Industrial vs. Craft

[DNTULSA]

You must be in management now.

That's funny! I am a retired AA aircraft mechanic. I retired from TULE 10 years ago.
I didn't like suckees (union or otherwise) such as you then, and I don't like them now.

Quick, back at me with the rattling fingers!

 

[xUT]

You write like he talks.

So for me it is a lie, but for you a huge 'faux pas'

I am starting to understand the rules here now.

Here is another very well done explanation on the strike, since it has become a major topic.

http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/180

Over all, it refutes the argument that the other Unions caused the failed strike.

OK, we'll play this "liar liar pants on fire' game but you won't like it.
Did you read the piece you linked?
B) xUT

 

[Anomaly]

OK, we'll play this "liar liar pants on fire' game but you won't like it.
Did you read the piece you linked?
B) xUT

What do you mean "OK we'll play"??

You all have been doing this to me since I started posting. Your only motive for calling me a liar is that I refute your "broad based" opinions and I refuse to state my name. Your game, I just finally decided to crawl down here with you all for a while.

Don't worry. It takes a lot of time to look up the truth about crap you an the others say. I won't be doing that for too much longer. My wife loves the line about me being a paid IBT/TWU organizer. She promised to divorce me if that ever happened. She is not a fan either.

Feel free to comb through my past posts for any huge 'faux pas'. : )

Yes I did read the piece.

http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/180

It offered a lengthy account of what happened at NWA. I am not sure that I agree with every single point, but over all I found it to be informative. A problem?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The Teamsters, nor the TWU, or IAM contend to be CRAFT Unions. I am saying if a group is making the boast that they are going to be a mechanics union, how can they ignore the largest group of mechanics out there. The MRO's are killing us as a dedicated airline mechanic craft. As a UAL guy, you should know this.

AMFA's Mechanic only idea will only work if they eliminate the competition. They do this by organizing.

You're just making this up as you go.

You cite the threat the MRO's present to "US" and you chose to only critique AMFA because they call themselves a craft union?

Again, just another splendid example of your flawed reasoning.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

When purchasing tickets, show me a single tab that organizes flights according to aircraft maintenance. We might, but the public does not care.

And again, You cite the threats of the MROs and when that critique is challenged by pointing out your union of choice has done nothing to stem the tide either, you now try and deflect by making it an issue that the public doesn't care.

Face it, you cannot try and sling mud on AMFA concerning MROs without the teamsters catching some in equal measure.

 

[Anomaly]

Other Unions IAM, IBT, and IAM assisted in the hiring of scabs and the IBT Pilots of commuter airlines flew flights to make up for delays due to lack of maintenace. The Article refutes nothing regarding those facts.

Facts ??? NO.

Another lie ?? Yes.

Show me these facts. Give me an article. Or a reference. I have not seen this claim that it was the other unions fault on any of the documents I have looked up.

I think you are making this up. The other Unions too had their hands full with NWA and the bankruptcy.

Again,

http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/180

 

[Anomaly]

And again, You cite the threats of the MROs and when that critique is challenged by pointing out your union of choice has done nothing to stem the tide either, you now try and deflect by making it an issue that the public doesn't care.

Face it, you cannot try and sling mud on AMFA concerning MROs without the teamsters catching some in equal measure.

I think the Teamsters should go after the MRO's. I wish they would. Would you support that move? Or would you continue to criticize and try to derail from within?

 

[TWU informer]

Facts ??? NO.

Another lie ?? Yes.

Show me these facts. Give me an article. Or a reference. I have not seen this claim that it was the other unions fault on any of the documents I have looked up.

I think you are making this up. The other Unions too had their hands full with NWA and the bankruptcy.

Again,

http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/180

Sorry that data is to be used at a strategic later date and will not be displayed publicly until that time and I have been asked to not post it.

 

[Anomaly]

You're just making this up as you go.

You cite the threat the MRO's present to "US" and you chose to only critique AMFA because they call themselves a craft union?

Again, just another splendid example of your flawed reasoning.

What are you living under a rock? At UAL we have lost around 10,000 mechanics. We have somewhere around 70% outsourcing. My numbers may be off, but the point is look at all the work we use to do which is now being done by vendors. Vendors now employ more mechanics that we do.

I do not have to make this up. It is all available on the web. Another LIE from you.

http://www.oig.dot.gov/library-item/5228

BACKGROUND
Repair stations conduct a range of repairs and maintenance, from critical components—such as landing gear and engine overhauls—to heavy airframe maintenance checks, which are a complete teardown and overhaul of the aircraft. Currently, there are 4,858 FAA-certificated repair stations, 4,126 of which are located in the United States. Since 1994, the number of FAA-certificated foreign repair stations has increased from 344 to 731. Figure 1 shows worldwide locations of FAA-certificated repair stations.

This was from a report written November 18, 2009.

There are several articles and letters on this site of the DOT's Office of Inspector General.

 

[Anomaly]

Sorry that data is to be used at a strategic later date and will not be displayed publicly until that time and I have been asked to not post it.

OF COURSE..... LOL

Face it. YOU ARE LYING !!!

 

[xUT]

Facts ??? NO.

Another lie ?? Yes.

Show me these facts. Give me an article. Or a reference. I have not seen this claim that it was the other unions fault on any of the documents I have looked up.

I think you are making this up. The other Unions too had their hands full with NWA and the bankruptcy.

Again,

http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/180

About Solidarity


BASIS OF POLITICAL AGREEMENT
(as amended in 2004)

1. Capitalism is an outmoded social system now deep in crisis. This crisis is producing a declining standard of living and an escalating drive toward war. This crisis is the unavoidable outcome of capital's most basic drives. Humanity will only be freed from the barbarism of war, environmental devastation, poverty, unemployment and declining living standards for millions when capitalism has been displaced by a rational, planned, democratic, and participatory economic system: socialism.
   
2. Socialism is the political and economic rule of the working class, in which the means of production are under the social ownership of the working class, which democratically plans economic life. The working class organizes its political and economic rule through councils of workers and popular representatives, freely chosen among a variety of organized working class and popular parties.
   
3. Socialism can only be achieved by a revolutionary mass political movement of the working class which ends the political rule of the capitalist class and private ownership of the means of production.
   
4. The aim of this organization is to build a revolutionary socialist movement in the working class and allied sectors of the oppressed. Membership is open to all who share our principles and work toward achieving them.
   
5. The capitalist parties, especially the Republican and Democratic parties, are fundamentally anti-working class, racist and sexist. We oppose any form of participation in or support for these parties. We call for the working class and its allies to form a new, independent political party that fights for their needs.
   
6. The capitalist crisis has set in motion an employers' offensive that necessitates national and international labor solidarity as well as organizing the unorganized. The labor bureaucracy for the most part acts as a brake on labor action. We therefore support all efforts to transform the unions into militant vehicles, including rank and file groupings within the unions as well as coalitions against concessions and strike support committees.
   
7. Racial and national oppression divide the working class and create poverty and misery for millions. We join in the fight against racism, such as the struggle for affirmative action, and support the efforts of oppressed national minorities to organize independently for their liberation.
   
8. We fight for women's liberation, and for women's equality today. The oppression of women within the family and in society divides the working class, keeps women's wages low and burdens women unequally in the task of social reproduction.
   
9. We are supporters of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ) liberation, of their struggles for civil rights and against all forms of bigotry. We support, as with all oppressed groups, the efforts of LGBTQ people to organize independently for their liberation.
   
10. We are internationalists. We support movements for self-determination and national liberation throughout the world and the struggles of workers for better living standards and social and political power everywhere. Whatever may be our differing theoretical analyses of any particular struggle, we are unconditional defenders of movements for genuine trade unionism and workers' democracy
    
11. We actively oppose the growing drive towards war, whether that be in the form of intervention in Central America, the Middle East or elsewhere, or the buildup of the U.S. war machine. We fight for unilateral disarmament in the U.S. and, at the same time, we extend our solidarity to the independent peace movements of Eastern Europe.
    
12. Toward these ends we are committed to building an effective revolutionary socialist organization in the U.S. capable of acting together without presenting a monolithic face to the world or engaging in pretenses of being "the vanguard."

Cool...
Not my choice, but hey, who am I?
B) xut

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I think the Teamsters should go after the MRO's. I wish they would. Would you support that move? Or would you continue to criticize and try to derail from within?

I would support any unions attempt at organizing MROs, and YES that includes the teamsters.

 

[Anomaly]

Sorry that data is to be used at a strategic later date and will not be displayed publicly until that time and I have been asked to not post it.

You can not even offer one little tiny example to support your claims?

 

[TWU informer]

I suggest we stop wasting time with arguements about the past and keep our focus on change for our future.
Wollering in the mud with someone who will never change their mind and is a paid shill is playing the opponents game.

There will be a time for all of this. Let's get the cards signed.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

What are you living under a rock? At UAL we have lost around 10,000 mechanics. We have somewhere around 70% outsourcing. My numbers may be off, but the point is look at all the work we use to do which is now being done by vendors. Vendors now employ more mechanics that we do.

I do not have to make this up. It is all available on the web. Another LIE from you.

http://www.oig.dot.g...brary-item/5228

BACKGROUND
Repair stations conduct a range of repairs and maintenance, from critical components—such as landing gear and engine overhauls—to heavy airframe maintenance checks, which are a complete teardown and overhaul of the aircraft. Currently, there are 4,858 FAA-certificated repair stations, 4,126 of which are located in the United States. Since 1994, the number of FAA-certificated foreign repair stations has increased from 344 to 731. Figure 1 shows worldwide locations of FAA-certificated repair stations.

This was from a report written November 18, 2009.

There are several articles and letters on this site of the DOT's Office of Inspector General.

Thank you for yet another failed attempt at deflection.

I've lied about nothing.

You continue to cite the MRO threat and you critique AMFA for not organizing them. I never said the threat wasn't real, I pointed out your flagrant hypocrisy as you support the teamsters who have done nothing in the very same arena, yet try to make it a point of failure for AMFA.

Nice try.