Industrial vs. Craft

[Buck]

Anomaly: And I read it directly as it was explained.

Not one of your brighter comments.

 

[aapitbull]

A nice gesture, but would it have been legal? Check the Pilots agreement to see if they can honor a strike. Sorry to say, this has to be agreed to first.

Did we read the same post? I did not recall him saying anything about a strike. I think he said both the Teamsters and AMFA realized there was nothing to stop the company in the agreement? You have a copy, I do not. Does it say they can farm out work? If so, and if the membership does not stand against it, what about that strike? Delle, is this you? Strike at any cost....



And I read it directly as it was explained. The Teamsters realizing they could not stop the outsourcing, created hardships for the company. They agreed to stop if the company provided a VSI package (vsi= voluntary separation ???? You should post that too. I am curious to see what they got). They also agreed not to file any more grievances ON THAT PARTICULAR SUBLECT.

agrees not to file any grievances with respect to the subcontracting that
is the subject of this Agreement.

Sorry, but this sounds clear to me.



Yes, the IBT fought the outsourcing, gathered a few thousand signatures, and the company entered in to an agreement.

The articles were a news story pointing out that the Teamsters were in fact involved in a labor dispute.

Your attempts to cover up your intentional lie are good, but let me help out.

You wrote

Nevermind the fact that the champions of stopping outsourcing to MROs cut a deal that ensured no grievances and no public statements about the outsourcing.

I would call a few thousand signatures kinda public. Ya think?



Maybe I have more to say?

It is no doubt you are trying to remove the IBT. I am sure you will receive some benefit in return. For my part, I am happy to discolor the rosy colored goggles you wear when describing the AMFA as the answer to all. I never want to go back to them.

We both want the same thing. I want to be sure we never go back to a Union that hurt is in both the short and long terms. You want to get out of a Union that has made advancements to our future? Maybe we don;t want the same thing. But I do not understand why?

What has the Teamsters taken away from you? I am not asking how they did not live up to your expectations, I am asking, what did they TAKE from you?

The IBT showed up after the the BK and did not keep their promises they have lost jobs at both UAL and Horizon and yes things have got better from the dark days of the Mid 2000's and if we are to believe you they are here now to try the same thing at AA but the difference is we prefer a craft union to another industrial union and we will fight to finish the job O.V. start in 1962. I had a IBT organizer tell me today that if they do not get the cards in the next 60 days they are leaving I have no idea if this is true but I promise you I will do everything in my power to stop them.

 

[Anomaly]

I am a Horizon mechanic 4 years. I signed a card to get amfa back. We had a vote but the ibt won. We all knew the heavy checks would be sent to Idaho and there would be a lot of guys loosing their jobs. We all knew about this even when amfa was our union and some of the guys thought the teamster could stop it even though amfa said there was nothing anybody could do about it. Heavy checks were going to be sent to Idaho, and we sold all the rj jets. We all knew a lay off was coming. The teamsters did not stop the lay offs but they did manage to really piss off the company. They made us look bad to alaska air and some people think it was the teamsters that made our ceo get fired. It was funny and cool whet they did. We did not have any contract for money during lay offs, and the teamsters did get us that. They also forced the company to allow everyone who wanted to take the money that they could go. The company tried to block some people from leaving, but the teamsters lawyers won. Because of that, they had to sign an agreement that they would never do this again. Our guys got there money so nobody cared. And the agreement was just for the c checks, so i think it is ok to piss off the company again if we have too.
I saw the picture with the mechanic and the pilots. It was at the alaska air stock meeting and the teamsters wanted a whole bunch of mechanics to show up because we were loosing the checks. None of us thought it would do any good so only one mechanic showed up. They did get about 50 pilots to help us though and that is the picture. The mechanic is our past chief stewart and all the pilots. It was cool.
Some of us signed amfa cards because we were tired of all the crap. we found out that if the amfa looses then they can not come back for 2 years. We were all just tired of everything, The teamsters are doing ok. But the amfa costs a little bit less.

Jet Wash would you mind explaining to me how you claim to have known about the work being sent out? I am still curious about this. According to what little I know about the subject, the announcement to send the work out was made after the Teamsters had won representation. I am not doubting that you knew, I am just curios HOW you knew?

Also, if you are a 4 year employee, how did you avoid lay off in 2009? I honestly mean no offense, but the numbers do not seem to add up.

I also do not understand the statement The company tried to block some people from leaving but the teamsters lawyers won.

This was a lay off correct? Or was it purely an early out?

If it was only an early out I guess that would explain why a 4 year person would still be around. However, I was under the impression that junior mechanics were furloughed also?

Thanks for you explanation of events.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Yes, the IBT fought the outsourcing, gathered a few thousand signatures, and the company entered in to an agreement.

The articles were a news story pointing out that the Teamsters were in fact involved in a labor dispute.

Your attempts to cover up your intentional lie are good, but let me help out.

You wrote

Nevermind the fact that the champions of stopping outsourcing to MROs cut a deal that ensured no grievances and no public statements about the outsourcing.

I would call a few thousand signatures kinda public. Ya think?

Are you truly that desperate to try and float this same BS again?

My statement:

Nevermind the fact that the champions of stopping outsourcing to MROs cut a deal that ensured no grievances and no public statements about the outsourcing.

So lets see, I'm obviously talking about a deal ...... and that deal called for no grievances, and no public statements about outsourcing.

Now since I'm obviously talking about the ibt Horizon agreement, it stands to reason that and conditions/restrictions wouldn't be binding on the parties til after its ratification.

So your 2 so called examples are both dated when? June of 2010?

And the agreement from which I posted proof to refute your pathetic brand of BS was signed when?

Please go ahead and deny you know when it was signed.

I'm starting to really enjoy this.

 

[Anomaly]

Are you truly that desperate to try and float this same BS again?

My statement:



So lets see, I'm obviously talking about a deal ...... and that deal called for no grievances, and no public statements about outsourcing.

Now since I'm obviously talking about the ibt Horizon agreement, it stands to reason that and conditions/restrictions wouldn't be binding on the parties til after its ratification.

So your 2 so called examples are both dated when? June of 2010?

And the agreement from which I posted proof to refute your pathetic brand of BS was signed when?

Please go ahead and deny you know when it was signed.

I'm starting to really enjoy this.

What does that date have to do with anything?

 

[Overspeed]

You are a common liar. The Oak base and the Indy base were given away by the iam. It is written in black and white in the iam/ual 2003-2009 restructuring agreement. You are one of the twu believers lieing to the membership during the last drive. If anyone here would like to see for themselves how the twu international and its reps lie to the members,you can google ual/iam 2003-2009 restructuring agreement and the proof will be on page 8 third paragraph.

I'm a liar? Never said anything about IND. AMFA represents the AS A&P's does it not? http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Alaska-Air-shuts-Oakland-base-340-maintenance-2726556.php "Alaska representatives broke the news to Oakland mechanics in an early afternoon meeting in the base's break room, said Earl Clark, one of the technicians and an officer with the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. The company, he said, gave no warning that the base would be shut down."

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

What does that date have to do with anything?

LMAO! What does that date have to do with anything??

Well lets review:

I said this:

Nevermind the fact that the champions of stopping outsourcing to MROs cut a deal that ensured no grievances and no public statements about the outsourcing.

Which you tried to twist by posting this:

So what do these to articles say about your little spin?

http://www.prnewswir...y-96215604.html

http://www.teamster....d-jobs-wont-fly

Then you followed with this:

They tell me that your are something less than HONEST. Your a damn LIAR.

So to sum it all up now...

I made a post concerning an agreement the ibt made with Horizon management, where among other things, they agreed to never speak against the outsourcing in public.

You cant refute it so you have and continue in a pathetic attempt to spin that position and insinuate I'm thereby a liar by citing news articles that took place BEFORE that contract was signed.

 

[Buck]

Capt. David Bourne, what is his profession?

 

[enough already]

And you wonder why I am doing this............ LMAO

Yes, I do.............

 

[DNTULSA]

I'm a liar? Never said anything about IND. AMFA represents the AS A&P's does it not? http://www.sfgate.co...nce-2726556.php "Alaska representatives broke the news to Oakland mechanics in an early afternoon meeting in the base's break room, said Earl Clark, one of the technicians and an officer with the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. The company, he said, gave no warning that the base would be shut down."

look up Overspeed in the dictionary. first definition of overspeed is Liar.

It also says see amaladingdong.

Then see , low speed steel.

 

[whoop whoop]

A nice gesture, but would it have been legal? Check the Pilots agreement to see if they can honor a strike. Sorry to say, this has to be agreed to first.

Did we read the same post? I did not recall him saying anything about a strike. I think he said both the Teamsters and AMFA realized there was nothing to stop the company in the agreement? You have a copy, I do not. Does it say they can farm out work? If so, and if the membership does not stand against it, what about that strike? Delle, is this you? Strike at any cost....



And I read it directly as it was explained. The Teamsters realizing they could not stop the outsourcing, created hardships for the company. They agreed to stop if the company provided a VSI package (vsi= voluntary separation ???? You should post that too. I am curious to see what they got). They also agreed not to file any more grievances ON THAT PARTICULAR SUBLECT.

agrees not to file any grievances with respect to the subcontracting that
is the subject of this Agreement.

Sorry, but this sounds clear to me.



Yes, the IBT fought the outsourcing, gathered a few thousand signatures, and the company entered in to an agreement.

The articles were a news story pointing out that the Teamsters were in fact involved in a labor dispute.

Your attempts to cover up your intentional lie are good, but let me help out.

You wrote

Nevermind the fact that the champions of stopping outsourcing to MROs cut a deal that ensured no grievances and no public statements about the outsourcing.

I would call a few thousand signatures kinda public. Ya think?



Maybe I have more to say?

It is no doubt you are trying to remove the IBT. I am sure you will receive some benefit in return. For my part, I am happy to discolor the rosy colored goggles you wear when describing AMFA as the answer to all. I never want to go back to them.

We both want the same thing. I want to be sure we never go back to a Union that hurt is in both the short and long terms. You want to get out of a Union that has made advancements to our future? Maybe we don;t want the same thing. But I do not understand why?

What has the Teamsters taken away from you? I am not asking how they did not live up to your expectations, I am asking, what did they TAKE from you?

Hey Anomaly,

You keep on saying the ibt fought outsourcing. Could you please explain how they fought outsourcing?

I have been represented by them for a while and I have yet to see one fight to stop outsourcing, in a matter of fact, ALL I have seen from the ibt is MORE outsourcing.

 

[aapitbull]

I'm a liar? Never said anything about IND. AMFA represents the AS A&P's does it not? http://www.sfgate.co...nce-2726556.php "Alaska representatives broke the news to Oakland mechanics in an early afternoon meeting in the base's break room, said Earl Clark, one of the technicians and an officer with the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. The company, he said, gave no warning that the base would be shut down."

Yes and the same thing happened to the IBT at Horizon but all you want to talk about is AMFA Lets face facts 2003 to 2008 were the dark days of aviation but the course charted out by the TWU has proved to be a disaster! Your on lawyer says that by just about any metric you use we are last in the industry. and now they want more and the worst part is the TWU said give it to them.

 

[TWU informer]

Hey Anomaly,

You keep on saying the ibt fought outsourcing. Could you please explain how they fought outsourcing?

I have been represented by them for a while and I have yet to see one fight to stop outsourcing, in a matter of fact, ALL I have seen from the ibt is MORE outsourcing.

Didn't you read earlier? The ibt had petitions, banners with slogans, along with political clout and a war chest for a strike fund.
No positive results from all this huff, puff, and blow but it damn sure sounds good when you are in pursuit of more dues payers.

Nothing like the smell of fresh smeared horseshit from another industrial union.

 

[odie01]

Informer,
Did you post the Jim Little letter to the Continental Fleet service workers in 2009 supporting the Teamsters, and the IAM sellout of the SFO and IND maintenance bases before AMFA was on property. I posted these at AFW and some of the sheep here are starting to ask questions.

 

[aapitbull]

Look on the Teamster in house tatic's thread it is awfullly quite!!!