Industrial vs. Craft

[TWU informer]

The Teamsters, nor the TWU, or IAM contend to be CRAFT Unions. I am saying if a group is making the boast that they are going to be a mechanics union, how can they ignore the largest group of mechanics out there. The MRO's are killing us as a dedicated airline mechanic craft. As a UAL guy, you should know this.

AMFA's Mechanic only idea will only work if they eliminate the competition. They do this by organizing.

First things First. Nobody is ignoring anybody. If AMFA went MRO first, you would then just publish those payscales and claim AMFA sucks then too and still be standing in the way of ONE UNION for ALL MECHANICS without the other crafts or classes in the organization.

You are such a pathetic one sided negative mind.

Of course the MRO's will also be targeted.

Stop standing in the way of progress and you will see that is true.

 

[Anomaly]

Maybe the time has come for The AMFA to cover only certificated mechanics.

MRO's have plenty of them too.

 

[TWU informer]

AMFA Constitution


There shall be two divisions of membership:

1. Airline Technical Division – shall include all
licensed and unlicensed maintenance personnel who
work or instruct directly on aircraft and/or components
of a certificated air carrier and are responsible
for the airworthiness or workmanship of the aircraft
and/or its components. This includes maintenance
support technicians and related personnel as defined
by the National Mediation Board’s determination of
the Mechanics and Related Class and Craft.


2. Aviation Technical Division – shall include all
licensed and unlicensed maintenance personnel who
work directly on general aviation aircraft and/or
components and are responsible for the airworthiness
and workmanship of an aircraft and/or its
components. This includes line, shop, and hangar
maintenance.

 

[Anomaly]

First things First. Nobody is ignoring anybody. If AMFA went MRO first, you would then just publish those payscales and claim AMFA sucks then too and still be standing in the way of ONE UNION for ALL MECHANICS without the other crafts or classes in the organization.

You are such a pathetic one sided negative mind.

Of course the MRO's will also be targeted.

Stop standing in the way of progress and you will see that is true.

Not at all. I would truly have more respect for the association if they did exactly that. AMFA has not proven that they could negotiate a contract from the beginning. MRO organizing would force them to do just that. Maybe then, could they gain respect of a real self standing Union rather then the raiding association they are known to be.

 

[TWU informer]

Not at all. I would truly have more respect for the association if they did exactly that. AMFA has not proven that they could negotiate a contract from the beginning. MRO organizing would force them to do just that. Maybe then, could they gain respect of a real self standing Union rather then the raiding association they are known to be.

Again, quit standing in the way. Quit supporting scab Unions that have harmed your fellow AMT's.
Support the idea of all mechanics in one union and stop bashing the idea.

Again, myself and others have always called AMFA, not AMFA showing up with paid raiders like the IBT has in Tulsa right now.
That you seem to ingore.

Try supporting the idea to the finish, instead of harping on the bumps along the way, or even worse supporting the institutions that trying to destroy the idea before it can succeed.

 

[Anomaly]

AMFA Constitution


There shall be two divisions of membership:

1. Airline Technical Division – shall include all
licensed and unlicensed maintenance personnel who
work or instruct directly on aircraft and/or components
of a certificated air carrier and are responsible
for the airworthiness or workmanship of the aircraft
and/or its components. This includes maintenance
support technicians and related personnel as defined
by the National Mediation Board’s determination of
the Mechanics and Related Class and Craft.


2. Aviation Technical Division – shall include all
licensed and unlicensed maintenance personnel who
work directly on general aviation aircraft and/or
components and are responsible for the airworthiness
and workmanship of an aircraft and/or its
components. This includes line, shop, and hangar
maintenance.

Good for you. Now what does this have to do with MRO Aircraft Mechanics?

 

[Anomaly]

Learn the NMB Rules on Craft or Class and the Railway Labor Act, and you will feel foolish for making such a statement.

OK, Now what?? Is this just another one of your smoke screens? Come on..... that trick is getting old.

According to the NMB

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/representation-manual.pdf

9.1 Craft or Class
In craft or class determinations, the NMB considers many factors, including the composition and relative permanency of employee groupings along craft or class lines; the functions, duties, and responsibilities of the employees; the general nature of their work; and the extent of community of interest existing between job classifications. Previous decisions of the NMB are also taken into account.

Are you saying a licensed aircraft mechanic working under FAR 145, is different than us airline employed mechanics in the eyes of the NMB? You sure you know what you are talking about?

Remember, the internet allows me and everyone else to look up an verify all the crap you are spewing.

 

[xUT]

Apparently you are incorrect. (I won't say you lied)

http://www.iww.org/en/node/1356

NWA-AMFA striking mechanics were joined by hundreds of other other airline workers and other trade unionists at San Francisco International Airport on Labor Day 2005.

Most significantly, IAM strikers and union officials joined the rally in support. Janice Sisco, who is with IAM NWA COFPS Grievance Committee Chairperson spoke in solidarity and said that all units were threatened by the attack on the mechanics. She also said that she supported the action of the Healthrow workers in shutting down the airport in support of the Gourmet food supply workers who were out on strike.
Also joining the rally was striking IAM 1546 shop steward and mechanic Nat Courtney. Courtney reported that he and 13 other auto technicians had been on strike since June 13 when they were replaced by a new owner at Berkeley Honda. He said that after 31 years he thought he would be able to retire in a few years but the new owner had refused to rehire any of the union mechanics in an open violation of the law.
He joined in supporting the AMFA-IAM mechanics and said their struggle was the same.


Was this the same shop steward you supposedly spoke with?

Is your first name Brian?

BTW, YOU LIED. I guess I will say it after all.

Thank you for the correction. I was focusing on United IAM and performed a huge 'faux pas' forgetting about Janice and Nat.
There were a 'few' non-United IAM people that supported AMFA and I apologize to these people.

Good you can find an article from Jennifer. Good honest reporting.

Here is an excerpt that you left out:

Absent at this important solidarity rally was the AFL-CIO and Change To Win leaders in the bay area. SF Labor Council Secretary-Treasurer Tim Paulson and Alameda Labor Council Secretary Treasurer Sharon Cornu as well as San Mateo Central Labor Council Secretary Treasurer Shelley Kessler were conspicuous by their absence. Also the Alameda Labor Council has formally endorsed the strike after ILWU Local 10 delegate Jack Heyman and UAW 2244 Delegate Carolyn Lund invited the AMFA-NWA to make a presentation at a labor council meeting. Wanting to avoid a fight at all costs, Cornu told delegates she had taken a poll of the Executive Committee and it had voted to support the strike.
The John Sweeney leadership on August 15, 2005 sent out a memo to every AFL-CIO affiliated labor council and state body that there could be no solidarity whatsoever with the AMFA-NWA striking workers. This is obviously not the sentiment of the workers themselves who see a defeat of AMFA as a defeat of their own conditions and living standards.

Thanks John!

B) xUT

--- edited by me ---
No I am not Brian or do you not understand the 'xUT' nom de plume ?

--- additional edit ---
As a side bar, IIRC, there were several IAM Ramp that refused to do push backs up to including being forced to do so by contract changes. My 'UPMOST' Respect for these people!
Good Union People!
B) xUT

 

[Anomaly]

Again, quit standing in the way. Quit supporting scab Unions that have harmed your fellow AMT's.
Support the idea of all mechanics in one union and stop bashing the idea.

Again, myself and others have always called AMFA, not AMFA showing up with paid raiders like the IBT has in Tulsa right now.
That you seem to ingore.

Try supporting the idea to the finish, instead of harping on the bumps along the way, or even worse supporting the institutions that trying to destroy the idea before it can succeed.

Nothing else to say? I have you reduced to repeating yourself.

I am exposing your BS.

 

[TWU informer]

Nothing else to say? I have you reduced to repeating yourself.

I am exposing your BS.

Is that all you have to refute the facts?

 

[TWU informer]

Maybe the time has come for The AMFA to cover only certificated mechanics.

Learn the NMB Rules on Craft or Class and the Railway Labor Act, and you will feel foolish for making such a statement.

OK, Now what?? Is this just another one of your smoke screens? Come on..... that trick is getting old.

According to the NMB

http://www.nmb.gov/r...tion-manual.pdf

9.1 Craft or Class
In craft or class determinations, the NMB considers many factors, including the composition and relative permanency of employee groupings along craft or class lines; the functions, duties, and responsibilities of the employees; the general nature of their work; and the extent of community of interest existing between job classifications. Previous decisions of the NMB are also taken into account.

Are you saying a licensed aircraft mechanic working under FAR 145, is different than us airline employed mechanics in the eyes of the NMB? You sure you know what you are talking about?

Remember, the internet allows me and everyone else to look up an verify all the crap you are spewing.

No I was claiming that the NMB will never let certificated only AMT's have their own union without the other skills to be in the group also. Read through the above quoted discussion and exchange once again and try to keep up instead of twisting what is said into some mind screw to assist your fear mongering and negative views about Mechanics wanting a Mechanics Union.

 

[Anomaly]

Thank you for the correction. I was focusing on United IAM and performed a huge 'faux pas' forgetting about Janice and Nat.
There were a 'few' non-United IAM people that supported AMFA and I apologize to these people.

Good you can find an article from Jennifer. Good honest reporting.

Here is an excerpt that you left out:



Thanks John!

B) xUT

--- edited by me ---
No I am not Brian or do you not understand the 'xUT' nom de plume ?

You write like he talks.

So for me it is a lie, but for you a huge 'faux pas'

I am starting to understand the rules here now.

Here is another very well done explanation on the strike, since it has become a major topic.

http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/180

Over all, it refutes the argument that the other Unions caused the failed strike.

 

[Anomaly]

No I was claiming that the NMB will never let certificated only AMT's have their own union without the other skills to be in the group also. Read through the above quoted discussion and exchange once again and try to keep up instead of twisting what is said into some mind screw to assist your fear mongering and negative views about Mechanics wanting a Mechanics Union.

Oh just admit it....... YOU LIED

 

[Anomaly]

Is that all you have to refute the facts?

Not at all. You never responded to this, however. I can't wait for the lies to come.


I have been very "liberal" about some of the stories you tell, but this one is .... WOW.

This is just not true. Many Industrial Unions helped according to an article from the lWW.

http://www.iww.org/en/node/1356

There were many of us who wanted to help out with the picket lines after the strike had been going on for a few weeks. But we honestly did not find any active picket lines. Many of you said there were in fact active lines, so I decided to do the research for myself. I discovered there were picket lines. There was also a reason the strike failed. It had nothing to do with the TWU, IAM, or the IBT. According to a USA Today article,

http://www.usatoday....st-strike_x.htm

On Wednesday, Northwest spokesman Bill Mellon said Northwest has finished hiring permanent replacements in Minneapolis. "Overall, the airline has hired nearly all the 880 technicians it requires," he said. Northwest has said previously it would need mechanics only in Minneapolis and Detroit.
The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association made a huge bet that Northwest would struggle without them and travelers would flee, forcing the airline to offer a better deal. On Day 10, AMFA National Director O.V. Delle-Femine predicted: "In a couple weeks, people are going to see the failure of this airline."
But Northwest followed through on months of public statements that it had lined up enough replacement workers to fly without union mechanics. Every other Northwest union kept working. Although it struggled with late flights in the days before and after the strike, it kept flying.

I love this. (It makes you sound a lot like Delle actually)

"This strike's over," said aviation consultant Michael Boyd of Evergreen, Colo. "Northwest was ready for a strike. They were not playing games. They had a plan which they worked on for 18 months, and they were ready to do it."
AMFA National Director O.V. Delle-Femine said he doesn't believe that Northwest has really filled nearly all the positions once held by members of his union. He said some members are still getting phone calls from the airline asking them to come back.
"Our pickets are still out there, and it's really doing harm to this carrier, he said. "They're still struggling to hire people."
Delle-Femine visited strikers in Minneapolis on Saturday, and said their morale is high and that they're prepared for a long strike.

Preparing for a long strike is against AMFA's philosophies. There are no funds to help members get through a strike. AMFA relied on donations of the INDUSTRIAL UNIONS to help members financially including a generous donation from the UAW of $880,000.00. But after the first 30 days, the money quit coming in, and members began to loose confidence. This update from AMFA Local 9.

http://www.uofmskill...iles/strike.pdf

There are many reasons for the failure. You do not have to start making up more.

 

[TWU informer]

You write like he talks.

So for me it is a lie, but for you a huge 'faux pas'

I am starting to understand the rules here now.

Here is another very well done explanation on the strike, since it has become a major topic.

http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/180

Over all, it refutes the argument that the other Unions caused the failed strike.

Other Unions IAM, IBT, and IAM assisted in the hiring of scabs and the IBT Pilots of commuter airlines flew flights to make up for delays due to lack of maintenace. The Article refutes nothing regarding those facts.