Industrial vs. Craft

[Anomaly]

Everyone, anamoly isn't here to influence anyone.

Again anamoly, if you're so proud of the teamsters come out into the light and state your name. You talk loud but you talk only what you are told to speak.

Hi Ken. How are you buddy?

I told you more than once. Demand the names from EVERYONE else, and I will share my name also. Although in my case, I can guess that most of you have never heard of me. I have never collected money for a Bust.

Hey no disrespect to the guy and all kidding aside, but why Charles Taylor?????

I just don't get it.

 

[TWU informer]

Breaking NEWS: Third Seat Zero. Caught in another LIE.

Airline Mechanics, Community Activists Take Protest to Portland Rose Festival
PORTLAND, Ore., June 12 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Hundreds of Teamsters, with support from Portland Jobs With Justice, protested today against Horizon Air's plans to fire nearly 100 experienced aircraft maintenance workers at the Rose Festival's annual Grand Floral Parade. The company plans to outsource heavy maintenance work in Portland to an out-of-state subcontractor.
(Logo: http://photos.prnews...0100127/IBTLOGO)
Horizon Air, owned by Alaska Air Group [NYSE: ALK], is a sponsor of the 2010 Portland Rose Festival.
The Teamsters and their allies distributed balloons and unveiled a 20-foot banner that read "Horizon Air: Destroying Portland Jobs Won't Fly."
"Horizon Air claims that it cares about the Portland community and its employees here, and it wants us to believe it shares a unique bond with Portland's Rose Festival," said Capt. David Bourne, Director of the Teamsters Airline Division. "But sending 100 highly skilled jobs to another state is not the way to treat this community."
"Unemployment is now up to 11 percent around here," said Rich Chase, a Horizon Air mechanic from Portland. "Portland needs good jobs now more than ever. I don't understand how Horizon can sponsor the Rose Festival and build a big float while they're stabbing us in the back."
The protesters also collected thousands of signatures from parade watchers on a petition demanding that Horizon and Alaska Air rethink their decision to terminate mechanics' jobs.
Founded in 1903, the Teamsters Union represents more than 1.4 million hardworking men and women in the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico.

The big question is did the balloons, the banners with slogans, and the thousands of signatures from parade watchers accomplish a damn thing for those workers losing their jobs? Hell NO!
Oh wait, this is what JetWash had to say about the outcome:

"The teamsters did not stop the lay offs but they did manage to really piss off the company. They made us look bad to alaska air "

Sounds like the Teamsters power failed to save those workers their jobs and only made the matter worse. Damn!
TWU has been using petitions alot of late, and slogans since 1983, and not a damn thing changes.

Is this that Teamsters power you speak of? We could get better than that from a Circus.

 

[Flying low]

It was a guess. I was not able to find any data at all that there had ever been a lay off at SWA. My point is, SWAMT, seems to discuss issues he is unfamiliar with at his present company.

So, maybe all your other posts can just be "guesses" then?

 

[767 mechanic]

And losing the jobs of 90% or 23,000 of close to 30,000 members is great? Okay. You can add.

How many jobs has the IBT lost to outsourcing at UPS?

AMFA lost the remaining UAL airframe overhaul jobs after they took over from the IAM. Yeah...that's another great showing.

AMFA lost the OAK overhaul base jobs or about half of the total membership without the threat of BK. Also negotiated a KILLER no strike interest based arbitration clause that neither the TWU or IBT has negotiated in to their contracts.

The MCTs at AA are the highest paid Tech Specs in the industry and still will be after abrogation. Nice job TWU!

Yep, that craft union AMFA rocks bro!

You are a common liar. The Oak base and the Indy base were given away by the iam. It is written in black and white in the iam/ual 2003-2009 restructuring agreement. You are one of the twu believers lieing to the membership during the last drive. If anyone here would like to see for themselves how the twu international and its reps lie to the members,you can google ual/iam 2003-2009 restructuring agreement and the proof will be on page 8 third paragraph.

 

[TWU informer]

You are a common liar. The Oak base and the Indy base were given away by the iam. It is written in black and white in the iam/ual 2003-2009 restructuring agreement. You are one of the twu believers lieing to the membership during the last drive. If anyone here would like to see for themselves how the twu international and its reps lie to the members,you can google ual/iam 2003-2009 restructuring agreement and the proof will be on page 8 third paragraph.

Thanks I needed that one.

For more information see page 8
http://amfa-aa.home....eement -IAM.pdf

Front Page
Restructuring Agreement Amendment
IAM District 141M
05/01/03
UAL/IAMAW
District 141M
Restructuring Agreement Amendment
2003 - 2009
Mechanics, Fleet Technical Instructors, and
Maintenance Instructors
Agreed to this 11

th day of July 2003.
/s/ Scotty Ford /s/ Alan R. Koehler
Scotty Ford Alan R. Koehler
President & General Chairman Director - Labor Relations
District 141M
Witnesses:
/s/


Page 8
Revise Article II-F to allow the Company to dispose of its Oakland and
Indianapolis maintenance facilities while preserving the protection of the San
Francisco Maintenance Center. Add language permitting a joint venture with a
third party to provide capital improvements.

 

[DNTULSA]

Amalamadingdong,

You do go on, don't you? You have around 232 posts (or so) and have around 150 dings. You probably think you are convincing us on the superiority of the teamsters.

ZZttt!! You are wrong!

Again!!!!

 

[TWU informer]

You are a common liar. The Oak base and the Indy base were given away by the iam. It is written in black and white in the iam/ual 2003-2009 restructuring agreement. You are one of the twu believers lieing to the membership during the last drive. If anyone here would like to see for themselves how the twu international and its reps lie to the members,you can google ual/iam 2003-2009 restructuring agreement and the proof will be on page 8 third paragraph.

Thanks I needed that one.

For more information see page 8
http://amfa-aa.home....eement -IAM.pdf

Front Page
Restructuring Agreement Amendment
IAM District 141M
05/01/03
UAL/IAMAW
District 141M
Restructuring Agreement Amendment
2003 - 2009
Mechanics, Fleet Technical Instructors, and
Maintenance Instructors
Agreed to this 11

th day of July 2003.
/s/ Scotty Ford /s/ Alan R. Koehler
Scotty Ford Alan R. Koehler
President & General Chairman Director - Labor Relations
District 141M
Witnesses:
/s/


Page 8
Revise Article II-F to allow the Company to dispose of its Oakland and
Indianapolis maintenance facilities while preserving the protection of the San
Francisco Maintenance Center. Add language permitting a joint venture with a
third party to provide capital improvements.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Leave it to the other United Teamster to pick this guy apa rt.

Squandered the opportunity? This guy (or girl? sorry?) clearly stated that only one Mechanic showed up to the "Mechanics Protest" and he was accompanied by 50 Pilots. What the hell are you talking about? Sounds like the Pilots and the one Mechanic stood together in solid Teamster support.

Also, maybe you missed it, but apparently nether AMFA nor the Teamsters could find any language in the contract to abort the outsourcing. Without language in the contract, and only one Mechanic showing up at the Mechanic Protest.... what do you want?

What do I want? A REAL explanation of why the "mighty" teamsters didn't use their vaunted "power & resources" to make a stand at Horizon. If the ibt was more than just lip service to the outsourcing problem, they had a chance to prove themselves in a BIG way at Horizon. I told you I'm not interest in pilot photo op stories. You want to prove a point? Why didn't the ibt Horizon pilots voice their concerns OFFICIALLY and IN WRITING to Horizon management? The ibt never hesitates to write strongly worded letters to management to try and shine on potential members during card drives.

Not even so much as a letter from the pilots telling Horizon that if the mechanics struck, the pilots would honor the picket line. Even that simple gesture couldve been helpful.

Maybe the Horizon pilots were just too disgruntled with the ibt, as they, at the time, had been without a contract for over 4+ years.

Third Seat Zero, are you sure YOU are not paid to be here? Your twists on everyone who opposes your AMFA inventions are stuff of legions. Let me dissect just one example.

Jet wash wrote;

The company tried to block some people from leaving, but the teamsters lawyers won. Because of that, they had to sign an agreement that they would never do this again.

The Third Seat Twist;

Nevermind the fact that the champions of stopping outsourcing to MROs cut a deal that ensured no grievances and no public statements about the outsourcing.

So what do these to articles say about your little spin?

http://www.prnewswir...y-96215604.html

http://www.teamster....d-jobs-wont-fly

They tell me that your are something less than HONEST. Your a damn LIAR.

No, what your little rant above proves is that you're just another typical teamster scam artist.

This is taken DIRECTLY from the Horizon ibt HEAVY CHECK SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT

4. In exchange for the consideration listed in Paragraph 3, flie IBT and Local
986, in their own behalf and on behalf of the Company's employees the IBT currently
represents, hereby agrees not to file any grievances with respect to the subcontracting that
is the subject of this Agreement and announced on August 2, 2010, nor will they file any
grievances relating to any layoffs directly attributable to said subcontracting.
Furthermore, the IBT will not sponsor any new grievances that challenge the
subcontracting announced on August 2, 2010 or any associated layoffs (nor is it aware of
any outside of the subject grievance). Furthermore, IBT and Local 986 will not sponsor,
participate in, or approve any publicity campaign directed solely at Horizon Airlines
regarding the subject of outsourcing of the aircraft heavy check maintenance work that is
the subject of this Agreement.

5. In exchange for the consideration listed in Paragraph 4, the Company
shall:
a) Provide each qualified maintenance employee (as defined in
Attachment A) the option to participate in the VSI package according
to the terms reflected in Attachment A. A partial year of service shall
be prorated.
B) The Company shall offer the VSI package to the employees covered
by this Paragraph 4(B) in accordance with the promulgated timelhie in
Attachment A.

The ibt didn't fight, they sold out for severance and then agreed to a gag order on outsourcing.

As for your 2 "examples" ... check your dates, the agreement was obviously signed AFTER those articles , a fact I'm quite sure you were aware of!

Either that, or I was correct the first time. You have a personal agenda. Why else would you spend so much time here? Pot/Kettle, yeah, I know, but it hurts, dont it?

BTW; Who first told you to check out the American Airlines Boards?

Come on brother Teamster, level with us. What's your end game?

My end game? the removal of the ibt from UAL for starters.

As for my particulars... I've been on USAviation since December of 2004, and I have about 850+ posts. You've been on for how many WEEKS? And in that time you have already posted more than 25% of my total .... I think its more than obvious who has the agenda.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Breaking NEWS: Third Seat Zero. Caught in another LIE.

Again, do I really need to point out yet another of your pathetic attempts at misdirection?

I have the Horizon Agreement, therefore you can be assured I also am well aware of when it was signed.

You can continue to post your articles that predate the agreement and I'll keep posting the relevent sections of the Horizon agreement which show that the ibt are slick handed, gutless sell outs, and expose you for the sniveling teamster sycophant you are.

 

[Buck]

Quiet now PLEASE, the grown ups are talking.

Anomaly: it would appear that while the grownups have been talking, you should have been listening.

You are looking pretty stupid lately.

 

[Anomaly]

Amalamadingdong,

You do go on, don't you? You have around 232 posts (or so) and have around 150 dings. You probably think you are convincing us on the superiority of the teamsters.

ZZttt!! You are wrong!

Again!!!!

No, I figure this is a pro-AMFA site and those that come here expect to continue the fantasy. I am bringing reality to this thread. I would expect most of you to continue in this cartoon world where AMFA works until you actually become AMFA members. If not for me, you would be complaining that somebody should have warned you.

Consider me your emergency broadcast network.

How many posts does this make?

 

[aapitbull]

No, I figure this is a pro-AMFA site and those that come here expect to continue the fantasy. I am bringing reality to this thread. I would expect most of you to continue in this cartoon world where AMFA works until you actually become AMFA members. If not for me, you would be complaining that somebody should have warned you.

Consider me your emergency broadcast network.

How many posts does this make?

I say less than ten if you count topic's you are a bit of a broken record and this ain't UAL

 

[TWU informer]

No, I figure this is a pro-AMFA site and those that come here expect to continue the fantasy. I am bringing reality to this thread. I would expect most of you to continue in this cartoon world where AMFA works until you actually become AMFA members. If not for me, you would be complaining that somebody should have warned you.

Consider me your emergency broadcast network.

How many posts does this make?

Unless you believe that Reality equals Lies and BS, then you have brought nothing more than your opinion.
You are entitled to your opinion, and everyone else is entitled to theirs.

I would rather try AMFA and end up with you telling us I told you so versus trying another industrial union full of lies and false promises and us telling you we told you so.

That is our choice and you will not take that away.

Everytime a full blown lie is called out you simply ignore and resort to a personal attack to deflect attention away from the lie.

 

[Anomaly]

Not even so much as a letter from the pilots telling Horizon that if the mechanics struck, the pilots would honor the picket line. Even that simple gesture couldve been helpful.

A nice gesture, but would it have been legal? Check the Pilots agreement to see if they can honor a strike. Sorry to say, this has to be agreed to first.

Did we read the same post? I did not recall him saying anything about a strike. I think he said both the Teamsters and AMFA realized there was nothing to stop the company in the agreement? You have a copy, I do not. Does it say they can farm out work? If so, and if the membership does not stand against it, what about that strike? Delle, is this you? Strike at any cost....

4. In exchange for the consideration listed in Paragraph 3, flie IBT and Local
986, in their own behalf and on behalf of the Company's employees the IBT currently
represents, hereby agrees not to file any grievances with respect to the subcontracting that
is the subject of this Agreement and announced on August 2, 2010, nor will they file any
grievances relating to any layoffs directly attributable to said subcontracting.
Furthermore, the IBT will not sponsor any new grievances that challenge the
subcontracting announced on August 2, 2010 or any associated layoffs (nor is it aware of
any outside of the subject grievance). Furthermore, IBT and Local 986 will not sponsor,
participate in, or approve any publicity campaign directed solely at Horizon Airlines
regarding the subject of outsourcing of the aircraft heavy check maintenance work that is
the subject of this Agreement.

5. In exchange for the consideration listed in Paragraph 4, the Company
shall:
a) Provide each qualified maintenance employee (as defined in
Attachment A) the option to participate in the VSI package according
to the terms reflected in Attachment A. A partial year of service shall
be prorated.
B) The Company shall offer the VSI package to the employees covered
by this Paragraph 4( B) in accordance with the promulgated timelhie in
Attachment A.

No, what your little rant above proves is that you're just another typical teamster scam artist.

This is taken DIRECTLY from the Horizon ibt HEAVY CHECK SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT

And I read it directly as it was explained. The Teamsters realizing they could not stop the outsourcing, created hardships for the company. They agreed to stop if the company provided a VSI package (vsi= voluntary separation ???? You should post that too. I am curious to see what they got). They also agreed not to file any more grievances ON THAT PARTICULAR SUBLECT.

agrees not to file any grievances with respect to the subcontracting that
is the subject of this Agreement.

Sorry, but this sounds clear to me.

The ibt didn't fight, they sold out for severance and then agreed to a gag order on outsourcing.

As for your 2 "examples" ... check your dates, the agreement was obviously signed AFTER those articles , a fact I'm quite sure you were aware of!


The ibt didn't fight, they sold out for severance and then agreed to a gag order on outsourcing.

As for your 2 "examples" ... check your dates, the agreement was obviously signed AFTER those articles , a fact I'm quite sure you were aware of!

Yes, the IBT fought the outsourcing, gathered a few thousand signatures, and the company entered in to an agreement.

The articles were a news story pointing out that the Teamsters were in fact involved in a labor dispute.

Your attempts to cover up your intentional lie are good, but let me help out.

You wrote

Nevermind the fact that the champions of stopping outsourcing to MROs cut a deal that ensured no grievances and no public statements about the outsourcing.

I would call a few thousand signatures kinda public. Ya think?

My end game? the removal of the ibt from UAL for starters.

As for my particulars... I've been on USAviation since December of 2004, and I have about 850+ posts. You've been on for how many WEEKS? And in that time you have already posted more than 25% of my total .... I think its more than obvious who has the agenda.

Maybe I have more to say?

It is no doubt you are trying to remove the IBT. I am sure you will receive some benefit in return. For my part, I am happy to discolor the rosy colored goggles you wear when describing AMFA as the answer to all. I never want to go back to them.

We both want the same thing. I want to be sure we never go back to a Union that hurt is in both the short and long terms. You want to get out of a Union that has made advancements to our future? Maybe we don;t want the same thing. But I do not understand why?

What has the Teamsters taken away from you? I am not asking how they did not live up to your expectations, I am asking, what did they TAKE from you?

 

[Anomaly]

Again, do I really need to point out yet another of your pathetic attempts at misdirection?

I have the Horizon Agreement, therefore you can be assured I also am well aware of when it was signed.

You can continue to post your articles that predate the agreement and I'll keep posting the relevent sections of the Horizon agreement which show that the ibt are slick handed, gutless sell outs, and expose you for the sniveling teamster sycophant you are.

And you wonder why I am doing this............ LMAO