I'm ready to go AMFA

[Anomaly]

AMFAinMIAMI,
You need to understand. Our back and forth goes alot further back than you have been on here. The reason I say this is a while back both TWU and teamsters were claiming that AMFA has no money at local or National levels. We have proven them wrong. In the 25 plus years of teamster representation they had a measily 50K when we fired them in local 19. Our National level has funds that represents $75-$85 per member. The current teamster international level represents below $10 per member. Yea the teamsters are large, but the airline division is a very small piece of that pie, as well as the funds to support it. Huge difference on the split of union dues going to each local as compared to the teamsters international takes alot more. Be patient my friend. This will come up again hot and heavy when you guys get enough cards and file. That's when you will really start hearing all the BS from the other two unions. You may not want to hear or read this stuff, but some of your members need to hear it.

According to the Federal LM2 filings on the DOL web site, assets for Local 19 were the following.

01Feb2002 - $439,963
23Feb2002 - $251,993
07Apr2003 - $333,848
17Mar2004 -$473,315
01Apr2005 - $589,771
21Aug2006 - $589,160
29Mar2007 - $730,410
01apr2008 - $753,916
01Apr2009 - $902,760
31Mar2010 - $693,555
31Mar2011 - $370,225
30Mar2012 - $1,478,659

Speaking of BS, what year was it that Local 19 had "a measily 50K"???

It is all on line. Look it up yourself.

http://kcerds.dol-esa.gov/query/getOrgQry.do
http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/rrlo/lmrda.htm

 

[Anomaly]

Anomaly, swamt, seriously I have read some of the back and forth about how much money the union has or how long it took to get that amount.
If you think for a moment that we at AA are looking at replacing the TWU because how much a union has in total assets both of you are way off base.

The amt's at AA are just sick of the TWU plain and simple. If you both are AMT's its the unions money. DUES. how they use it depends on the membership or unless the union is corrupt. I was under the impression that we at AA are trying to bring a union which we feel will represent us. Seperate us from the ramp and stores, give us more say as to our future. We are all on the floor so talking about money that is for the accountants. If your turning a wrench not for you to worry about. Keep track of at local level but if you had the knowledge of finace you should be doing that rather than turning a wrench. Let get back on track here and figure out the best way for us at AA to come up with enough cards to file for a election. Which I hope will rid us here at AA of the TWU.

What happens at SWA is good for us to know because it shows us just how AMFA operates. Good or bad its info we can use, to show just how different the TWU/IAM/IBT are to a craft union. We all talk about how things should be, what we expect from the union. Its what we do each day we hit the floor or the line, the job we do. How we look out for the other memebers of our crews. The safe operation of the aircraft we maintain. Its time to change the I GOT MINE thinking. Time to vote out the TWU.

The heading on this thread is "I am ready to go amfa", not blow sunshine up my amfa loving butt.

There are views, and opposing views. Statements made, and facts checked. The very basic and simply truth is that it takes money, and lots of it to fight the corporations that are willing and ready to give away our jobs. Even if we could all suddenly agree, the amount of money allocated by third party vendors and corporations looking to keep our wages down is staggering. amfa simply can not, and will not fight this. As a former amfa member, this was my experience.

I GOT MINE is the official amfa slogan. Just ask any former ATA mechanic.

 

[WNMECH]

Here you go trying to make this all about IBT local finances.
You must work for the teamsters.
But I was at one if those union meetings when we were told we would not be shown the books.

That was back in 1998-1999 before they went into trusteeship.
After that it seems they started showing some on the books in their DOL filings.

I don't know if local 19 had $5 or $50,000 at that time. They claimed they had no money, and would not prove it.

I would like to see their books from 1998-2000.
Show us those and it will tell me if the IBT had money or the IBT lied to us at the time.
The filings for the years after trusteeship and the ones after we removed them were not in question.

Either way it proves nothing about us SWA mechanics or AMFA and has nothing to do with AA.

We voted them out because we did not trust them.

Sorry for letting this thread drift again, but this guy is clearly trying to call us liars now.

The teamsters local 19 in grapevine tx claimed to us that they had no money in the late 1990s.

Fact check that, I was there.

 

[TWU informer]

Here you go trying to make this all about IBT local finances.
You must work for the teamsters.
But I was at one if those union meetings when we were told we would not be shown the books.

That was back in 1998-1999 before they went into trusteeship.
After that it seems they started showing some on the books in their DOL filings.

I don't know if local 19 had $5 or $50,000 at that time. They claimed they had no money, and would not prove it.

I would like to see their books from 1998-2000.
Show us those and it will tell me if the IBT has money or the IBT lied to us at the time.

Either way it proves nothing about us SWA mechanics or AMFA and has nothing to do with AA.

We voted them out because we did not trust them.

When a paid organizer cannot defend the lies told at UAL, the lies being told here at AA, and the lies told to every IBT on a daily basis, then the paid organizer keeps the conversation away from those topics and issues.

It is much better to keep the conversation going about meaningless dribble as if cash buys superior representation or that a 1.4 million man mega-union will be better than a smaller independent, than to discuss the fact that industrial unionism has failed the mechanic and related of this industry for over 60 years.

Anomaly is nothing more than a paid stooge to defend the institution of industrial unionism, and the reason the dues money is the constant topic is because the dues money is all that matters to an industrial union. But we all know by now that is nothing more than false strength and that an industrial union with $100 billion would serve the members no better than a craft union with $1 million.

 

[1AA]

The heading on this thread is "I am ready to go amfa", not blow sunshine up my amfa loving butt.

There are views, and opposing views. Statements made, and facts checked. The very basic and simply truth is that it takes money, and lots of it to fight the corporations that are willing and ready to give away our jobs. Even if we could all suddenly agree, the amount of money allocated by third party vendors and corporations looking to keep our wages down is staggering. amfa simply can not, and will not fight this. As a former amfa member, this was my experience.

I GOT MINE is the official amfa slogan. Just ask any former ATA mechanic.

Your not convincing anybody on this board that AMFA is not the choice. After all the years of concessions and back door deals screwing over the members it is OVER. Post all the crap you want. Most if not all are fed up with the TWU. Time for a change. We will get away from the TWU once and for all. AMFA is the only choice. You know it and so does everybody else.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The heading on this thread is "I am ready to go amfa", not blow sunshine up my amfa loving butt.

There are views, and opposing views. Statements made, and facts checked. The very basic and simply truth is that it takes money, and lots of it to fight the corporations that are willing and ready to give away our jobs. Even if we could all suddenly agree, the amount of money allocated by third party vendors and corporations looking to keep our wages down is staggering. amfa simply can not, and will not fight this. As a former amfa member, this was my experience.

I GOT MINE is the official amfa slogan. Just ask any former ATA mechanic.

Anomaly since we all can check why don't you post some thing on the SWA part of this site ask the ATA guys if they feel that I GOT MINE IS AN AMFA thing and see what answers you get. We all can read as you get replys. I will wait to see your questions to the ATA/SWA amfa represented amts. Also the replys you get..

We are going to rid AA of the TWU.


Safety in the Air begins with Quality Maintenance on the Ground

That is an AMFA slogan..


The Yellow wings in the TWU Logo signify why they are going to be GONE.
NO FIGHT Just bend over and Take it.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The heading on this thread is "I am ready to go amfa", not blow sunshine up my amfa loving butt.

There are views, and opposing views. Statements made, and facts checked. The very basic and simply truth is that it takes money, and lots of it to fight the corporations that are willing and ready to give away our jobs. Even if we could all suddenly agree, the amount of money allocated by third party vendors and corporations looking to keep our wages down is staggering. amfa simply can not, and will not fight this. As a former amfa member, this was my experience.

I GOT MINE is the official amfa slogan. Just ask any former ATA mechanic.

Yea, just look at what all that teamster money was able to do at Horizon, not only did all that "teamster power" fail to stop the loss of 30%+ of the membership and heavy maintenance, they go and and agree in writing to never speak of it.

Or we could talk about how the DEN ibt local for UAL went insolvent.

Lots of money doesn't translate into a will to act.

 

[Anomaly]

Yea, just look at what all that teamster money was able to do at Horizon, not only did all that "teamster power" fail to stop the loss of 30%+ of the membership and heavy maintenance, they go and and agree in writing to never speak of it.

Or we could talk about how the DEN ibt local for UAL went insolvent.

Lots of money doesn't translate into a will to act.

Oh please...

Horizon had plans to outsource the C checks long before the Teamsters were voted in. In fact, I was told that some of the amfa reps even worked on the committees that were put together to send this work out. As for your spin that they would never speak of it, there are many times when an agreement is made in consideration for something else. The Teamsters publicly humiliated Alaska and Horizon during 2010. The amfa agreement that this outsourcing fell under not only had no protections for this, but also had no severance pay. The Teamsters were able to negotiate a voluntary reduction and early out program that amfa could not. Top pay for early out was $40K lump sum and for voluntary furlough was $26K. In exchange, according to page 97 of the current agreement I was able to obtain, the Teamsters agreed they will "not file any grievances related to any layoffs directly attributable to said subcontracting." Furthermore, the IBT agreed they "will not sponsor, participate in, or approve any public campaign directed solely at Horizon regarding the subject of outsourcing of the aircraft heavy check maintenance work that is the subject of this agreement." Simply put, the Teamsters were able to come to an agreement that satisfied the members. Why then, would there be a need to bring it up again? Why would you grieve something you just agreed to?

DEN, two locals merged. End of story. Hell, bring up Denver. This was the last amfa stronghold on the line at UAL, but even many of these DEN mechanics apparently are dropping off their amfa t-shirts at the IBT offices in a symbolic gesture that they no longer support the association. Once again.....amfa FAILED.

 

[TWU informer]

 

[Anomaly]

TWU Informer, since you are trying to reduced this site to spam, here is another good link

http://www.topix.com/forum/com/nwac/TNMG0MEU0187NUG73

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Oh please...

Horizon had plans to outsource the C checks long before the Teamsters were voted in. In fact, I was told that some of the amfa reps even worked on the committees that were put together to send this work out. As for your spin that they would never speak of it, there are many times when an agreement is made in consideration for something else. The Teamsters publicly humiliated Alaska and Horizon during 2010. The amfa agreement that this outsourcing fell under not only had no protections for this, but also had no severance pay. The Teamsters were able to negotiate a voluntary reduction and early out program that amfa could not. Top pay for early out was $40K lump sum and for voluntary furlough was $26K. In exchange, according to page 97 of the current agreement I was able to obtain, the Teamsters agreed they will "not file any grievances related to any layoffs directly attributable to said subcontracting." Furthermore, the IBT agreed they "will not sponsor, participate in, or approve any public campaign directed solely at Horizon regarding the subject of outsourcing of the aircraft heavy check maintenance work that is the subject of this agreement." Simply put, the Teamsters were able to come to an agreement that satisfied the members. Why then, would there be a need to bring it up again? Why would you grieve something you just agreed to?

DEN, two locals merged. End of story. Hell, bring up Denver. This was the last amfa stronghold on the line at UAL, but even many of these DEN mechanics apparently are dropping off their amfa t-shirts at the IBT offices in a symbolic gesture that they no longer support the association. Once again.....amfa FAILED.

Oh please indeed......

Now its "...Horizon had plans to outsource the C checks long before the Teamsters were voted in...."

Now its hearsay about phantom AMFA reps working on committees. That's certainly convenient, considering nothing was mentioned at ALL about it during the ibt snake oil campaign. The ibt sold themselves to Horizon on how they fought outsourcing .... and it was the ibt that FAILED first time at bat at a REGIONAL CARRIER.


Oh and by the way, your whole premise doesn't bare close examination.

Note the dates mentioned in this agreement(the same one you quoted from) on WHEN the ibt was notified.... August 2nd, 2010.

http://www.mechanicsforchange.com/files/fliers_23.pdf

So lets see, the ibt was certified on Horizon in ..... April of 2009.

http://teamsterssfo.com/items/horizon_mechanics.pdf

“ We’re excited to welcome Horizon mechanics and related into Local 986,” said Chris Griswold, Local 986 Secretary‐Treasurer. “We look forward to working with Horizon mechanics to negotiate a Teamster contract with strong anti‐outsourcing language. We want to secure job protections for all mechanics and related at
Horizon and we will provide them with excellent representation.”

Well lets see....

Job protections for all mechanics and related? FAIL! Horizon has lost over 30% of their membership under the teamsters

Strong anti‐outsourcing language? FAIL! Allowing the outsourcing of heavy maintenance then having your silence bought on the subject in trade for some severance ... the ibt got bought....and cheaply at that. Real "teamster power" there!

As for DEN, yeah they merged with Local 455, and you wish that was the end of the story, because you lack the integrity to admit Local 961 was in severe financial trouble which was the primary reason for the merger.

 

[Anomaly]

Oh please indeed......

Now its "...Horizon had plans to outsource the C checks long before the Teamsters were voted in...."

Now its hearsay about phantom AMFA reps working on committees. That's certainly convenient, considering nothing was mentioned at ALL about it during the ibt snake oil campaign. The ibt sold themselves to Horizon on how they fought outsourcing .... and it was the ibt that FAILED first time at bat at a REGIONAL CARRIER.


Oh and by the way, your whole premise doesn't bare close examination.

Note the dates mentioned in this agreement(the same one you quoted from) on WHEN the ibt was notified.... August 2nd, 2010.

http://www.mechanics...s/fliers_23.pdf

So lets see, the ibt was certified on Horizon in ..... April of 2009.

http://teamsterssfo....n_mechanics.pdf

“ We’re excited to welcome Horizon mechanics and related into Local 986,” said Chris Griswold, Local 986 Secretary‐Treasurer. “We look forward to working with Horizon mechanics to negotiate a Teamster contract with strong anti‐outsourcing language. We want to secure job protections for all mechanics and related at
Horizon and we will provide them with excellent representation.”

Well lets see....

Job protections for all mechanics and related? FAIL! Horizon has lost over 30% of their membership under the teamsters

Strong anti‐outsourcing language? FAIL! Allowing the outsourcing of heavy maintenance then having your silence bought on the subject in trade for some severance ... the ibt got bought....and cheaply at that. Real "teamster power" there!

As for DEN, yeah they merged with Local 455, and you wish that was the end of the story, because you lack the integrity to admit Local 961 was in severe financial trouble which was the primary reason for the merger.

And yet, how do you answer that the mechanics at QX knew all about the C checks way before it was announced to the IBT?

They were told about it long before the mechanics took over on an inter company web site called Celias Corner. There was special classifications created by amfa and some of these mechanics helped facilitate the outsourcing of the C checks.

You are trying to conclude that the agreement date was the same as the notifying date. QX had been looking at outsourcing maintenance for many years even before the IBT showed up. This is one of the reasons QX changed. They knew it could not be stopped, but wanted better than what amfa could offer. It was many of these junior mechanics that instigated the change to the IBT. These same ones who knew nothing could be done, but they would have a better start at something else with the IBT. They were right.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

And yet, how do you answer that the mechanics at QX knew all about the C checks way before it was announced to the IBT?

They were told about it long before the mechanics took over on an inter company web site called Celias Corner. There was special classifications created by amfa and some of these mechanics helped facilitate the outsourcing of the C checks.

You are trying to conclude that the agreement date was the same as the notifying date. QX had been looking at outsourcing maintenance for many years even before the IBT showed up. This is one of the reasons QX changed. They knew it could not be stopped, but wanted better than what amfa could offer. It was many of these junior mechanics that instigated the change to the IBT. These same ones who knew nothing could be done, but they would have a better start at something else with the IBT. They were right.

Spare me please!

Knew all about it according to who? Your QX mech one post wonder to this site? Sure...

I have to laugh that you'd even try to float this crap, really, and heres why - certainly you remember the ibt campaign at UAL, after United announced it was looking for a joint venture partner/buyer for the base the ibt organizing machine went into overdrive to use that as one excuse to change unions. We supposedly needed teamster power to defeat UALs evil outsourcing plot, hell they even had a rally on the steps of UAL city hall to denounce the idea, remember this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpJjwKgXre0

You honestly expect the readers here to believe that ibt knew about the companys outsourcing intentions, according to your phantom AMFA reps ... it was already in the works under before the ibt came on the property, and then IGNORED what would've arguably been one of there best weapons to use in that campaign and didn't use it?

No blitz campaign full of smear and fear about how AMFA couldn't stop Horizons plan but the ibt could? No rally on the steps of Portland city hall?

But they knew it started under AMFA.....sure.

 

[enough already]

TWU Informer, since you are trying to reduced this site to spam, here is another good link

http://www.topix.com/forum/com/nwac/TNMG0MEU0187NUG73

Speaking of spam...

 

[Anomaly]

Spare me please!

Knew all about it according to who? Your QX mech one post wonder to this site? Sure...

I have to laugh that you'd even try to float this crap, really, and heres why - certainly you remember the ibt campaign at UAL, after United announced it was looking for a joint venture partner/buyer for the base the ibt organizing machine went into overdrive to use that as one excuse to change unions. We supposedly needed teamster power to defeat UALs evil outsourcing plot, hell they even had a rally on the steps of UAL city hall to denounce the idea, remember this video?

You honestly expect the readers here to believe that ibt knew about the companys outsourcing intentions, according to your phantom AMFA reps ... it was already in the works under before the ibt came on the property, and then IGNORED what would've arguably been one of there best weapons to use in that campaign and didn't use it?

No blitz campaign full of smear and fear about how AMFA couldn't stop Horizons plan but the ibt could? No rally on the steps of Portland city hall?

But they knew it started under AMFA.....sure.

You are reaching. If you want to compare, why not compare with what happened to the Alaska mechanics. The association took over representation in 1998, and since that time Alaska has farmed out most of it's non line maintenance (further proving my notion that amfa will ignore all but line maintenance). In 2004 amfa stood by as Alaska closed the Oakland heavy maintenance facility. Before that they lost the Tire and break shop in Seattle. Since that time, they have lost the paint shop, the crew seat shop, the net shop, the recon shop, the composites shop, the wire shop, the APU shop and the sheet metal shop.

Alaska for some years has been chasing to get 10% return on investment capital and has been using maintenance reductions to help them get there. The most insulting outsourcing by Alaska had to be when they gave away some of the engine shop work. The engine rebuild was farmed out in 2008 and the former Alaska mechanics were forced out. But the work was NOT sent somewhere else. Engine shop employees stood by shocked as replacement workers were brought in to work along side the remaining amfa members. Talk about a slap in the face.

Horizon is wholly owned by Alaska, and now subject o the same 10% ROIC chase to the bottom. Horizon mechanics, as amfa members, saw what was happening to the mechanics of the parent company and knew what was in store for them. Way before the campaign for the IBT had even begun, QX managers were dropping hints to watch what was going on at Alaska as a sign of things to come.

It is no myth, and if you just compare what had happened to the mechanics of the company that owns Horizon, it is a very plausible conclusion that the Horizon mechanics must have known what was about to happen to them. This leads me to believe the statements by those QX members who say they knew about the outsourcing plans before the Teamsters were brought on.