Industrial vs. Craft

[Anomaly]

Hey jackwagon, Do you really think this is our first time? We have all heard your lame, tired excuses too many times to count. It's clear you have no idea of what your talking about, especially when your talking about the history of the TWU at AA.

I state that you are doing so behind an alias because you are a paid troll... nothing more/nothing less.

Your statements are lost through your insults. Your childish reaction of name calling is nothing more than a school yard attempt to deflect the fact that my posts might just cause some skepticism among your followers.

You ignorantly ignore the intent behind the article and insecurely attack the person rather than the post. It is this CHILDISH mentality that rules and leads AMFA. Your posts, and direct personal insults are another fine example of what is wrong with AMFA, and what to expect from this association. Just one of the many reasons myself and other UAL mechanics dumped YOUR group.

 

[TWU informer]

Your statements are lost through your insults. Your childish reaction of name calling is nothing more than a school yard attempt to deflect the fact that my posts might just cause some skepticism among your followers.

You ignorantly ignore the intent behind the article and insecurely attack the person rather than the post. It is this CHILDISH mentality that rules and leads AMFA. Your posts, and direct personal insults are another fine example of what is wrong with AMFA, and what to expect from this association. Just one of the many reasons myself and other UAL mechanics dumped the group.

To the contrary, you are actually helping us out more than you would ever imagine.

Keep up the good work and hang around awhile.

There is nothing wrong with having a disagreement over union representation, and your positions make it more clear the differences.

You really cannot prove why industrial unionism is good for you, instead you are just here to bash AMFA and craft unionism over, and over, and over, and over. But you still have failed to provide any specifics answers to the many claims that the industrial unions have represented the majority of the mechanics and related in this industry for over 60 years, and yet we all have to seek change to escape that decimation. AMFA is not creating this movement against these industrial unions, the disgruntled members are making the card drives and elections happen. You cannot accept that members are tired of your garbage representation, so you blame the only ALL and ONLY MECHANICS and RELATED union movement there is on the planet. In fact AMFA was founded as a result of undemocratic and failed unionism by the TWU at American Airlines and to date AMFA has not removed that problem from the industry, but I suspect these drives will continue until the TWU is removed.

Even from the beginning of your presence here you first claimed that there were great returns on investment to political campaign financing, and when asked to give specifics, you ignore that request, just like every other request made of you. And you completely ignore and fail to explain why our profession is "getting worse" as you have said, yet even today the majority in the profession are represented by industrial unions while that "getting worse" is taking place. Why is that?

I believe that your statements that the profession is getting worse, while the majority are represented by the type unionism that you champion is really all anyone needs to read and see, and therefore, your presence is grerat to have around.

 

[DNTULSA]

anomaly,

I noticed that you have gone from a score of -149 yesterday, to a score of -191 today!

You are really making an impression, but not the one you would like to make.

There are a whole lot of people on this site who don't like you.

 

[Anomaly]

To the contrary, you are actually helping us out more than you would ever imagine.

Keep up the good work and hang around awhile.

There is nothing wrong with have a disagreement over union representation, and your positions make it more clear the differences.

Well then I am glad I can be of service. It is directly inconsequential whether AA mechanics go with AMFA, TWU, IAM IBT or any other union. If I can cause just one person to rethink the "why" of a conclusion, and make you uncomfortable to the point you have to defend your position, I believe I have successfully completed my reason for logging on to this site in the first place.

I just want other mechanics to learn about AMFA before head diving in to the rhetoric like I did. I am happy to expose my experiences.

An educated choice is a good choice. You just hate that I might be causing people to research and learn the truth before blindly following your agenda.

 

[Anomaly]

anomaly,

I noticed that you have gone from a score of -149 yesterday, to a score of -191 today!

You are really making an impression, but not the one you would like to make.

There are a whole lot of people on this site who don't like you.

Either that, or there are a a few of you who fear me and the message I bring to this subject. As I just posted,

If I can cause just one person to rethink the "why" of a conclusion, and make you uncomfortable to the point you have to defend your position, I believe I have successfully completed my reason for logging on to this site in the first place.

I just want other mechanics to learn about AMFA before head diving in to the rhetoric like I did. I am happy to expose my experiences.

An educated choice is a good choice. You just hate that I might be causing people to research and learn the truth before blindly following your agenda.

 

[TWU informer]

Well then I am glad I can be of service. It is directly inconsequential whether AA mechanics go with AMFA, TWU, IAM IBT or any other union. If I can cause just one person to rethink the "why" of a conclusion, and make you uncomfortable to the point you have to defend your position, I believe I have successfully completed my reason for logging on to this site in the first place.

I just want other mechanics to learn about AMFA before head diving in to the rhetoric like I did. I am happy to expose my experiences.

An educated choice is a good choice. You just hate that I might be causing people to research and learn the truth before blindly following your agenda.

I hate nothing about what you are doing. And just so you get those crazy industrial union ideas out of your head, you do not have the power to cause or make anybody do anything. They either choose to or not, and you are powerless. I do know where you get those ideas though, it is the master principle that comes direct from industrial union thinking for dummies page 101.

Now instead of answering the specific questions, you even clip them before responding.

Like I said, you are a great benefit to the AMFA drive at American Airlines and I appreciate your continued assistance.

You just cannot come up with an answer to the fact that the majority of the Mechanic and Related in this industry is represented by the Industrial Unions and we continue to go backwards in issues as important as outsourcing of work, and decimation at the hands of Capitalist through Bankruptcy Courts, and it is the Industrial Unions that have claimed the ability to keep those type of matters in check via the Political Arena.

Not only is the Industrial Union philosophy failing the AMT's of this industry at the bargaining table, they are also failing in the Poltical Arena, and the public opinion regarding what we do and our importance to safe and reliable air travel. Complete failure across the board. On the other hand, if you take the time to read the transcript from the AMFA/NWA Presidential Emergency Board you might be able to grasp the global idea of craft unionism, instead of whimpering that you personally had issues with your Local or someone that could not handle full democracy in a Union. That is what you keep telling us happened at UAL, that a bunch of AMT's could not transition to a fully democratic structure, and they imploded on themselves. Or employees like yourself participated in doing everything in your power to distrupt the idea so you could return to your failed and miserable industrial union ideas. Well let me tell you something, that is far from a problem with the AMFA Constitution and/or Craft Unionism, that is problem with a bunch of dysfunctional AMT's that cannot handle having a fully democratic union. Maybe you guys really do need someone to save you from yourselves, but I dont believe that to be the case here at AA.

 

[Anomaly]

Even from the beginning of your presence here you first claimed that there were great returns on investment to political campaign financing, and when asked to give specifics, you ignore that request, just like every other request made of you. And you completely ignore and fail to explain why our profession is "getting worse" as you have said, yet even today the majority in the profession are represented by industrial unions while that "getting worse" is taking place. Why is that?

Hey.....? You added to your post.

Lucky for me I caught before you were able to pretend that I ignored it or called me a liar.... lol

To answer your points In reverse order;

The plight if AA tells me the security of my career choice is getting worse through the general public's acceptance of outsourcing aircraft maintenance. For good or bad depending on your individual views, your airline was still the last hod outs for doing maintenance in house. Even if it is not your overall opinion, I for one will be sorry if you loose one single job to outsourcing.

I am not the one who created campaign financing and certainly not the one who has been pushing its continuance. There must be some benefit otherwise nobody would contribute. This should not be any unknown relevance or need more explanation, but if you insist, I will once again help you do your research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_finance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_finance_in_the_United_States

http://www.thisnation.com/question/036.html This one should explain this best

http://bcep.haas.berkeley.edu/papers/Figueiredo_Edwards.pdf This one provides specific examples defending my claims.

http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/139791/money_can_buy_you_favoritism Another example

http://web.mit.edu/jdefig/www/papers/invest_or_consumpt.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/weekinreview/24kirkpatrick.html

http://www.chicagobooth.edu/research/workshops/AppliedEcon/archive/WebArchive20032004/stratman.pdf

 

[TWU informer]

Hey.....? You added to your post.

Lucky for me I caught before you were able to pretend that I ignored it or called me a liar.... lol

To answer your points In reverse order;

The plight if AA tells me the security of my career choice is getting worse through the general public's acceptance of outsourcing aircraft maintenance. For good or bad depending on your individual views, your airline was still the last hod outs for doing maintenance in house. Even if it is not your overall opinion, I for one will be sorry if you loose one single job to outsourcing.

I am not the one who created campaign financing and certainly not the one who has been pushing its continuance. There must be some benefit otherwise nobody would contribute. This should not be any unknown relevance or need more explanation, but if you insist, I will once again help you do your research.

http://en.wikipedia....ampaign_finance

http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States

http://www.thisnatio...estion/036.html This one should explain this best

http://bcep.haas.ber...edo_Edwards.pdf This one provides specific examples defending my claims.

http://thestir.cafem..._you_favoritism Another example

http://web.mit.edu/j...or_consumpt.pdf

http://www.nytimes.c...irkpatrick.html

http://www.chicagobo...04/stratman.pdf

Ok so your career choice is getting worse.

And a simple search turned up this on organized labor spending in Politics.

http://www.akdart.com/labor6.html

So after you post all those stories about access being bought with money in politics, then please explain the paradox?

Millions in Labor Dollars for Politics, yet your career going down the tubes.

Which is is then?

You can't have it both ways??

Again it appears to be a simple thing, Industrial Union Labor Money in millions of dollars is not paying off as your pathetic articles claim they should. Maybe the institution of labor gets a reward, but show me where the rank-and-file member is getting a reward for millions spent? Not coming in outsource retrictions, not coming in bankruptcy law reform, not coming in stopping the middle class from being decimated. So where is the reward to the average union member?

 

[Anomaly]

I hate nothing about what you are doing. And just so you get those crazy industrial union ideas out of your head, you do not have the power to cause or make anybody do anything. They either choose to or not, and you are powerless. I do know where you get those ideas though, it is the master principle that comes direct from industrial union thinking for dummies page 101.

Now instead of answering the specific questions, you even clip them before responding.

Like I said, you are a great benefit to the AMFA drive at American Airlines and I appreciate your continued assistance.

You just cannot come up with an answer to the fact that the majority of the Mechanic and Related in this industry is represented by the Industrial Unions and we continue to go backwards in issues as important as outsourcing of work, and decimation at the hands of Capitalist through Bankruptcy Courts, and it is the Industrial Unions that have claimed the ability to keep those type of matters in check via the Political Arena.

Not only is the Industrial Union philosophy failing the AMT's of this industry at the bargaining table, they are also failing in the Poltical Arena, and the public opinion regarding what we do and our importance to safe and reliable air travel. Complete failure across the board. On the other hand, if you take the time to read the transcript from the AMFA/NWA Presidential Emergency Board you might be able to grasp the global idea of craft unionism, instead of whimpering that you personally had issues with your Local or someone that could not handle full democracy in a Union. That is what you keep telling us happened at UAL, that a bunch of AMT's could not transition to a fully democratic structure, and they imploded on themselves. Or employees like yourself participated in doing everything in your power to distrupt the idea so you could return to your failed and miserable industrial union ideas. Well let me tell you something, that is far from a problem with the AMFA Constitution and/or Craft Unionism, that is problem with a bunch of dysfunctional AMT's that cannot handle having a fully democratic union. Maybe you guys really do need someone to save you from yourselves, but I dont believe that to be the case here at AA.

Again an excellent illustration to my point that you would much rather blame other unions for the falling numbers of US Airline mechanics rather than focus on the real problem.

The NWA PEB does nothing more than state the importance that should be place on airline employed mechanics. These are the same arguments used by other unions including the TWU. Why doe this add more value coming from Delle, or any other real estate guru?

 

[Anomaly]

Ok so your career choice is getting worse.

And a simple search turned up this on organized labor spending in Politcs.

http://www.akdart.com/labor6.html

So after you post all those stories about access being bought with money in politics, then please explain the paradox?

Millions in Labor Dollars for Politics, yet your career going down the tubes.

Which is is then?

You can't have it both ways??

Again it appears to be a simple thing, Industrial Union Labor Money in millions of dollars is not paying off as your pathetic articles claim they should.

WOW.... you read my post and all my links and responded in only 10 minutes.

I am impressed, or maybe just wondering if your true intentions are to simply deflect the truth. Hmmmm.

 

[Anomaly]

Ok so your career choice is getting worse.

And a simple search turned up this on organized labor spending in Politcs.

http://www.akdart.com/labor6.html

So after you post all those stories about access being bought with money in politics, then please explain the paradox?

Millions in Labor Dollars for Politics, yet your career going down the tubes.

Which is is then?

You can't have it both ways??

Again it appears to be a simple thing, Industrial Union Labor Money in millions of dollars is not paying off as your pathetic articles claim they should.

LOL..... psssst; when you cite and post a link, at least make sure it does not hurt your point or credibility.

Your link states in the opening; "When you write out a check for union dues, you might as well make the check payable to the Democratic National Committee, because that's where the money is eventually going."

Yet when you view the source for the quote, you find out the article "exaggerated the truth". In other words, according to the links on their own site, the authors of this site lied.

http://www.opensecre...strID=C00027342

BTW, the site makes no difference towards craft or industrial unions. It attacks both equally.

Regardless, what does this do to counter my point or lesson the answer i gave you? You asked me about campaign finance, and I answered. Next question?

 

[TWU informer]

LOL..... psssst; when you cite and post a link, at least make sure it does not hurt your point pr credibility.

Your links states in the opening statement "When you write out a check for union dues, you might as well make the check payable to the Democratic National Committee, because that's where the money is eventually going."

Yet when you view the source the quote, you find out the article "exaggerated the truth". In other words, according to the links on their own site, they lied.

http://www.opensecre...strID=C00027342

Regardless, what does this do to counter my point or lesson the answer i gave you? You asked me about campaign finance, and I answered. Next question?

We are not speaking about the Rich getting their's in return for campaign finance. It is obvious they get their's....brother.

Please show me where the average union member has received a return on the investment of millions of dollars from his/her paycheck sent to finance any campaign?

 

[Anomaly]

This thread is worth re visiting.

http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/13975-amfa-national-election-results

 

[TWU informer]

This thread is worth re visiting.

http://www.airlinefo...lection-results

And you accuse others of "deflecting"? Wow, you know alot about that don't you?

 

[Anomaly]

And you accuse others of "deflecting"? Wow, you know alot about that don't you?

Pot/Kettle