Industrial vs. Craft

[Ken MacTiernan]

craig/brain,

"AMFA does not have the fortitude, guidance, or self control to sit back and ask themselves, "maybe by continuing this crusade we are actually doing more harm than good?" AMFA has no guiding light or moral principal."

The twu is better than AMFA? I figured you for a Local 514 official.

"No I am not that person, I am from local 14 I also go by the name Brain on here."

Wow, you have to post under two different aliases to make it seem as if your belief in having a craft, democratic union is wrong actually has support?

"Moral principal" is that anything like moral PRINCIPLE? You know that which is possessed by appointed twu international officers like bobby gless when he told guys in JFK they had to "lower their expectations" knowing full well that he did not have to fear living under more concessions.

Go ahead and create another alias to keep yourself company.

The twu where we believe strength in numbers include our imaginary friends.

 

[amtcraig1]

So a guy signs an agreement not to commit the infraction again for 12 months, he cannot comply, and you are blaming AMFA?
And now you have an axe to grind? Whatever happened to being accountable for his own actions? At some point professional standards and the law come into play. You seem to not know or cannot post alot about this matter, so it must have been really bad or you not have to keep it all big secret. Where does any Union draw the line?

Here at AA, AMFA did not start any "crusade" as you call it. Our current sucks, needs to be replaced, which you should be able to see by reading here, and we decided on AMFA and they are hleing us out at our request. Is that hard for you to understand?

I hope you become or perhaps you are an AMFA member. You sure think like them. (I mean [them] the association, and just so you dont jump down my throat ..yes I am one of them) You AA group should note this..... What he has said is the companys facts are right. So his actions caused his firing....I have noticed with AMFA the company is almost always right..and even when there not well it will be ok, read Whatever happened to being accountable for his own actions? these actions the company have said he did. they determine how to make him accountable.. so he's done..... I love AMFA and there idea of democracy...you do know that corporations don't run there companys like a Democracy...you can't vote for anyone and have NO say in how they execute there business plan....and by the way, this is way they are in bankruptcy.... so when you get AMFA in there make sure you sit with the company and tell them there new five year plan so they can submit it to bankruptcy court..OK... then demand your fair share

 

[amtcraig1]

craig/brain,

"AMFA does not have the fortitude, guidance, or self control to sit back and ask themselves, "maybe by continuing this crusade we are actually doing more harm than good?" AMFA has no guiding light or moral principal."

The twu is better than AMFA? I figured you for a Local 514 official.

"No I am not that person, I am from local 14 I also go by the name Brain on here."

Wow, you have to post under two different aliases to make it seem as if your belief in having a craft, democratic union is wrong actually has support?

"Moral principal" is that anything like moral PRINCIPLE? You know that which is possessed by appointed twu international officers like bobby gless when he told guys in JFK they had to "lower their expectations" knowing full well that he did not have to fear living under more concessions.

Go ahead and create another alias to keep yourself company.

The twu where we believe strength in numbers include our imaginary friends.

Ken I did say why I have two user names. I think this bothers you so I'm sorry. but when i'm on my laptop i'm brain and at home i'm amtcraig1...I'm not with the TWU.. my name for the second time is Craig Steiner...OK again SORRY for the two signin

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Ken I did say why I have two user names. I think this bothers you so I'm sorry. but when i'm on my laptop i'm brain and at home i'm amtcraig1...I'm not with the TWU.. my name for the second time is Craig Steiner...OK again SORRY for the two signin

Craig,

I did not see your original post indicating why you use two alias'. My apologies. I also must have put a "5" in front of your local 14. Again my bad.

You do seem to post as if you are in the twu. If you are not in the twu why do you promote an industrial union for a skilled craft work force?

Ken

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

As it seems to be one of the main topics of the day, it should be noted that not all terminations go to arbitration. Thats not just with AMFA, but ALL unions.

If the company as an example,has a video showing a member clearly sleeping, stealing, fighting, etc, while a union could and normally does attempt to mitigate a termination during the greivance procedure prior to arbitration(last chance agrements,etc), if the company has that sort of evidence and ultimately will not bargain, I as a union member don't want my dues money spent on someone who is clearly guilty.

While not every case is clear cut, several indeed are and should not have arbitration resources expended.As there are indeed cases where a member has been fired unjustly, it is those cases that should be taken to arbitration, and not simply every case that crosses the desk just because a member has been fired.

Lastly, despite the termination horror stories one might come across here, it should be noted that all unions are subject to DFR lawsuits should they arbitrarily refuse to advance a termination case that has merit.

 

[TWU informer]

I hope you become or perhaps you are an AMFA member. You sure think like them. (I mean [them] the association, and just so you dont jump down my throat ..yes I am one of them) You AA group should note this..... What he has said is the companys facts are right. So his actions caused his firing....I have noticed with AMFA the company is almost always right..and even when there not well it will be ok, read Whatever happened to being accountable for his own actions? these actions the company have said he did. they determine how to make him accountable.. so he's done..... I love AMFA and there idea of democracy...you do know that corporations don't run there companys like a Democracy...you can't vote for anyone and have NO say in how they execute there business plan....and by the way, this is way they are in bankruptcy.... so when you get AMFA in there make sure you sit with the company and tell them there new five year plan so they can submit it to bankruptcy court..OK... then demand your fair share

You are the one grinding and AXE but cannot provide details. Some people need to be fired. That is a sad fact, but some just cannot remain inside the required boundries. And that is NOT the Unions fault, regardless of the name of the union.

 

[whatajoke]

Your union dues are going to protect slugs that do deserve to be fired.
If this union had any ba--s it would decline some of the grievances that it fights.
I think your local officials are all afraid of DFR.

 

[amtcraig1]

You are the one grinding and AXE but cannot provide details. Some people need to be fired. That is a sad fact, but some just cannot remain inside the required boundries. And that is NOT the Unions fault, regardless of the name of the union.

I have NO AXE to grind..I am an active member of AMFA, I participate and support the members I work with, they are a GREAT bunch of Professional. and I am proud and Honored to be able to work with them... and for that I wil not let you try them here... so don't ask again for the details...

 

[amtcraig1]

As it seems to be one of the main topics of the day, it should be noted that not all terminations go to arbitration. Thats not just with AMFA, but ALL unions.

If the company as an example,has a video showing a member clearly sleeping, stealing, fighting, etc, while a union could and normally does attempt to mitigate a termination during the greivance procedure prior to arbitration(last chance agrements,etc), if the company has that sort of evidence and ultimately will not bargain, I as a union member don't want my dues money spent on someone who is clearly guilty.

While not every case is clear cut, several indeed are and should not have arbitration resources expended.As there are indeed cases where a member has been fired unjustly, it is those cases that should be taken to arbitration, and not simply every case that crosses the desk just because a member has been fired.

Lastly, despite the termination horror stories one might come across here, it should be noted that all unions are subject to DFR lawsuits should they arbitrarily refuse to advance a termination case that has merit.

Maybe I wasn't clear...Amfa never refuses to proceed...They just put the cost onto the terminated member.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Maybe I wasn't clear...Amfa never refuses to proceed...They just put the cost onto the terminated member.

Yes, I understood that point of your post.

My point remains, there are times when the evidence CLEARLY shows an individual guilty. Not simple he-said-she-said scenarios with the company, I'm talking about concrete proof.

A members termination is not mandate for an automatic arbitration, it doesn't happen in AMFA, the IAM or the ibt.

 

[TWU informer]

I have NO AXE to grind..I am an active member of AMFA, I participate and support the members I work with, they are a GREAT bunch of Professional. and I am proud and Honored to be able to work with them... and for that I wil not let you try them here... so don't ask again for the details...

So YOU ARE the terminated member? Did I read that correctly?

 

[AC Tynker]

So YOU ARE the terminated member? Did I read that correctly?

amtcraig1, You probably already know but I just wanted to point out that Your being baited for more of an arguement and/or aggervation. You typed in plain english the answer to his question earlier in the thread and he knows it because I wasn't even involved in the conversation and I understood what you posted. Anytime anyone relates anything negative about AMFA that is or was an "ACTUAL" AMFA represented member he either calls them a liar or says they don't know what they are talking about. He must have recieved some kind of know all see all decoder ring when he became a "Charter" AMFA member in a complimentary box of cracker jacks they gave him is the only thing I can figure because his powers are amazing.

 

[Buck]

amtcraig1, You probably already know but I just wanted to point out that Your being baited for more of an arguement and/or aggervation. You typed in plain english the answer to his question earlier in the thread and he knows it because I wasn't even involved in the conversation and I understood what you posted. Anytime anyone relates anything negative about AMFA that is or was an "ACTUAL" AMFA represented member he either calls them a liar or says they don't know what they are talking about. He must have recieved some kind of know all see all decoder ring when he became a "Charter" AMFA member in a complimentary box of cracker jacks they gave him is the only thing I can figure because his powers are amazing.

Now you are making me laugh...

 

[AC Tynker]

Now you are making me laugh...

Good deal, I was trying to. Your ability seems to come natural.

 

[Anomaly]

Why the hell is everyone blaming me for his actions? I was suspended before myself, and it was because of my own actions and a post that I made and was considered by the moderators to be worthy of suspension and warn status, not because someone "turned me in" or reported that post. The guy made his bed and I didn't put him in it. He was pushing the limit on the identity of others issue which is the same violation I committed and he put himself on suspension. He was even inlcuding some threats along with identification of others.

No big deal, he will be back, just as I was. He and everyone else just need to leave the identity of others issue alone and stop violating that policy.

Everyone cannot see another users warn status, but you can see your own if you have been warned

TWU Informer
Veteran
Registered Member
5,946 posts
1 warning points

It is typical Industrial Union thinking to believe that nobody should be held accountable, and that rules are made to be broken. When someone breaks the rules and is caught, then they all blame it on someone else. Just like murderers and molestors who lawyers claim their parents are responsilble. And now the Industrial Unionist even use that thought process as a campaign/debate tool on this forum. Very professional! That is what you get with Teamsters, TWU, and IAM, no rules, unaccountable professionals, and then unable to compete in this industry. Then they want you to vote YES on concessions to save jobs. Their motto is "lower the pay and benefits" but never hold us all accountable. That is Pathetic and Wrong!

You are the epitome of an AMFA leader. One who criticizes and complains about others, and dismisses their own SAME actions as justified. You responded to my first several posts with threats and name calling and even reduced yourself to trying to hit me with religious connotations. You created a personal attack on me, and along with Ken Mac Tiernan and Buck, lambasted me for not identifying myself. Why do you need to know who I am? Is it so AA Pittbull can "meet me face to face" because he disagrees with my opinions?

For my part, I have slapped right back at all of you and have no worry about any face to face meeting. Hell, I'll even buy the first round. We have all been guilty to some degree. You point fingers but discount your own actions. Like a typical AMFA leader you hide behind words like Democracy, Solidarity, and Integrity, but never really demonstrate those values.

Democracy - Sometimes the majority is simply wrong. It takes a real leader to stand up to the membership and do what is right for a long term solution. With the AMFA total Democratic process, how can anyone ever stand against a bad decision?

Solidity - At times, solidarity means standing for other work groups within your company or industry. AMFA comes out attacking all the other work groups for various reasons, then complains when these other Unions do not support them in times of need. You mock the big unions and criticize them for not helping your cause.

Integrity - Being able to listen to opposite opinions without bias or attack. You may or may not agree, but to personally attack the other for expressing contrary views speaks volumes to your personal lack of integrity. AMFA has historically gone on the attack mode at the onslaught of every election. Like you, they begin each attempted raid with a host of negative press about the current union, then again like you, cry foul when their own weaknesses are pointed out. You and your fellow supporters created and posted several negative threads and comments about every "industrial union" yet when I or others point out the problems with AMFA, you call it a fear and smear campaign, then proclaim the author as a liar.

Your lack, or failure, of these all important traits do not go un-noticed. I say again, AMFA failed in part because of people like you. Under an AMFA system, the loudest and most arrogant take the leadership roles over the most reasonable and qualified.
The common denominator of the AMFA leadership seems to be one of anger at the establishment. Anger on it's own, however, is not a leadership skill. I followed this movement once, but will not do it again.