robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
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umm WT according to glassdoor.com for ATL based Ramp DL pays btwn 10 and 12 an hr so your statics are not exactly accurate there.
IAM Stepping Up campaign
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southwind
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- Jan 22, 2008
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You and 700 can tap into whatever union propaganda site for your figures, I'll go with the the actual figures of a topped out ramp employee, which is between $23 and $24 an hour, which comes to approx. $46,000 a year..........well above the poverty level, for even a family of 8!robbedagain said:
2014 POVERTY GUIDELINES FOR THE 48 CONTIGUOUS STATES AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
1 $11,670
2 15,730
3 19,790
4 23,850
5 27,910
6 31,970
7 36,030
8 40,090
Persons in family/household Poverty guideline For families/households with more than 8 persons, add $4,060 for each additional person.
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/14poverty.cfm
Kev3188
Veteran
Wow.WorldTraveler said:
Your memory is even more selective than I thought.
You really can't emember how you came to use the "small/large" group qualifiers?
Please...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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Kev,
I don't live in the past memorizing the date of when each group unionized although I thought that one group has unionized since the merger. I do know that none of the largest workgroups - each of which have +/- 10K employees - has become unionized.
In the spirit of mutual respect and constructive debate, do you think you could just answer the question of what DL groups are unionized, the number of new union members gained in that process, and other than the pilots, when they gained representation?
there is absolutely no requirement in US law for a company to provide a salary to support a family of X members or for employment to be offered on a full-time basis.
There is no position at DL that pays an hourly wage, that on a full-time basis does not easily clear the poverty line.
If a person does not gain enough hours as a part-timer at one company, then they need to get more than one job. That concept is as old as the concept of employment.
The simple fact is that Obama Administration policies have done more to kill the creation of full-time jobs than has taken place in any Administration in US history.
DL easily exceeds every US requirement for employment for US based jobs.
The simple fact is that the bar for good paying jobs has been dramatically lowered by no less than the US government itself and no union or company can overcome the destructive effects of government policy.
Take your campaign to the ballot box before you worry about what any individual company or union can do.
still, there is no evidence that the IAM or any other union can improve the financial or quality of life issues on the job for DL employees relative to what DL's peers have.
700 and the IAM love to focus on individual issues to try and convince people the IAM is better and yet squirm when industry wide data consistently shows that all the unions are able to do is rearrange a couple issues on the priority list without increasing the overall value of a contract.
The reason why DL employees have consistently chosen not to be further unionized is because DL's total compensation, benefits, and QOL package is as good as or better than the industry as an average.
The LFCs that are seeing their employees vote for unions have not done that and it is no surprise why they are seeing increased unionization but DL is not
I don't live in the past memorizing the date of when each group unionized although I thought that one group has unionized since the merger. I do know that none of the largest workgroups - each of which have +/- 10K employees - has become unionized.
In the spirit of mutual respect and constructive debate, do you think you could just answer the question of what DL groups are unionized, the number of new union members gained in that process, and other than the pilots, when they gained representation?
there is absolutely no requirement in US law for a company to provide a salary to support a family of X members or for employment to be offered on a full-time basis.
There is no position at DL that pays an hourly wage, that on a full-time basis does not easily clear the poverty line.
If a person does not gain enough hours as a part-timer at one company, then they need to get more than one job. That concept is as old as the concept of employment.
The simple fact is that Obama Administration policies have done more to kill the creation of full-time jobs than has taken place in any Administration in US history.
DL easily exceeds every US requirement for employment for US based jobs.
The simple fact is that the bar for good paying jobs has been dramatically lowered by no less than the US government itself and no union or company can overcome the destructive effects of government policy.
Take your campaign to the ballot box before you worry about what any individual company or union can do.
still, there is no evidence that the IAM or any other union can improve the financial or quality of life issues on the job for DL employees relative to what DL's peers have.
700 and the IAM love to focus on individual issues to try and convince people the IAM is better and yet squirm when industry wide data consistently shows that all the unions are able to do is rearrange a couple issues on the priority list without increasing the overall value of a contract.
The reason why DL employees have consistently chosen not to be further unionized is because DL's total compensation, benefits, and QOL package is as good as or better than the industry as an average.
The LFCs that are seeing their employees vote for unions have not done that and it is no surprise why they are seeing increased unionization but DL is not
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
- 11,125
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southwind try again I went to glassdoor.com and typed in salary, delta airlines, ATL (for base location only) those figures DO NOT LIE and IT IS NOT PROPAGANDA period. Your buddy WT said its in the DOT and I checked that out but could not find the accurate salaries for ATL based FSA and as KEV said not everyone is topped out..
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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what you cannot grasp, robbedoverandoveragain, is that the little website you want to quote as the gospel is not a representative sample of anything.
It is a survey of a few people who have chosen to post their salaries online - anonymously - but there are tens of thousands of other employees who have not.
picking out a few people from any group to the exclusion of the whole group will ALWAYS result in a skewed view of reality.
But you and 700 have thrived on picking out a few data points in order to push your view of DL despite the fact hatt you have absolutely no connection to DL.
DL employees in your workgroup make more on average than their peers at US.
The IAM can't help DL employees.
Get a grip and move on.
It is a survey of a few people who have chosen to post their salaries online - anonymously - but there are tens of thousands of other employees who have not.
picking out a few people from any group to the exclusion of the whole group will ALWAYS result in a skewed view of reality.
But you and 700 have thrived on picking out a few data points in order to push your view of DL despite the fact hatt you have absolutely no connection to DL.
DL employees in your workgroup make more on average than their peers at US.
The IAM can't help DL employees.
Get a grip and move on.
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
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what you cannot grasp is the fact that I do know and I do grasp the facts
youre the one who does not grasp crap. DOT does not have the numbers as you proclaim yet I found a website called www.glassdoor.com that keeps track of salaries for each department of the employees of a large nbr of companies
youre the one who does not grasp crap. DOT does not have the numbers as you proclaim yet I found a website called www.glassdoor.com that keeps track of salaries for each department of the employees of a large nbr of companies
Kev3188
Veteran
So much projection...so little time...WorldTraveler said:
southwind
Veteran
- Jan 22, 2008
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Guess you stupid enough to believe someone should walk in off the street and automatically be topped out without proving their worth and being paid the same as someone who's been there for 20 years!700UW said:
Hmmm.....I looked at the "ACTUAL" DL pay scale for ramp!robbedagain said:
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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I will post the site for the airline data project which uses data directly from the DOT.
The DOT data is a complete representation of all employees at an airline; it is not a sample of people who choose to participate in the survey.
It isn't the top scale or bottom scale but represents the actual expenses airlines have for their employees.
No, Kev, there is no projection involved in using aggregate, large scale data to make my point.
The reason why the labor movement can't win elections at DL is because the labor movement wants to pick out a few data points and try and paint a story that represents the totality of the DL experience and then convince all DL employees that a few data points or the experiences of a few exceptions are the norm - but they simply are not.
If DL employees in aggregate were reflective of the snapshots labor presents, then I would have absolutely no problem if DL employees chose to further unionize.
The fact that those DL employees are not choosing representation should provide some evidence that the story labor tries to present is not representative and my assessment of the data points and snapshots is accurate.
bingo.
somehow it is not a surprise that what actually is published for DL employees is more accurate than a non-scientific website that doesn't even say which 15 people chose to participate
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Please enlighten us and show me where I posted that someone should walk off the street and be topped out.southwind said:
You posted max salary and you dont have the brain power to compute and comprehend the Ready Reserves who NEVER reach top out pay nor that every one in ACS of Inflight are topped out.
If you are so smart as you claim, why dont you find the breakdown of how many employees in ACS or Inflight are at what step of the payscale.
But I know you wont, as your own propaganda doesnt suit the real truth.
Just ask Kevin, 15 agents at his station are at the low end of the scale.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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so Kevin has 15 relatively new hires and possibly ready reserves.
Where does DL have a legal or moral obligation to pay its employees more than the market bears in other jobs?
And once again you make it impossible to take you seriously when you say that someone "doesn't have the brain power to compute and comprehend" because they don't agree with you.
Your confrontational and disrespectful way of relating to other people is a big part of why DL employees want nothing to do with the same failed labor-mgmt. model that is the norm at other airlines.
southwind doesn't have access to the number of people at each pay step and neither do you or the IAM.
Averages show the salary that should be closest to what an average employee makes. it is the most valid statistical measure of how well or how poorly any employee does relative to their peers at other airlines.
The DOT data allows it to be calculated. A website survey of 15 people isn't even close to accurate.
Where does DL have a legal or moral obligation to pay its employees more than the market bears in other jobs?
And once again you make it impossible to take you seriously when you say that someone "doesn't have the brain power to compute and comprehend" because they don't agree with you.
Your confrontational and disrespectful way of relating to other people is a big part of why DL employees want nothing to do with the same failed labor-mgmt. model that is the norm at other airlines.
southwind doesn't have access to the number of people at each pay step and neither do you or the IAM.
Averages show the salary that should be closest to what an average employee makes. it is the most valid statistical measure of how well or how poorly any employee does relative to their peers at other airlines.
The DOT data allows it to be calculated. A website survey of 15 people isn't even close to accurate.
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I am just aspiring to act like you! LMAO!
You are the biggest hypocrite, you call names, attack and insult just like everyone else.
Never thought a missionary would act totally opposite of what Jesus teaches.
But hey, you are the one who has to sleep at night with your own behavior.
You are the biggest hypocrite, you call names, attack and insult just like everyone else.
Never thought a missionary would act totally opposite of what Jesus teaches.
But hey, you are the one who has to sleep at night with your own behavior.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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I show people the same respect they show others.
In your case, you get what you have coming to you.
You have the distorted view that you should be entitled to treat everyone like dirt and then have them walk on water for you.
I sleep very well.
I also stuck it out at an airline in order to get a retirement.
You didn't and couldn't work with a system that you now have the nerve to tell everyone else what needs to be fixed.
the problem is you.
In your case, you get what you have coming to you.
You have the distorted view that you should be entitled to treat everyone like dirt and then have them walk on water for you.
I sleep very well.
I also stuck it out at an airline in order to get a retirement.
You didn't and couldn't work with a system that you now have the nerve to tell everyone else what needs to be fixed.
the problem is you.
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