IBEW Update

[Labor Dawg]

IAMSUXS The reality is that the AFL-CIO is made up of Union officials so they have forgotten where they come from also. They have an issue going on also. They can't come together to decide if they want to grow the rank and file or pour more money into politics. The only solution to this issue is to grow labor. The problem is that as long as Unions like the IAM's avaition division are ran the way they are,theywill continue to shrink. The AFL-CIO isn't set up for you and me it is set up more as a lobbing leadership for all labor. The problem with that is they spend more money then they can generate. We must grow the labor movement. The fact is that a union laborer makes on average $250.00 to $350.00 more a month than a nonunion employee.

 

[GoldenRam94]

Problem is the company and union are tighter than 'two coats of paint." But they are usually behind closed doors making love to each other and fancying one another.

The only time you see the IAM is when it comes around for elections, contract votes, raids. The IAm spends about as much time with fleet service as someone would with a $20 whore.

So who is the man and the woman in that relationship?

Canale? Parker? Arms? Chandlee? Flynn?

 

[lithuanian]

Moderator warning:
Email removed. Do you not understand what the notice at the bottom states ? One final time you are not permitted to post copies of email on this board. If it happens again you will get time off.

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[pjirish317]

The sky is falling....The sky is falling. Please that T/A was a joke. They will bring another joke for us to vote on before the arbitration decision is made. Just so they can toss that and profit sharing down the tubes. With little or no gain from the last one. It is the I AM MANAGEMENTS mentality, to lead the sheep tp slaughter for their 30 pieces of silver. Any T/A that gives back to the company or has outsource language in it should be a no vote from everybody! If they want to give us something reinstate the 1999 CBA. Then and only maybee then will it pass. Anything less is a slap in the face.

 

[pjirish317]

One reason Phoenix doesn't sign cards easily has to do with the fact the wages are so low many agents have other jobs as a main resource. The company here was built like that. 22plus years ago agents only made about 6.00 an hour. It's working for many part timers and flex workers that have not built their careers on this job. The card signers are the ones with all their eggs in the basket. Can't see getting much support for IAM nor IBEW unless we really have something solid to build on.
This is the latest response from Mr. Brickner. Just want to share both sides of the issue. We're not sure who we're for at this point. This was sent Friday, Nov.2 at about 5pm.

From Mr. Brickner.
I remain confident there will be further talks. The talks will lead to another tentative deal. And, hopefully, the members will ratify it. Our members, East and West, are losing money everyday that passes, so the anxiety is to be expected. The price of oil should also be creating some anxiety among airline employees. If it continues to rise there aren't going to be any profits to share in, and the failed deal will look even better in hindsight.
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Brickner Thomas
Sent: Fri Nov 02 20:02:53 2007
Subject: Update.

Dear Sir,
There is alot of anxiety lately. We sure could use a bit of help calming the nerves waiting for something to break. Any help or words of encouragement would be welcomed.

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Notice: This message is intended for the addressee only and may contain privileged and/or confidential information. Use or dissemination by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited.
____________________________________________________________

Deal for whom? The I AM MANAGEMENT? It sure was not for Fleet Service. Please, they are still trying to sell that POS T/A.

 

[freedom]

Regarding the IBEW, It is what it is Dog Wonder. Do you think everyone is non-reving around? Or do you think everyone is spending their own dime to fly around? Who's paying for the meeting ballrooms?

You see what you want to see.

They can pay for a meeting ball room , but they can’t pay for a website? What’s with all of the backdoor dealing here , if there IS an organizing campaign and the IBEW is helping or taking part in it they should just step out into the light and say “this is what’s going on “ .They either have an agreement between the other unions in their alliance and will honor their pledge or they won’t .If there is NO support being given by the IBEW then the people who are organizing it should just say so and state their intention that they are trying to get enough votes in the hopes that the IBEW will just take us . If the IAM is as decadent and corrupt as everyone says , lets start out with this new union on the right foot by doing things in an open and honest manner.

Also , while I don’t personally feel that the IBEW is going to be better than the IAM , I do appreciate all of the efforts of everyone out there collecting cards and spreading the word . It shows you care , and that’s important .

 

[perserverance]

'' The price of oil should also be creating some anxiety among airline employees. If it continues to rise there aren't going to be any profits to share in, and the failed deal will look even better in hindsight.''
Tom

C'mon, even now 2 months after the vote on the ''Transition Agreement'' was announced the
Canales and the Brickners of the world refuse to move forward. This is the IAM leadership once
again negotiating from the back seat. They are not looking for the best deal with this company for
this group. We, as previously mentioned are the guinnea pig for the rest of the groups on property.
Were the kid they push in the water to see if its' deep enough for everyone. Once we say its' OK
everyone else jumps in over us. This leadership is a embarassment.
On a side note, recently in Philadelphia a cop was shot in the head by a thug while off duty going
into a Dunkin Donuts. The cop later died at the hospital. The manhunt for the murderer is still on
going and a reward has been offered at $115,000 and climbing. One of the reasons I'm bringing
this up is because John Dougherty, the president of local 98 IBEW, donated $10,000 towards the
reward. These are the type of people I'd like to have representing me. Not the Canale's who called
us ''scabs'' for not honoring thier picket line back in 92' even though we were not represented.
Then court us to vote in his IAM and call us ''scabs''. Our AGC calling us ''scabs'',
this is not someone I believe is trying his best to negotiate for us.

Thanks

 

[JoeDirt]

pjirish
If they bring back another agreement I think we will be lucky if we even get to vote. Its my understanding if there is no extention they can impose it on us without a vote.

 

[Harry Callahan]

That's mine also.

 

[The Bagfather]

Hello Lith, The chances of geting an equitable contract without the threat of a
strike is nil. Another contract will probably come out soon. It may take into account
how the arbitration briefings look. In other words the IAM and the compony will
see how they stand and act accordingly. But without the threat of a strike and your
own union acting in its own interests what are the chances for a fair and equitable
contract. Zip nada no way nothing. For one thing it will never come close to the
real value of the COC NO MATTER WHAT THAT VALUE ACTUALLY IS. AGAIN.. NO
MATTER WHAT THAT VALUE ACUALLY IS! One reason. They are unwilling to fight.
They might have to pay a lawyer a couple million to fight for payment of a judgement.
And that cost would come out of the 40 plus million they've got from us and that's
just since the merger

Here's what the next offer (if they dont just impose it on us) A Few more tidbits here
and there; better sick leave more vacation etc. But here's the kicker: some money
will be added to overall pay but the middle guys will lose so that the senior guys will
gain. Only enough juggling to produce a TA what will be supported by the slimmest
possible margin. Both the company and the IAM learned something about the demografics
in the last vote. And the west will feel betrayed by the east. The company and the IAM
could care less about this outcome if they get what they want.

Meanwhile what happened to section 6 negotiations for the west? I asked one AGC what
was there position as to the value of it and was there a timetable or had there been
any movement on it and he replied: "That had not been considered" I have to give him
credit for even mentioning it , but that would be earned only if this union was as
tight lipped and secretive and as self-serving as it is.

Now I have a question which was addressed before but I don't remember the answer. And
that is what is the disposition the wests dues since the merger. Does the IAM have
these funds available or are they frozen in some account awaiting a joint agreement? Only
The IAM can answer this and it appears they are not willing to give out the info.

Everyday that goes by I grow more convinced that the IAM has to go. Thanks BF

 

[JoeDirt]

Hey Bagfather

Perserverance answered this about the dues. It is on thread "IBEW update for the week of October 21". Page 3, post 52.

 

[perserverance]

''Now I have a question which was addressed before but I don't remember the answer. And
that is what is the disposition the wests dues since the merger. Does the IAM have
these funds available or are they frozen in some account awaiting a joint agreement? Only
The IAM can answer this and it appears they are not willing to give out the info.''

BF-
The IAM does not currently have access to the dues the West has paid since 05'.
They are currently being held ,to they, the West, fall under agreement. If this past TA
was voted in the IAM would have recieved the dues being held.
BF, that is why I believe the IAM was pushing so hard to get this through. The company
wanted, mind you I said wanted not needed, the extension and the IAM wanted, not needed,
the dues. Who was looking out for us.
I do not know what would happen to the dues if the IAM was voted out, but I do know
the IBEW would not want them or be entitled to them. The dues would either be returned to the
employee's or the IAM could ask for them through some sort of court order, if they have a
case to seek them.

Thanks

 

[freedom]

Here's what the next offer (if they dont just impose it on us) A Few more tidbits here
and there; better sick leave more vacation etc. But here's the kicker: some money
will be added to overall pay but the middle guys will lose so that the senior guys will
gain. Only enough juggling to produce a TA what will be supported by the slimmest
possible margin. Both the company and the IAM learned something about the demografics
in the last vote. And the west will feel betrayed by the east. The company and the IAM
could care less about this outcome if they get what they want.

That sounds just fine to me , after all this IS a transitional agreement , why are we treating it like it’s going to be a 5 year contract when it shouldn’t be . We should push for what gains we can get NOW in the short term . As this is NOT normal negotiating we don’t and shouldn’t have to sign a long term contract , but I see nothing wrong with a 2 or even 3 year agreement if it provides wage increases ,job protections and sick pay ….


Each and every day that passes is another day we stay impoverished when we need not be so . The sooner we get a new contract the sooner we can begin to raise our standards of living , of course I’m not saying we should take whatever the company/IAM offers us , but we should also be realistic as to the climate of this industry and we should be mindful to have realistic views on any outcome of negotiating . I don’t want to wait through five years of talks just so we can go back to 1999 wages of the east .The longer this drags on the worse we in the west and class two stations are going to be hurting .If that last contract had come with regular sick days ,uniform allotment and better job protections it would have passed .I don’t think these three remaining obstacles will be that hard to overcome the problem is just getting back to the table . I think the iam HAD to go all the way with arbitration , there was no choice but to send it to the courts , after it gets rejected we can get back to the talks , and hopefully sometime in the middle of next year will be on a new contract !!

 

[Dog Wonder]

How long do you think a new contract will drag out if, in the very unkiley event The IBEW stops treating the 'ibew committee' like the ugly cousin they have been dating on the sly?

And if they actually join in this charade you don't end up with no representation and the IBEW is the bargaining group?

If history with this company is a guide, 2 or 3 years minimum.

 

[The Bagfather]

That sounds just fine to me , after all this IS a transitional agreement , why are we treating it like it’s going to be a 5 year contract when it shouldn’t be . We should push for what gains we can get NOW in the short term . As this is NOT normal negotiating we don’t and shouldn’t have to sign a long term contract , but I see nothing wrong with a 2 or even 3 year agreement if it provides wage increases ,job protections and sick pay ….
Each and every day that passes is another day we stay impoverished when we need not be so . The sooner we get a new contract the sooner we can begin to raise our standards of living , of course I’m not saying we should take whatever the company/IAM offers us , but we should also be realistic as to the climate of this industry and we should be mindful to have realistic views on any outcome of negotiating . I don’t want to wait through five years of talks just so we can go back to 1999 wages of the east .The longer this drags on the worse we in the west and class two stations are going to be hurting .If that last contract had come with regular sick days ,uniform allotment and better job protections it would have passed .I don’t think these three remaining obstacles will be that hard to overcome the problem is just getting back to the table . I think the iam HAD to go all the way with arbitration , there was no choice but to send it to the courts , after it gets rejected we can get back to the talks , and hopefully sometime in the middle of next year will be on a new contract !!

Freedom; I think you've spoken well for a lot of people. Especially in PHX and LAS. But one
of the catches was that is was a 4 year agreement with yearly increases under inflation. I
would probably go for a 2 year TA myself. But that won't happen.

From your previous posts I would say we disagree on the value of the COC. I have learned
a lot about this stuff from a senior east guy. Its very interesting to hear the east side of the
story first hand. BTW the mechanics told their union to forget a TA if it signed away the COC

And it looks like from perseverances post that what I suspected was correct ,that the union
was motivated to get a TA thru to access the west dues.

Basically I think we desearve way more than that TA. Way more. There are serious
back pay issues for both the east and west . Ultimately its just sad the way it happened.
So I dont really have anything to say to make you feal good about it. Other than to blame
both the company and the IAM. And especially in the west the IAM for neglecting our TWU
contract. But there was nothing in it for them.

Anyway thanks for your comments and good luck with your elections. BF