Labor Dawg
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Goldenram I would still like to have that list of people from the IBEW who want to be on the $100,000 list.
IBEW Update
- Thread starter Tim Nelson
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Tim Nelson
Veteran
GoldenRam94,
I got a problem with underfunding. The underfunding is now actually at $300 million as listed by the IAM pension fund with its current information [now 97% of %9billion]. One individual resorted to phone calls and the individual told him it was funded 100%. The IAM's own numbers on filed forms are what everyone should go by. The IAm always sez its overfunded because they put the current assets over pension benfits payable. This is IAM spin as funding is always measured on the governmental forms as assets over liabilities. The IAm pension, by it's own website's admission, is now $300 millino underfunded. I gotta problem with that. If you think it is 'no big thing' then you are being less than reasonable. What's more troubling is that ONLY 36% of the participants are contributing!!! This plan is 50 years old and the US AIRWAYS workers are fronting the bill for the majority who are active participants but not contributing participants, according to the IAM's 550 governmental forms.
You say, 'fund what you need'???? Rubbish, most plans are overfunded, the IAM's plan is one of 16 union plans that are 'in the red'. The IBEW's pension plan is overfunded by 1.7 BILLION DOLLARS. And more importantly, it has twice the amount of participants [429,000] and 78% of them are active contributors. This is the reverse of the underfunded IAM pension fund.
To say it doesnt matter if a fund is a couple hundred million underfunded does serious harm to justice and doesn't recognize the current problems along with the further problems have having a small percentage of contributing participants. This is the information that the IAM does not want you to see AND it's the sole reason why the IAM has to grow the fund.
At any rate, the IAM has set up its pension and the minimal decert risk as the two icons of why workers should keep them. The IBEW organizing drive believes once the truth is out about the IAM pension fund and its future [separate from IAM spin] that workers will see it as the liability it is. and the future risks associated with it. We are in process of addressing both issues and getting the workers the independent facts so they can draw their own conclusions.
regards,
Labor Dawg
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Underfunding may not be a big deal to some of you , but that is a snowball that could roll into something they can't handle much like USAirways allowed to happen. We all know what happened there! The IAM can't run their pensions like the companies that they take the pensions from. Don't be blind sided by irresponsible people that claim to have the only fully funded pension. If they continue at the rate they have, how will that pension fund look in 15-20 years when the majority of us retire from USAirways? They tout a pension fund that is a liability to them. If it gets to a certian point they will have to make a decision and believe me it won't be pretty. They will do one of two things they will have to raise dues and earmark a percentage to the pension or they will defer it to the PBGC board. That is why the IBEW pension is so solvent they actually have been proactive in their pension. They already put a percentageof their dues in so they can ensure it is overfunded. It's a matter of dollars and cents. Don't let those facts get in the way!!!!!!!!
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Redeye,
When discussing the IAM pension and its severe underfunding in the hundreds of millions, a breakroom warrier said the other day that the IAM AGC told him the fund was actually $3 billion overfunded. The trouble was that many in the breakroom believed it and didn't ask for documentation. So i've heard the $3 billion before. Could you check to see if there is any information that perhaps has been left out of the governmental forms? As a plan participant I would feel much more comfortable if $3 billion is in fact true.
I've followed the links 700 provided from the IAM pension web site and they are supposedly 'current'. The only thing I found is that the fund is now 300 million in the red and has lost another $100 million underfunding. Until I can substantiate the rumor that the IAM is overfunded by $3 billion dollars, I will have to go with the governmentally required forms which are filled out by "Top People". I'm not sure I want to believe verbal overfunding answers when my future is important to me.
The simple facts are that on all governmental forms that are made public, the IAM pension is underfunded by hundreds of millions of dollars. This is separate from opinion and is governmental form fact. No phone calls need to be made.
OTOH, this thread is about the IBEW and the IBEW's pension fund is OVERFUNDED by 1.7 BILLION dollars! This is not opinion and such info is found on the latest form 550 which is public information.
Also, 77% of its participants are active contributors. The IAM Pension fund is concerning because the IAM pension trustees must grow the fund so the 67% participants who are NOT active contributors continue to secure their vested benefits. Kinda like social security.
Please let me know if you can find the overfunding info. I really hope you can find it!
Until then, i'll have to believe the documents of the top 22 multi employer plans and lump the IAM's into one of the most underfunded multi-employer plans known. It's in the documents and it is NOT opinion.
regards,
zone2
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We are not talking cents. 3% is alot when you are talking BILLIONS.
Dog Wonder
Veteran
I can only speak for myself. I would work within the union for change.
Decertification is not an option.
zone2
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Would you, if 13 years you lose more than you gain?
Tim Nelson
Veteran
What would be a solution to working within? My conclusion is that the District officers can't be changed since this is a United Airline dominated airline and would require Aloha, hawaiin, Phillipine, workers to vote out your AGC's. My conclusion is based on several solid workers trying to 'change from within'.
Even at the Local level, this district has eliminated democratic processes.
Consider PIT
For instance, in PIT, the local chairman gets voted out. Then after he loses the vote, he gets appointed to the new AGC $100,000 club membership and serves other stations. Then he gets put back in PIT as their AGC and is there now. I could mention other scenerios where it appears Canale actually has a mentality to 'make people pay for not agreeing with me'.
Consider PHL
Now it's happening in PHL. The 1776 Prez isn't getting paid by the Local, is elected, and has full support of his station. He stands up for his right to organize and also to get Canale's attention. Canale turns a deaf ear, and my understanding is he has now circumvented the local procedure of charges and trials and instead reverted to getting the IAM 1776 prez out of office through the INTL support.
Consider CLT
In CLT, they tried to change within and the DL violated its own bylaws and the DOL ruled against them.
Heck, even myself. I always got elected by my consitutents and even was elected to represent 6,000 members at United and asked to deliver a bylaw change at the district convention. Shortly after presenting a change that would have limited AGC wages, I was brought up on charges and stripped of my elected position.
And then you have the masses. They vote overwhelmingly and present a mandate to Hemmingway that a contract was unfair and inequitable. Yet, the IAM sides with hemmingway and refuses to recognize the mandate by saying it was a fair contract, and that the workers just voted for the COC.
While it sounds real good to say change from within, this is a beaten down path and at the end of it is a stone wall.
There is 'good reason' why there is a raid right now.
regards,
Dog Wonder
Veteran
Bitterness?
zone2
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13 years........would you?
Hadenough
Senior
Bitter does not even come close to how I feel. I have been back sliding for 13 years now and I have had enough.
JoeDirt
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Question?
Actually a couple of questions.
As of Oct. 1 2007 the NMB allows electronic voting. Correct?
The voting includes telephone and internet. Correct?
How is this accomplished? Does anybody have any details or better yet a link where this can be found?
What I really need to know is if/when this comes to a vote could we hand someone at work a phone or computer and encourage them to vote. Vote their choice but make sure people have every opportunity to vote. If this is possible then the chances of decertification is slim to none.
Actually a couple of questions.
As of Oct. 1 2007 the NMB allows electronic voting. Correct?
The voting includes telephone and internet. Correct?
How is this accomplished? Does anybody have any details or better yet a link where this can be found?
What I really need to know is if/when this comes to a vote could we hand someone at work a phone or computer and encourage them to vote. Vote their choice but make sure people have every opportunity to vote. If this is possible then the chances of decertification is slim to none.
redeye
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D W,
With sincere interest, what is your history as far as union activism
within your own station, and how have you been received within
your workgroup?
I am asking to get a better understanding of your perspective.
Thanks,
redeye
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Hey Joe!
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/faqs-ola.html
NMB Frequently Asked Questions
Questions 21 - 37
VOTING
21. Q: How are NMB representation elections conducted?
A: Most elections are conducted by Telephone Electronic Voting (TEV). Approximately three weeks prior to the tally, each voter is mailed Voting Instructions explaining how to vote if the voter wants to be represented. In a standard TEV election, employees who want to vote for representation call in to cast their vote. The votes are tallied electronically. The results of the tally are provided to the organization(s) and the carrier in writing.
22. Q: Is telephone voting confidential?
A: Yes. All NMB voting is by secret ballot. Each voter is assigned a confidential, random, six-digit Voter Identification Number (VIN), and a confidential, random, four-digit Personal Identification Number (PIN). The VIN and the PIN numbers are known only to the voter and the NMB. Use of another voter's VIN and/or PIN is prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 1001.
The NMB does not disclose the ballot choice of any voter.
23. Q: How is the winner of an election determined?
A: If a majority of eligible voters in the craft or class vote for representation, then the organization that receives the majority of the votes cast "wins" the election.
24. Q: Is the NMB eliminating mail ballots?
A: No. In general, the NMB will be conducting elections using TEV. The Board may use other appropriate methods, including mail ballots, as it is permitted under Section 2, Ninth.
25. Q: When was TEV implemented?
A: TEV was implemented on September 30, 2002.
26. Q: What if there is a computer failure?
A: There are three backup systems. If one system fails, another system would pick up. It is a seamless process ensuring that any system failure will not affect a voter's ability to vote.
27. Q: How does the system prevent groups of voters from getting together for voting parties?
A: The system has the capability to trace the phone numbers used to cast votes. Therefore, the TEV system improves the Board's ability to investigate allegations of voting parties.
28. Q: How do voters vote no?
A: They do not call the TEV telephone number or they vote for "no representation" when the "write-in" portion of the ballot is prompted.
29. Q: Can voters still "write-in" candidates?
A: Yes. They can "speak-in" at the prompt to vote for "any other organization or individual." Their selection will be transcribed and recorded on the Report of Election results. In order to maintain the confidentiality of the voting process, participants will not be able to listen to these recordings at the vote count.
30. Q: What prevents voters from voting multiple times?
A: It is not possible to vote multiple times. The system has a "maximum vote count" which is set to one for each eligible voter.
31. Q: How are eligibility rulings and status changes handled under TEV?
A: The same as under the mail ballot system. Electronic removal and addition of voters would be substituted for the current manual process.
32. Q: What records regarding the TEV will the parties have access to?
A: The participants will have access to information available to them under the Freedom of Information Act and the Privacy Act.
33. Q: What is the process for requesting duplicate telephone voting instructions?
A: The process for requesting duplicate telephone voting instructions under the TEV system will be set forth in instructions sent to each voter as well as posted at each base. The voter must request duplicate telephone voting instructions in writing and no group requests will be honored.
34. Q: Can voters change their votes?
A: Yes and no. While a voter is in the TEV system, he/she will be prompted to confirm his/her choices and can make changes accordingly. Once the voter hangs up and the ballot is successfully cast, the voter can not call again and "change" the vote. The system will recognize this as an attempt to vote more than once.
35. Q: What do voters do if they are experiencing problems voting?
A: If a voter experiences problems, he/she should try again. If that fails, the voter should contact the NMB at the number provided on the Notice of Election/Telephone Voting Instructions and an OLA staff member will assist them.
36. Q: Do voters need any special equipment to participate in TEV?
A: Voters need access to a touch tone phone in order to vote. Voters will not be able to vote using rotary dial or pulse phones.
Voters may use the NMB's TTY communications system as explained in the Instructions. When the voter uses the TTY communications system, the voter must identify himself or herself with the correct PIN and VIN. NMB election officials will assist the voter as necessary.
37. Q: Is telephone voting secure?
A: Yes. The TEV process requires a VIN and a PIN to access the system. The use of VIN/PIN combinations enhances the integrity of the TEV process. In addition, the TEV system will lock a user out after repeated incorrect VIN/PIN entries. This lockout prevents hackers from "programmatically" discovering user VIN/PIN combinations. The TEV process also uses encrypted Internet communications to prevent third parties from intercepting and altering votes. The TEV process utilizes a network firewall and an intrusion detection system to prevent unauthorized access to the system.
The election is monitored for patterns of suspicious activity.
Election results cannot be viewed until the election is closed and the tally conducted, thus eliminating the possibility of manipulation.
Further information on the security and integrity of telephone voting can be found at http://www.ballotpoint.com/security.htm
Hope this helps you!
BTW, here's another rule!!!
When you are sleeping in the break room, always wear sunglasses and when awoken always say "AMEN"
Tim Nelson
Veteran
I think it's a hatred for the profanities of injustice. Hate for such things is a good thing. The IAM has been that vehicle that ushers in injustice and oppresses the masses on US AIR fleet property.
regards,
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