Industrial vs. Craft

[Anomaly]

Ibelieve what it really all boils down to is the need of representation that is responsive to its membership and exists to serve its membership, not the other way around.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[TWU informer]

I couldn't agree more.

Do you speak as an official spokesman for the IBT? Or are you here talking your opinion?

Are you really even an Aircraft Mechanic? Or one of the other skill groups?

 

[Frank Szabo]

I couldn't agree more.

You remind me very much of the preachers that take one Biblical verse and make an entire sermon of it - even though in the process the meaning of that verse is twisted beyond recognition.

Adding in the first paragraph of my post - "The bottom line is that we need representation accountable to its membership top to bottom - not what we presently have nor representation presently in a fight with its own membership re: attempting to remove said accountability. That eliminates two "contenders" (this thread, post #270) - considerably alters your attempt to imply I'm agreeing with you. What is really being said the twu already enjoys the non-accountability the ibt is trying to acheive and by doing so neither are on my short list of "favorites" to represent my interests.

I'm not fond of those who attempt to twist words to their benefit nor is anyone else who posts on this site regularly. You're really doing your darlings more damage by attempting to sell their damaged goods especially since it's a sham - I doubt if you could even sell a whore to the Navy.

Go away.

 

[Vortilon]

Anomaly - should be: ABNORMALTY the human horse fly! Just wont go away. Resident BB TROLL..

 

[Anomaly]

You remind me very much of the preachers that take one Biblical verse and make an entire sermon of it - even though in the process the meaning of that verse is twisted beyond recognition.

Adding in the first paragraph of my post - "The bottom line is that we need representation accountable to its membership top to bottom - not what we presently have nor representation presently in a fight with its own membership re: attempting to remove said accountability. That eliminates two "contenders" (this thread, post #270) - considerably alters your attempt to imply I'm agreeing with you. What is really being said the twu already enjoys the non-accountability the ibt is trying to acheive and by doing so neither are on my short list of "favorites" to represent my interests.

I'm not fond of those who attempt to twist words to their benefit nor is anyone else who posts on this site regularly. You're really doing your darlings more damage by attempting to sell their damaged goods especially since it's a sham - I doubt if you could even sell a whore to the Navy.

Go away.

What is your question? I cut and pasted a part of your quote I agreed with. Here, I'll do it again for your benefit.

Ibelieve what it really all boils down to is the need of representation that is responsive to its membership and exists to serve its membership, not the other way around.

If I agreed with your whole sermon, I would have copied the whole thing. I agreed with some, but mostly your last sentence.

You all read way too much in to this. Even when I agree, you find a way to argue and call foul... LMAO : )

 

[Anomaly]

There is nothing to defend, I am not the official spokesman for AMFA and it was my opinion regarding MRO organizing.

Do you speak as an official spokesman for the IBT? Or are you here talking your opinion?

Are you really even an Aircraft Mechanic? Or one of the other skill groups?

I have plenty of data and facts to use for organizing, but I have no need to share with you, because you will not be voting in our election and cannot even sign a card to cause one here at AA.

You are here to divert attention from the truth, because the truth will cause a loss to the TWU.
This is not our first Rodeo here at AA, and we know what to do and how to do it.
And no paid shill from the Teamsters will divert me from the strategy to win.

Now it is OK to state our opinion? Last thread when I was posting my opinion you answered with this comment;

"You are what I call a snibbler, an industrial union zealot that does not demand from your union what you cannot stand about another. I suspect your professional standards as a mechanic are just as likely suspect too".

I can't keep up with these changing rules of yours. I thought we had to back everything up with fact?

I am not here to divert attention, I would much rather bring attention to the group you support. I want people to realize their overreaching claims. It is all the "TRUTH" but what you fail to understand is sometimes people differ on the benefits of that truth.

AMFA is a CRAFT Union. That is the truth. With the challenges today, (and we have been over them too many times to repeat) I am of the OPINION, that I am better off in a larger Industrial Union. You express your support for one idea, and me for the other.

So to the rest of you; what's the big deal?

 

[TWU informer]

snip...

AMFA is a CRAFT Union. That is the truth. With the challenges today, (and we have been over them too many times to repeat) I am of the OPINION, that I am better off in a larger Industrial Union. You express your support for one idea, and me for the other.

So to the rest of you; what's the big deal?

The industrial unions have been representing the majority of the craft or class for years now.

And instead of being able to comprehend that fact while you lay claims of failure on AMFA, it has been the industrial unions that have led us through, not only these recent darkest years of our profession and have failed us all in the profession on a grand and miserable scale, but they have also been responsible for leadership direction that has caused the complete decimation of organized labor as a whole.

Why is that the majority of the industry while it has been represented by the industrial unions, and that nobody seems to be happy with the direction we are going, and you want to keep going down the same path on the same damn horse?

You keep looking at one by one airlines and focused on AMFA....

....WHAT ABOUT THE WHOLE PROFESSION AND THE INDUSTRY?

You cannot blame AMFA for that massive and yet very visible failure.

 

[Anomaly]

You remind me very much of the preachers that take one Biblical verse and make an entire sermon of it - even though in the process the meaning of that verse is twisted beyond recognition.

Adding in the first paragraph of my post - "The bottom line is that we need representation accountable to its membership top to bottom - not what we presently have nor representation presently in a fight with its own membership re: attempting to remove said accountability. That eliminates two "contenders" (this thread, post #270) - considerably alters your attempt to imply I'm agreeing with you. What is really being said the twu already enjoys the non-accountability the ibt is trying to acheive and by doing so neither are on my short list of "favorites" to represent my interests.

I'm not fond of those who attempt to twist words to their benefit nor is anyone else who posts on this site regularly. You're really doing your darlings more damage by attempting to sell their damaged goods especially since it's a sham - I doubt if you could even sell a whore to the Navy.

Go away.

Does this lack of fondness for those who attempt to twist words go both ways?

Below is a copy and paste from TWU Informer. It is on the Support At The Line Stations thread and is post #321. Prior to that, on post #317, I responded to my own previous rant (post #267) and stated I mentioned AMFA only one time and was clearly referring to post #267.

TWU Informer cleverly took my much earlier post #24 which mentions AMFA a number of times and placed it on top of the statement I made regarding post #267 to make it look like what you see below. (notice the dates)

This is much more than twisting words. What TWU Informer does is nothing less than deception.

Anomaly, on 10 June 2012 - 04:25 PM, said: post #24


I am not with the TWU, or AMFA, but it interesting how readily the association supporters are willing to throw up the "lets compare" argument. How can you compare philosophies and wishes with reality and fact? Fact: TWU has kept work in house at AA while every other airline has outsourced. Fact; AMFA has consistently lost work to MRO vendors at each and every one of their current and former properties. Fact; other Unions fight to bring back work and improve language to create more in house jobs creating recalls and hiring new mechanics. Fact; AMFA cuts it's losses promising more to those few mechanics who remain. Fact; In a merger situation other Unions such as the Teamsters will continue to fight for the rights of their former employees (Air Trans/ Southwest, Teamsters continue to fight for seniority rights for Air Tran former IBT members). Fact; AMFA says "see ya" to former members even before the ink is dry (Mesaba Airlines former and longest running AMFA mechanics were systematically dumped by AMFA Local 11 on Jan 4, 2012 after merging with Pinnacle. A few conference calls and a couple of meetings were initiated but Mesaba mechanics were mostly left out to dry). In the end, AMFA simply has nothing but pie in the sky promises that simply can never expect to become reality. Just ask the former UAL AMFA members. They were promised plenty, then left after a few short years for a reason (the vote to leave AMFA was around 70% I think?). There is no comparison, AMFA will leave you with dreams.

Anomaly, on 16 June 2012 - 02:34 PM, said: post #317


I mentioned AMFA only one time during my above soap box speech. Yet still it was enough to set all of you organizers off like an angry hornets nest. Why can't a person support any organization of their own choosing? Why do you all have to be so angry about any one persons beliefs? Is it simply because I disagree?


#321

TWU informer Posted 16 June 2012 - 02:45 PM
You really just cannot stop telling lies can you?
Above is your first soap box speech, and marked in red text is far more than AMFA mentioned one time.

Try posting something truthful, or an opinion that you can back up with enough facts that you would put your name on it instead of hiding behind an alias and telling lies over and over and over.

 

[enough already]

No. I have no clue...

Nuff said.

 

[Anomaly]

The industrial unions have been representing the majority of the craft or class for years now.

And instead of being able to comprehend that fact while you lay claims of failure on AMFA, it has been the industrial unions that have led us through, not only these recent darkest years of our profession and have failed us all in the profession on a grand and miserable scale, but they have also been responsible for leadership direction that has caused the complete decimation of organized labor as a whole.

Why is that the majority of the industry while it has been represented by the industrial unions, and that nobody seems to be happy with the direction we are going, and you want to keep going down the same path on the same damn horse?

You keep looking at one by one airlines and focused on AMFA....

....WHAT ABOUT THE WHOLE PROFESSION AND THE INDUSTRY?

You cannot blame AMFA for that massive and yet very visible failure.

I DO NOT blame any of the unions for the decimation of our profession. The bean counters of the corporations were looking for a way to crate "profits" by cutting back on costs and they found a gold mine in the MRO's. They then used bankruptcy to facilitate the change. You are going though what I went though 10 years ago except I have had some time to realize and assign proper blame.

I also had some time to realize the best help for moving forward. It was not a craft union.

 

[Anomaly]

Nuff said.

Be careful.... Frank is not fond of those who attempt to twist words to their benefit.

Here, I'll help you out with his whole post. (I wonder if it applies to you, or if it only intended for me? )

Frank Szabo
Posted Today, 07:06 AM


You remind me very much of the preachers that take one Biblical verse and make an entire sermon of it - even though in the process the meaning of that verse is twisted beyond recognition.

Adding in the first paragraph of my post - "The bottom line is that we need representation accountable to its membership top to bottom - not what we presently have nor representation presently in a fight with its own membership re: attempting to remove said accountability. That eliminates two "contenders" (this thread, post #270) - considerably alters your attempt to imply I'm agreeing with you. What is really being said the twu already enjoys the non-accountability the ibt is trying to acheive and by doing so neither are on my short list of "favorites" to represent my interests.

I'm not fond of those who attempt to twist words to their benefit nor is anyone else who posts on this site regularly. You're really doing your darlings more damage by attempting to sell their damaged goods especially since it's a sham - I doubt if you could even sell a whore to the Navy.

Go away.

 

[Anomaly]

Nuff said.

I'll help you out so nobody gets the idea that you are trying to deceive them (which you are)

Anomaly Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:22 PM

No. I have no clue how the NMB regards the MRO mechanics. That is why I asked the question;

Are you saying a licensed aircraft mechanic working under FAR 145, is different than us airline employed mechanics in the eyes of the NMB?

I simply cited the NMB description Informer suggested.

Do you know? Would they be under the RLA? I am not suggesting that I know any of this. I am simply stating that it is funny that an AIRCRAFT MECHANICS UNION, AMFA, has done nothing to engage in thousands of unrepresented AIRCRAFT MECHANICS.

WHY?

 

[aapitbull]

I DO NOT blame any of the unions for the decimation of our profession. The bean counters of the corporations were looking for a way to crate "profits" by cutting back on costs and they found a gold mine in the MRO's. They then used bankruptcy to facilitate the change. You are going though what I went though 10 years ago except I have had some time to realize and assign proper blame.

I also had some time to realize the best help for moving forward. It was not a craft union.

But you blame AMFA for the fact that when given the right to run things for yourself you guys failed in your opinion, like I said before their are those amongst us who should not own a gun or have a check book but that does not mean I should not have one. You need big brother to run your life and decide for you what will be done, just like your senority intergration AMFA at SWA let the guys vote on what would be done, the IBT will decided what is done at UAL.

 

[Anomaly]

But you blame AMFA for the fact that when given the right to run things for yourself you guys failed in your opinion, like I said before their are those amongst us who should not own a gun or have a check book but that does not mean I should not have one. You need big brother to run your life and decide for you what will be done, just like your senority intergration AMFA at SWA let the guys vote on what would be done, the IBT will decided what is done at UAL.

I read a little about the Air Tran (IBT) vs SWA (AMFA) seniority merger, but would have to go back and look some more before responding to the claim that all were allowed to vote. From what I understand, however, these were two groups with distinct differences in pay, representation, and size.

Our case here is night and day in that regard. We have the same pay (although benefits are not equal), same representation, and at least close to the same size. In our case however, UAL has more mechanics, and much more senior mechanics at that. I am not disagreeing that there should be a vote, but at the same time, in our case Hire date I think would win out just based on the numbers at UAL.

 

[aapitbull]

I read a little about the Air Tran (IBT) vs SWA (AMFA) seniority merger, but would have to go back and look some more before responding to the claim that all were allowed to vote. From what I understand, however, these were two groups with distinct differences in pay, representation, and size.

Our case here is night and day in that regard. We have the same pay (although benefits are not equal), same representation, and at least close to the same size. In our case however, UAL has more mechanics, and much more senior mechanics at that. I am not disagreeing that there should be a vote, but at the same time, in our case Hire date I think would win out just based on the numbers at UAL.

Well I have a e-mail or two from some Cal guys who think it's B.S that you cannot vote.