Industrial vs. Craft

[Anomaly]

IMO, arguing about why the IBT or AMFA or TWU hasn't organized the domestic MROs is an irrelevant distraction - the long-suffering victims of the TWU deserve better, and if AMFA is their choice, AA's AMTs should sign cards and hold an election. It's difficult to argue that they'd fare any worse with AMFA representing them.

Cost of transport? Maybe that's an issue for airlines that don't serve SAL, but AA serves SAL from DFW and MIA and formerly served SAL from LAX (and with lower costs at AA on the horizon, I predict that LAX will again have nonstops to SAL). Doesn't cost any additional to route planes to SAL for heavy checks if you already serve that city, like AA does.

Same thing with Asian MROs. AA (and all other legacy airlines) already flies to China and HKG is a relatively short hop from mainland China or Tokyo. It's also possible that AA begins flying nonstop to HKG in the future. In any case, Asian MROs are not out-of-the-way for AA, as the 777s already fly to Asia. Cost of transport may be an issue for 763s, but that can be overcome by scheduling 763s to fly West Coast to Asia.

Scheduled maintenance of things with wings that can easily fly away for that scheduled maintenance is not something on which I'd pin my long-term future. Unscheduled maintenance and light maintenance, like A and B checks, on the other hand (like line maintenance at big cities) have to happen wherever the plane is parked overnight and thus, there will always be a need for line maintenance in big cities served by AA. Whether that line maintenance is in-house or outsourced is another story, but just like above, is not relevant to AA's AMTs need to replace the worthless union.

Bottom line is that no aircraft mechanics union has demonstrated the ability to hold back the tide of outsourcing, nor will any union be able to do so in the future. If you want to fix things in the USA for the rest of your career, cars, trucks, buses, trains and subways are good options, as none of them have the current capability of flight. Line maintenance is also a viable option.

Very good points. No argument here.

 

[Anomaly]

I'm going to say YES. Once the MRO's get their hands on the majority of AA's (the last hold out of keeping O/H inhouse) jets and start raising their prices. Then once the AMT's at these MRO's see the profits being made, they will be wanting better pay and benifits. I think we'll see AMFA, TWU, IBT all wanting to organize the MRO's.

It is hard to believe. UAL, ALaska, NWA, all lost huge numbers of mechanics to the MRO's. They all want better pay and benefits now.

 

[Anomaly]

YES

Wager?

 

[TWU informer]

IMO, arguing about why the IBT or AMFA or TWU hasn't organized the domestic MROs is an irrelevant distraction - the long-suffering victims of the TWU deserve better, and if AMFA is their choice, AA's AMTs should sign cards and hold an election. It's difficult to argue that they'd fare any worse with AMFA representing them.

...snip

snip...

Your opening statement, however, I completely disagree on a purely philosophical perspective. I believe having ALL licensed aircraft mechanics in this country organized by one Union would create a huge difference in our leverage strength. This is only if both Airline and MRO mechanics are organized in the same Union, and if not under the same contract, at least with protections in place or abilities to honor each others strikes.

Just think about it?

TWO clear cut opinions, both valid, and one matters right now, and one is for future arguement.

We must start by signing cards and then voting in AMFA across the industry in carriers first. Then we can argue about MRO's.

The point is that organizing all mechanics into one union that would have members poltically offended for the organization to say that paying a baggage handler, a stock clerk, or a passenger service agent, that same as or close to the mechanics is wrong. And that is what is wrong with being a union with those other craft or classes. The only dissenting opinion is the strength in numbers arguement. Well if 1.5 million isn't enough then what is? And given that every union in the country has lost members and the size of organized labor has shrunk since the inception of the strength in numbers idea, I doubt anyone can argue that is valid.

There is only one Union that is restricted by Constitution to the Mechanic and Related Craft and Class.

And that is AMFA.

 

[TWU informer]

Wager?

You industrial unionist have gambled with my job and my future for long enough,
No thanks!

 

[Flying low]

Just vote AMFA in and see they hold up to promises. If not then hold another card drive and vote in someone else.

All this bickering has been going on for 26 pages now. It will never end, just like the Ford vs Chevy debate that been going on since those companies were born

 

[iluvaa]

Why do you people keep arguing with snap-on we all know he's paid to be here and yet you keep a dialog with him if everyone ignored him maybe he would go away

 

[Anomaly]

Wager?

You industrial unionist have gambled with my job and my future for long enough,
No thanks!

You are wiling to shout in big bold letters, YES AMFA will attempt to organize the MRO's. But you will not defend that statement?

Maybe at a later date you will provide more inside information?

Or will you post another

Sorry that data is to be used at a strategic later date and will not be displayed publicly until that time and I have been asked to not post it.

Dude, you kill me.

 

[DNTULSA]

Right back atcha, son.

(In Texas talk, it means Kiss my rebel ass)

Abnormally,

Mark the spot, your'e all ass!


No one is paying the attention to you on this board that you would like . Whoever is paying you to do this is not getting his money's worth. ( neither is the airline you supposedly work for!)

 

[TWU informer]

Yo you are wiling to shout in big bold letters, YES AMFA will attempt to organize the MRO's. But you will not defend that statement?

Maybe at a later date you will provide more inside information?

Or will you post another

Sorry that data is to be used at a strategic later date and will not be displayed publicly until that time and I have been asked to not post it.

Dude, you kill me.

There is nothing to defend, I am not the official spokesman for AMFA and it was my opinion regarding MRO organizing.

Do you speak as an official spokesman for the IBT? Or are you here talking your opinion?

Are you really even an Aircraft Mechanic? Or one of the other skill groups?

I have plenty of data and facts to use for organizing, but I have no need to share with you, because you will not be voting in our election and cannot even sign a card to cause one here at AA.

You are here to divert attention from the truth, because the truth will cause a loss to the TWU.
This is not our first Rodeo here at AA, and we know what to do and how to do it.
And no paid shill from the Teamsters will divert me from the strategy to win.

 

[odie01]

Analomoly,
The AMFA drive is alive and well in Tulsa, AFW, and all the line stations. Go play in traffic, dickweed.

 

[xUT]

You are wiling to shout in big bold letters, YES AMFA will attempt to organize the MRO's. But you will not defend that statement?

Maybe at a later date you will provide more inside information?

Or will you post another

Sorry that data is to be used at a strategic later date and will not be displayed publicly until that time and I have been asked to not post it.

Dude, you kill me.

You need to change you pen name to:


ob·fus·cate
 [ob-fuh-skeyt, ob-fuhs-keyt]

1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.
2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information.


Why do I feel an IBT commercial coming to this site soon?

 

[whoop whoop]

184 posts in 2 weeks and all I get from anomaly is AMFA...BAD....IBT.....GOOD. But never talks facts. It's always I feel, my opinion, blah blah blah......

Fact is AMFA is the only union fighting for and advancing our profession. Were there some losses? YES, but there is very rarely a PERFECT GAME PITCHED.

All he tries to bring up is the few negatives of AMFA and a whole lot of cow poopoo. But never has any negatives for the ibt, and when encountered by some, his response is, na na so is AMFA, like a child. Fact is, he NEVER HAD A POSITIVE THING TO SAY ABOUT THE ibt....... All just scare tactics to try to turn people away from AMFA, but never anything good to bring people to the ibt.

 

[xUT]

There is nothing to defend, I am not the official spokesman for AMFA and it was my opinion regarding MRO organizing.

Do you speak as an official spokesman for the IBT? Or are you here talking your opinion?

Are you really even an Aircraft Mechanic? Or one of the other skill groups?

I have plenty of data and facts to use for organizing, but I have no need to share with you, because you will not be voting in our election and cannot even sign a card to cause one here at AA.

You are here to divert attention from the truth, because the truth will cause a loss to the TWU.
This is not our first Rodeo here at AA, and we know what to do and how to do it.
And no paid shill from the Teamsters will divert me from the strategy to win.

FWAAA nailed the MRO discussion. The IBT/IAM/TWU...etc have had over several decades to organize MRO's but did nothing, now it's all AMFA's fault.

IBT flim/flam Razzle-Dazzle


B) xUT

 

[Frank Szabo]

The bottom line is that we need representation accountable to its membership top to bottom - not what we presently have nor representation presently in a fight with its own membership re: attempting to remove said accountability. That eliminates two "contenders".

The contender remaining brings much concern to many at AA who aren't certificated. Many remember a group of AMFA zealots walking through the hall by the machine shops saying things like "When we get in, you SOBs are history", implying only those holding A&P certs have skills of value. Those memories are at the surface for many people, with all that's going on, and why many won't sign anything but an ibt card as with most that I work with who have signed.

Let's be real here - the twu has justified fear re: losing a rather significant portion of their income, so why would they tolerate the ibt doing a run on their "benefactors"? I say tolerate because ibt literature is left laying about by twu reps and officers, in contrast to any AMFA materials being immediately torn up and tossed in the trash. The ibt "threatens" to reduce the twu's income as surely as AMFA winning an election - why the difference?

Wouldn't that have something to do with the standard group of twu cheerleaders having relatively DISAPPEARED?

It's more than obvious we are the targets of yet another scam by those we pay to "represent" us and some of their friends. Another outfit, hoping to gain representational rights to AA's mechanic and related group, needs to learn those with A&P certificates are not the only individuals possessing needed skills and that an apology is definitely in order to people put off by AMFA years ago and those particular loudmouth individuals "spoken" to.

Ibelieve what it really all boils down to is the need of representation that is responsive to its membership and exists to serve its membership, not the other way around.