IAM - TWU should split work force

[700UW]

Fact 1: AMFA sent a letter to NW telling the company to take more from the other unionized groups and not M&R.

Fact 2: AMFA requested support from the IAM in a form of a letter, the IAM responded to AMFA and Delle, and AMFA did not reply to the letter nor do any of the conditions set forth in the letter from Roach to Delle.

Plus someone had to know what NW was up to, they did it for a year and half before the strike, I understand why AMFA struck, but they were not prepared, no strike fund for the members and begged other unions for cash, and I know the UAW stepped up big time.

 

[swamt]

Travis claims to be a US A&P, former HP.

Also, yes I am not a mechanic, worked along side them for over 20 years, just because I dont turn a wrench, doesnt mean I am not capable of understanding the issues, I have negotiated for and represented Mechanics, just like stock clerks and utility.

Let me ask you this and answer it honestly, after the fiasco at NW, do you really think mechanics trust AMFA, they had no strike fund, alienated themselves from the rest of labor, even their own sister union the PFAA didnt honor their picket lines.

NW outsmarted them at every step of the way, with the FAA turning a blind eye to what was going on there.

There are numerous X-NWA mechanics at SWA now. All the ones I have talked to about the NWA/AMFA strike at NWA had no hard feelings at AMFA. Were glad AMFA represented the SWA mechs and would vote for AMFA again if they have too. Lineguy has posted numerous times that he too would go with AMFA all over again, if he had to, as he is non-union for now and doesn't mind it at all. He was part of the NWA/AMFA strike. You see 700, AMFA has the balls to strike, not coward down and do "behind close door" deals agreeing to concessions after concessions like the TWU and IAM has done for decades. We all know what the TWU/IAM would have done, just like they always have, cave and give from pay to jobs. Actions speaks for themselves. AMFA showed action not lip service.

 

[700UW]

Balls to strike?

AMFA was forced out at NW, and the strike failed.

And the IAM struck many carriers way before AMFA ever did, TWA, United, Eastern, US Air (October of 1992) and other carriers.

AMFA got outsmarted, plain and simple. And didnt support their members, and walked away from them after the merger, just like they did to Ozark and Trump Shuttle, heck the Shuttle employees had to hire their own lawyer cause AMFA wouldnt help them.

 

[swamt]

Balls to strike?

AMFA was forced out at NW, and the strike failed.

And the IAM struck many carriers way before AMFA ever did, TWA, United, Eastern, US Air (October of 1992) and other carriers.

AMFA got outsmarted, plain and simple. And didnt support their members, and walked away from them after the merger, just like they did to Ozark and Trump Shuttle, heck the Shuttle employees had to hire their own lawyer cause AMFA wouldnt help them.

Absolutely balls to strike. They voted to strike and struck. Not caved to the demands and the 53% or 59% reduction in mechanics like the TWU and IAM has. Never said the IAM has never struck, but when was the last time they did, for airline mechanics? I am not saying AMFA was perfect, as I have always said their biggest mistake was waiting too long after the company started training scabs. Yes AMFA could have agreed to all the concessions leaving about 40-45% of the membership employed at least until the merger then more reductions, but the membership voted to strike to stand behind their brothers and sisters who would have been without a job. Yes that is balls!!!

 

[Vortilon]

Balls to strike?

AMFA was forced out at NW, and the strike failed.

And the IAM struck many carriers way before AMFA ever did, TWA, United, Eastern, US Air (October of 1992) and other carriers.

AMFA got outsmarted, plain and simple. And didnt support their members, and walked away from them after the merger, just like they did to Ozark and Trump Shuttle, heck the Shuttle employees had to hire their own lawyer cause AMFA wouldnt help them.

You're funny, fact of the matter was NWA never fully recovered after the AMFA strike. The scabs NWA hired were the absolute dregs of the industry. I had the misfortune of speaking with some of them, at least the ones that could speak English. The AMTs that decided to stay, knew they had just made a deal with the devil. Purely for survival, and will always hate the company for what they did to them. NWAs tech writers were forced to quite literally dumb down the maintenance manuals - so these scabs could understand them. What was once a pretty good group of AMTs that put out a good product was decimated, and reduced to shite in a matter of months. You speak of AMFA not representing the AMTs from NWA after the Delta merge. Considering the size of the two work groups, the NWA guys were outnumbered by no small margin. Couple that with the fact that oddly enough Delta treats their AMTs with respect, and has always paid them a decent wage - just to keep the unions out - no big surprise the AMFA faded away there - the writing was on the wall.

 

[Rogallo]

Let me ask you this and answer it honestly, after the fiasco at NW, do you really think mechanics trust AMFA, they had no strike fund, alienated themselves from the rest of labor, even their own sister union the PFAA didnt honor their picket lines.

That will be the $20,000 question. Who will they trust when it gets right down to it. AMFA for what they did? TWU for what they are doing now? IBT and IAM, not in the picture!!

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Unionism as a whole failed in the NWA strike.

I'm sitting here reading these ridiculous excuses/accusations about AMFA, and I'm wondering, where did some of you learn about unionism?

If the unions at NWA - not just the IAM- but ALPA, PFAA, etc had not crossed AMFAs line, it would've been a short strike. AND ALL UNIONS AT NWA WOULD'VE BEEN STRONGER FOR IT.

Plain and simple - YOU DO NOT CROSS A PICKET LINE!

I cannot stand the teamsters as many of you here well know, but if they put up a picket line - I WILL NOT CROSS IT.

As long as there are unions, there will be union politics, of that I have no doubt. When union politics are placed above unionism itself we only further the causes of the corporations we struggle against.

JMHO

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Unionism as a whole failed in the NWA strike.

I'm sitting here reading these ridiculous excuses/accusations about AMFA, and I'm wondering, where did some of you learn about unionism?

If the unions at NWA - not just the IAM- but ALPA, PFAA, etc had not crossed AMFAs line, it would've been a short strike. AND ALL UNIONS AT NWA WOULD'VE BEEN STRONGER FOR IT.

Plain and simple - YOU DO NOT CROSS A PICKET LINE!

I cannot stand the teamsters as many of you here well know, but if they put up a picket line - I WILL NOT CROSS IT.

As long as there are unions, there will be union politics, of that I have no doubt. When union politics are placed above unionism itself we only further the causes of the corporations we struggle against.

JMHO

Very good post. I agree 100%. Unionism failed. Non of the industrial unions wanted AMFA to succeed.

 

[xUT]

Fact 1: AMFA sent a letter to NW telling the company to take more from the other unionized groups and not M&R.

Fact 2: AMFA requested support from the IAM in a form of a letter, the IAM responded to AMFA and Delle, and AMFA did not reply to the letter nor do any of the conditions set forth in the letter from Roach to Delle.

Plus someone had to know what NW was up to, they did it for a year and half before the strike, I understand why AMFA struck, but they were not prepared, no strike fund for the members and begged other unions for cash, and I know the UAW stepped up big time.

I know you have both letters so why not post them?

AMFA 'NEVER' begged other unions for cash, UAW stepped up because it understood unionism.
An Injury to ONE is an Injury to all!
I know for a fact that 'ALL' AMFA locals and individual members (such as myself) donated time, effort and 'CASH' in support of the NWA strike.

Yes, some of us know/remember the hatred the iam had when AMFA was voted in at NWA.
Whatever happened to amfanuts.com?
Died after the strike.

Why did the IAM do pushbacks at stations not in their contract after the strike?
IAM is a scab union, and at one post, you apologized as such.

Unionism had their nuts busted when 'few' supported the PATCO strike.

Did you know that Ronnie had Military Air Traffic Controllers assigned to civilian airports?
I was at Mother Rucker supporting the ATC maintenance operations when more than half of our qualified controllers were sent to civilian airports.

What did Onions do?
NAFT!
Did they picket airports?
NO
Did they stop flying?
NO
The weakness of the 'unions' were exposed, and corporations learned the weakness of 'Union Solidarity'!

There is no union solidarity unless it's 'your union'....
What a crock!

When Onions started accepting 'have to cross picket lines and no sympathy strikes' in their contracts for a few pennies is insanity.

They opened that 'Pandora's Box' and once it's opened, it's a real #### to close.

Greedy, short sighted unions allowed this as they didn't have the tenacity to stand on their own two feet!

They manipulated their membership that trusted their stewardship as 'true unionists' that will protect union workers (not just their own short sighted/myopic membership).

People are still looking for union leadership, and sadly, you are not one of them.

Enough of my rant!

B) xUT

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Thank you again for your support xUT. You and the UAW gave us a lot of hope while the IAM was pounding us in the ass.

 

[737823]

I know you have both letters so why not post them?

AMFA letter to IAM:http://www.goiam.org...f?LangType=1033

(Scab) Roach's response: http://www.goiam.org...mine.8.9.05.pdf

And if the UAW was so great and willing to help AMTs why don't they organize you guys instead of going between college campuses organizing admin workers and teaching fellows? Despite the resurgence in the domestic auto industry UAW membership is still down sharply and their efforts to organize non-union workers at the southern plants for the foreigns has been remarkably unsuccessful.

Josh

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I know you have both letters so why not post them?

AMFA 'NEVER' begged other unions for cash, UAW stepped up because it understood unionism.
An Injury to ONE is an Injury to all!
I know for a fact that 'ALL' AMFA locals and individual members (such as myself) donated time, effort and 'CASH' in support of the NWA strike.

Yes, some of us know/remember the hatred the iam had when AMFA was voted in at NWA.
Whatever happened to amfanuts.com?
Died after the strike.

Why did the IAM do pushbacks at stations not in their contract after the strike?
IAM is a scab union, and at one post, you apologized as such.

Unionism had their nuts busted when 'few' supported the PATCO strike.

Did you know that Ronnie had Military Air Traffic Controllers assigned to civilian airports?
I was at Mother Rucker supporting the ATC maintenance operations when more than half of our qualified controllers were sent to civilian airports.

What did Onions do?
NAFT!
Did they picket airports?
NO
Did they stop flying?
NO
The weakness of the 'unions' were exposed, and corporations learned the weakness of 'Union Solidarity'!

There is no union solidarity unless it's 'your union'....
What a crock!

When Onions started accepting 'have to cross picket lines and no sympathy strikes' in their contracts for a few pennies is insanity.

They opened that 'Pandora's Box' and once it's opened, it's a real #### to close.

Greedy, short sighted unions allowed this as they didn't have the tenacity to stand on their own two feet!

They manipulated their membership that trusted their stewardship as 'true unionists' that will protect union workers (not just their own short sighted/myopic membership).

People are still looking for union leadership, and sadly, you are not one of them.

Enough of my rant!

B) xUT

You make a very good point. We should never cross another union's picket lines. But we do. Remember the flight attendant strike? How many pilots refused to cross? Nada. That's how many. All of them crossed and flew airplanes with scab FAs from AA management. But they are not the only ones. All of us are guilty and must start supporting each other or big business will run us over.

 

[xUT]

AMFA letter to IAM:http://www.goiam.org...f?LangType=1033

(Scab) Roach's response: http://www.goiam.org...mine.8.9.05.pdf

And if the UAW was so great and willing to help AMTs why don't they organize you guys instead of going between college campuses organizing admin workers and teaching fellows? Despite the resurgence in the domestic auto industry UAW membership is still down sharply and their efforts to organize non-union workers at the southern plants for the foreigns has been remarkably unsuccessful.

Josh

Thanks for the links Josh,
B) xUT

 

[Kev3188]

...as I have always said their biggest mistake was waiting too long after the company started training scabs.

We don't usually agree on much, but on this we do. I also think they sold themselves short when it came to the DLH facility, but I think I'm alone in that...

You're funny, fact of the matter was NWA never fully recovered after the AMFA strike. The scabs NWA hired were the absolute dregs of the industry. I had the misfortune of speaking with some of them, at least the ones that could speak English. The AMTs that decided to stay, knew they had just made a deal with the devil. Purely for survival, and will always hate the company for what they did to them. NWAs tech writers were forced to quite literally dumb down the maintenance manuals - so these scabs could understand them. What was once a pretty good group of AMTs that put out a good product was decimated, and reduced to shite in a matter of months. You speak of AMFA not representing the AMTs from NWA after the Delta merge. Considering the size of the two work groups, the NWA guys were outnumbered by no small margin. Couple that with the fact that oddly enough Delta treats their AMTs with respect, and has always paid them a decent wage - just to keep the unions out - no big surprise the AMFA faded away there - the writing was on the wall.

You have no idea how accurate that all is... We went from a place where mechanicals & air returns were truly a rare deal to one where they occurred daily (still do, to be honest). Remember the "pool" on the NW board?

...And yeah, if anyone hasn't seen the terms imposed on AMFA in 12/05, go check it out. It's an HR reps wet dream. NO ONE in their right mind would've voted for that over what DL was offering at the time. Much better to ride out the waiting period and try again...

Unionism as a whole failed in the NWA strike.

Yep...

We (collectively) had a short memory. Wasn't all that long before this that we all took a "vacation" to stan with the pilots...

Very good post. I agree 100%. Unionism failed. Non of the industrial unions wanted AMFA to succeed.

Correction: None of the union *leadership* wanted it. The feeling of the rank and file wasn't as black and white as you think.

Yes, some of us know/remember the hatred the iam had when AMFA was voted in at NWA.
Whatever happened to amfanuts.com?
Died after the strike.

To be fair, I remember IAM stickers in urinals, too...

Amfanuts was ridiculous. BTW, whatever happened to "the_Mechanic.com?"

Why did the IAM do pushbacks at stations not in their contract after the strike?

Some people didn't know any better, some people wanted to "show" the AMT's (for lack of a better term), and some people are just enamored with pushing around big shiny jets... What can I say?

When Onions started accepting 'have to cross picket lines and no sympathy strikes' in their contracts for a few pennies is insanity.

They opened that 'Pandora's Box' and once it's opened, it's a real #### to close.

Greedy, short sighted unions allowed this as they didn't have the tenacity to stand on their own two feet!

They manipulated their membership that trusted their stewardship as 'true unionists' that will protect union workers (not just their own short sighted/myopic membership).

Yes to all of the above-especially the part about secondary strikes- though I'm encouraged by the changes I'm seeing these days.

AMFA letter to IAM:http://www.goiam.org...f?LangType=1033

(Scab) Roach's response: http://www.goiam.org...mine.8.9.05.pdf

And if the UAW was so great and willing to help AMTs why don't they organize you guys instead of going between college campuses organizing admin workers and teaching fellows? Despite the resurgence in the domestic auto industry UAW membership is still down sharply and their efforts to organize non-union workers at the southern plants for the foreigns has been remarkably unsuccessful.

Josh

Better question: why didn't they bother to (re)organize the companies in the Big 3's supply chain(s)?

All of us are guilty and must start supporting each other or big business will run us over.

We're our own worst enemies, and that's why they're running us over right now...

 

[xUT]

To be fair, I remember IAM stickers in urinals, too...

Amfanuts was ridiculous. BTW, whatever happened to "the_Mechanic.com?"

Tim shut it down kept the domain name.

TheAMT.com died due to lack of interest.

Some people didn't know any better, some people wanted to "show" the AMT's (for lack of a better term), and some people are just enamored with pushing around big shiny jets... What can I say?

How did that work out? There was an IAM Ramper whom refused to do pushbacks at SFO during the NWA strike.
You know, union kinda thing.
What happened to him?
Did the IAM save his job?
HA!

We're our own worst enemies, and that's why they're running us over right now...

Absolutely!

Question is who is responsible for the fragmentation of unions?
The membership or the 'STEWARDS' ?

Unions committed suicide by not banding together!

Good Luck Brother!
Hope it works out for you all!!