate much so I will help the Teamsters get enough cards so that we can try another Union even if it's another Industrial Union, If we decide we don't like the Teamsters we can always switch again.
There are to many non A&P Mechanics at AA who believe that Amfa only cares about A&P Mechanics & therefore won't sign a card, from what I'm seeing most Amfa supporters are signing Teamsters cards but the reverse isn't true so much.
I have been soliciting Teamster cards but collecting both Amfa & Teamster cards, I take the few Amfa cards I get to an Amfa organizer & the Teamster cards to the Teamster office at the Hotel.

So lets get this straight the TWU supporters who have for years kept us in the TWU now say they want IBT and will sign cards but you know it is a bad choice yet you are willing to go with it. So after 25 years fighting for a craft union you think we should give up and let the TWU supporters of the past determine our choice in the future yea right. The IBT has not even shown up at DFW and you think they can get the required cards out of Tulsa, well that shows you have no idea how many are required. if you go by people on the property right now you would need 6000 cards, way beyond what you can sign in Tulsa it is true their are a few mislead folks in L.A. but thats about it so good luck getting the required cards.

The reality is the line will not sign IBT cards and if you really want out of the TWU you better start changing some of those folks mind and getting the AMFA cards signed in the end it is up to you.i KNOW YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IT BUT THE IBT IS ONLY HELPING THEIR FRIENDS THE TWU and you are falling for it hook line and sinker we will not. AMFA will be in town on July 14th and we will begin our drive to repalce the TWU/IBT see ya there.

 

[Raptorman49]

As I said I really just want to replace the TWU & I'm not really picky about who replaces them, as far as i'm concerned whichever competing Union is the most popular at the Tulsa base is good enough for me & from what i'm seeing that by far is the Teamsters so that is why I'm soliciting Teamster cards because there just so easy to get, It's nice not having to talk people into signing a card or answer questions about Amfa's recent setbacks, I know they weren't Amfa's fault but many people want to blame Amfa & it's just to much work trying to convince them it wasn't their fault, guess you could say i'm looking for the easiest way to replace the TWU .... I'm getting lazy in my old age .... LOL

 

[TWU informer]

While collecting Teamster cards I couldn't help but notice how many people have signed Teamster cards but said they wouldn't sign an Amfa card, also couldn't help but notice how easy it was to get people to sign a Teamster cards, In my particular shop 99% of the shop signed Teamster cards on the 1st day & there are several other shops in the Cam building with the same stats, during the 2003 Amfa drive it took 10 months to get to the 50% mark in my shop & we couldn't get any higher than that, I'm not looking for a battle with anyone on this Board it's a waste of time, just commenting on what I have seen in the last two weeks, I have no problem with a Teamster & Amfa card drive at the same time, I just think that Teamsters are getting much more cards in Tulsa & are much more likely to get to the 50%+ mark. Just an Observation .... nothing to get upset about. B)

Tulsa does not rule the system, and your shop is no where close to the barometer of support for change you are making it.

I have signed AMFA cards from many welders and machinist this time, but that is because of the TWU. Without hesitation I get AMFA cards signed. You just climbed on board the Truck Drivers Union before thinking through what was happening.

Just as it was the concessions of 2003 that threw the card count over the filing mark, the TWU concessions for jobs program is what is causing the support for change today. You are just short sighted and using very unscientific markers to justify being an Industrial Union supporter. I agree that further bickering with you is a waste of time, but you really should consider using only logic to think about what is happening and throw your emotions that are always on your sleeves out the window on this one.

 

[TWU informer]

As I said I really just want to replace the TWU & I'm not really picky about who replaces them, as far as i'm concerned whichever competing Union is the most popular at the Tulsa base is good enough for me & from what i'm seeing that by far is the Teamsters so that is why I'm soliciting Teamster cards because there just so easy to get, It's nice not having to talk people into signing a card or answer questions about Amfa's recent setbacks, I know they weren't Amfa's fault but many people want to blame Amfa & it's just to much work trying to convince them it wasn't their fault, guess you could say i'm looking for the easiest way to replace the TWU .... I'm getting lazy in my old age .... LOL

Think outside the 35 mile radius of the Tulsa Base for a change and then tell us again which direction you stand the best chance to remove the TWU.

I hear you talking your shop and the Tulsa base, but you need to think outside that forbidden 35 mile radius.

 

[TWU informer]

Let's make it Teamster / Amfa VS TWU so we can replace the TWU

Think about that signature you have created there for awhile and get back with us.
And they call us the intelligent species......ROFLMAO

Have you heard any Teamster bash the TWU in puiblic?
Have you heard any TWU stooge bash the Teamsters in public?

Have you heard either or both bashing AMFA? Why do you suppose I ask those questions? What do you suppose the answer to them means?

 

[Raptorman49]

So lets get this straight the TWU supporters who have for years kept us in the TWU now say they want IBT and will sign cards but you know it is a bad choice yet you are willing to go with it. So after 25 years fighting for a craft union you think we should give up and let the TWU supporters of the past determine our choice in the future yea right. The IBT has not even shown up at DFW and you think they can get the required cards out of Tulsa, well that shows you have no idea how many are required. if you go by people on the property right now you would need 6000 cards, way beyond what you can sign in Tulsa it is true their are a few mislead folks in L.A. but thats about it so good luck getting the required cards.

The reality is the line will not sign IBT cards and if you really want out of the TWU you better start changing some of those folks mind and getting the AMFA cards signed in the end it is up to you.i KNOW YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IT BUT THE IBT IS ONLY HELPING THEIR FRIENDS THE TWU and you are falling for it hook line and sinker we will not. AMFA will be in town on July 14th and we will begin our drive to repalce the TWU/IBT see ya there.

I didn't say I thought Teamsters was a bad choice, I said I prefer a craft Union over an Industrial Union that is not the same thing as saying they are a bad choice, I have no problem with the Teamsters & in fact there are things I like about them like their Pension plan, Discount Insurance plans etc. I have no problem with giving the Teamsters a chance, I'm just supporting the most popular competing Union in Tulsa because as I said it's down right easy getting people to sign cards, In fact that is the only reason I'm even involved in another card drive, because it actually looks like they will get enough cards.

 

[TWU informer]

As I said I really just want to replace the TWU & I'm not really picky about who replaces them, as far as i'm concerned whichever competing Union is the most popular at the Tulsa base is good enough for me & from what i'm seeing that by far is the Teamsters so that is why I'm soliciting Teamster cards because there just so easy to get, It's nice not having to talk people into signing a card or answer questions about Amfa's recent setbacks, I know they weren't Amfa's fault but many people want to blame Amfa & it's just to much work trying to convince them it wasn't their fault, guess you could say i'm looking for the easiest way to replace the TWU .... I'm getting lazy in my old age .... LOL

Then enjoy the TWU until you retire. That is what you will deserve if that is your position.
The easy path has always gotten you where in your life? I like to try to learn from my previous mistakes, not repeat them until I am in a unrecoverable position.

 

[TWU informer]

I didn't say I thought Teamsters was a bad choice, I said I prefer a craft Union over an Industrial Union that is not the same thing as saying they are a bad choice, I have no problem with the Teamsters & in fact there are things I like about them like their Pension plan, Discount Insurance plans etc. I have no problem with giving the Teamsters a chance, I'm just supporting the most popular competing Union in Tulsa because as I said it's down right easy getting people to sign cards, In fact that is the only reason I'm even involved in another card drive, because it actually looks like they will get enough cards.

You have not changed a bit from the old days Mr McCoy.
I have always found you to be an intelligent man when I speak with you peronsally, and then when I hear about your actions, they always make me wonder WTF over.

 

[Raptorman49]

Let's make it Teamster / Amfa VS TWU so we can replace the TWU

Think about signature you have created there for awhile and get back with us.
And they call us the intelligent species......ROFLMAO

Have you heard any Teamster bash the TWU in puiblic?
Have you heard any TWU stooge bash the Teamsters in public?

Have you heard either or both bashing AMFA? Why do you suppose I ask those questions? What do you suppose the answer to them means?

So far I haven't heard to much bashing from Amfa supporters, Teamster supporters or TWU supporters at the base & i'm hoping it stays that way, as for looking outside the Tulsa base from what I can see the line stations don't care to much about what Mechanics in Tulsa think so I have adopted the attitude recently that I don't care what the line station Mechanics think, It's clear that they are going to go their way & the Tulsa base is going to go it's own way, that is the way it's always been & I guess that is the way it always will be, Neither seems to interested in compromising, I'm all for compromise myself which is why I sign ANY and ALL cards from competing Unions.
I wan't to be part of the solution by signing ALL cards instead of being part of the problem by refusing to sign a competing Union's card because I have Issues with that Union, the reason we can't get enough cards to get to an election is because of everyone's "ISSUES"

 

[aapitbull]

As I said I really just want to replace the TWU & I'm not really picky about who replaces them, as far as i'm concerned whichever competing Union is the most popular at the Tulsa base is good enough for me & from what i'm seeing that by far is the Teamsters so that is why I'm soliciting Teamster cards because there just so easy to get, It's nice not having to talk people into signing a card or answer questions about Amfa's recent setbacks, I know they weren't Amfa's fault but many people want to blame Amfa & it's just to much work trying to convince them it wasn't their fault, guess you could say i'm looking for the easiest way to replace the TWU .... I'm getting lazy in my old age .... LOL

Blind leading the Blind!!

 

[Tex-Mech]

Trading the TWU for the Teamsters is like trading Charmin Toilet Paper for Cottonelle Toilet Paper, and both should be used for the same purpose.

If forced between the two, and as a long-time Charmin user, I would stick to Charmin...at least I know the feel real well for when I'm going to poke a hole through it.

 

[Raptorman49]

You have not changed a bit from the old days Mr McCoy.
I have always found you to be an intelligent man when I speak with you peronsally, and then when I hear about your actions, they always make me wonder WTF over.

Thanks Dave
As I said I am all for Amfa IF they can get enough cards and as Ed will tell you I have been giving him Amfa cards when someone offers them to me, ask him & he will confirm this, From my observation the Teamsters have a lot more support in Tulsa than Amfa so I have to go with who has the best chance of getting enough cards to call for an Election, I know you have noticed how much support the Teamsters have in Tulsa ....It's hard not to notice, If you haven't come by and see me & I will be glad to take you around to talk to other Mechanics, especially in the cam building and even in some of the hangers, It is what it is.

 

[TWU informer]

So far I haven't heard to much bashing from Amfa supporters, Teamster supporters or TWU supporters at the base & i'm hoping it stays that way, as for looking outside the Tulsa base from what I can see the line stations don't care to much about what Mechanics in Tulsa think so I have adopted the attitude recently that I don't care what the line station Mechanics think, It's clear that they are going to go their way & the Tulsa base is going to go it's own way, that is the way it's always been & I guess that is the way it always will be, Neither seems to interested in compromising, I'm all for compromise myself which is why I sign ANY and ALL cards from competing Unions.
I wan't to be part of the solution by signing ALL cards instead of being part of the problem by refusing to sign a competing Union's card because I have Issues with that Union, the reason we can't get enough cards to get to an election is because of everyone's "ISSUES"

Let's review 2003 since you brought that up as a failure in your mind.

What happened? We had enough cards signed and then what happened?

In 2003 the TWU did everything in their power to prevent you and me from getting a ballot to remove them.
Do you agree?

And today nothing has changed, only they brought in the wolf is sheeps clothing this time and you jumped all over it at full speed ahead.

Do you think the TWU would not do everything in their power to prevent that ballot reaching your hands again?

But here you are attempting to justify supporting another industrial while claiming your shop did not sign AMFA cards.

WE HAD ENOUGH CARDS SIGNED IN 2003!!!!

We were screwed by the NBM, TWU, and AA Alliance. Now we are facing the TWU/IBT alliance and where are you at?

And in your mind, somehow you have twisted that into an AMFA/IBT alliance to get rid of the TWU.
Are you serious?

 

[TWU informer]

Thanks Dave
As I said I am all for Amfa IF they can get enough cards and as Ed will tell you I have been giving him Amfa cards when someone offers them to me, ask him & he will confirm this, From my observation the Teamsters have a lot more support in Tulsa than Amfa so I have to go with who has the best chance of getting enough cards to call for an Election, I know you have noticed how much support the Teamsters have in Tulsa ....It's hard not to notice, If you haven't come by and see me & I will be glad to take you around to talk to other Mechanics, especially in the cam building and even in some of the hangers, It is what it is.

The debate between industrial unions versus craft unions has not even begun yet and you have already declared a winner. Always remember, the Industrial Unionist are pathetic dirty politics experts, and we have to use that to our advantage. And we will win in the end, because good will prevail over evil everytime.

Sure I notice the support for the Teamsters. Why do you think the TWU invited them to begin with?

Mark my words, that will end up being our greatest asset as it has moved the typical TWU supporter in a direction of a desire for change. Now all we have to do is communicate with them. They are all listening now and that is a great advantage to us.

You have harmed nothing and actually in the end, what you have done will be of great help.