IAM Fleet Service topic

[Tim Nelson]

duplicate post, deleted

 

[Tim Nelson]

duplicat post, deleted

 

[cltrat]

if Doug can refuse to come back to the table then why did he come back this time?? all of you are being asked this but none of you have answered it

somebody? anybody? Buehlar?

since all you wanna be lawyers smartened up from staying at a Holliday Inn think that the CIC and protection provided to west stations is worth nothing I guess you are smarter than the firm DP and Al Pal has working for them?
somebody tell why they came back to the table (Again) in the first place? to be nice guys ? to toss us a little bone?
There was only two reasons to get rid of CIC and the west protection and some of you are willing to give it to them for nothing vote this crap down and they will be back again till those things are gone

if you're east and vote yes don't be in here bi**hing when your new UA co worker beside you is making more money has more vacation and better double time for the next several years than you do

if you're west and insurance eats up most of your raise then you get flushed out of a job by those senior peeps at the out sourced stations don't be in here bi**hing

some of you need to quit drinking the kool aid and start smelling the coffee

 

[doing it on my knees]

Tim,
When do you have time to sleep? When this is all over, which I hope is sooner than later, you should take a vacation and rest those typing fingers in a bowl of ice.
Thanks for all of your information. I know people appreciate being informed even if they don't believe what is being written on this forum. I know I appreciate the info....

 

[Tim Nelson]

somebody? anybody? Buehlar?

since all you wanna be lawyers smartened up from staying at a Holliday Inn think that the CIC and protection provided to west stations is worth nothing I guess you are smarter than the firm DP and Al Pal has working for them?
somebody tell why they came back to the table (Again) in the first place? to be nice guys ? to toss us a little bone?
There was only two reasons to get rid of CIC and the west protection and some of you are willing to give it to them for nothing vote this crap down and they will be back again till those things are gone

if you're east and vote yes don't be in here bi**hing when your new UA co worker beside you is making more money has more vacation and better double time for the next several years than you do

if you're west and insurance eats up most of your raise then you get flushed out of a job by those seior peeps at the out sourced staion don't be in here bi**hing

some of you need to quit drinking the kool aid and start smelling the coffee

The insurance for full time family is $320 which is around $200 more than the west. It will take someone to make an additional $300 to come up with $200 [net plus taxes] which represents a $1.75 extra per hour on a 173 hour month. Some westies will immediately receive a pay cut based on insurance alone unless they are on a step that gets them at least a $1.75 pay increase. Loss of time for sick pay adds in also. STD, LTD, etc., all add up plus of course the new reduction in scope clause and waiver of current western scopes.

This contract is the perfect storm for an employee in an upcoming merger. United or american will keep this contract in place until at least 2016 [see how US AIRWAYS is doing America West]. In fact, the only reason why the west is allowed to wiggle out of its contract is because of the east COC. This company isn't being a 'nice fella'. This company wants the COC. Even Canale has admitted that the COC, even if it is debatable, gives the ramp much leverage. It's $21.43 up to $26hr and that is why Hemenway wants it out. It is also the reason why mediated talks would be the ticket once this is voted out.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[700UW]

Tim dont forget to include the mechancs gave up a lot or scope and allows 50% of heavy maintenance billable hours to be outsourced.

You can say what you want, but they gave up a lot to get things back.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim dont forget to include the mechancs gave up a lot or scope and allows 50% of heavy maintenance billable hours to be outsourced.

You can say what you want, but they gave up a lot to get things back.

I know, they gave up bunches in bankruptcy and were also union members since 1949. I'm not disputing those facts.

regards,

Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[700UW]

Not talking bankrutpcy, talking about the recent ratified CBA.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Not talking bankrutpcy, talking about the recent ratified CBA.

yeah I know. Fleet is giving up scope, stations, also. Real quick, did the mechanics give up anything in the 'reduction in force' article? I know these aren't traditional bargaining talks but somehow hemenway got Canale to give up certain seniority rights for full timers to part time recall positions. This will be absolutely HUGE in a merger where work forces are reduced.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[700UW]

I dont believe so, but remember there is no part time in mtc.

There was a slight change in the bumping I believe.

 

[freedom]

Henderfuzz, you seem angry. Look, who knows how this vote will eventually turn out, anyone's opinion at this point has just as much validity as the other in regards to the vote turnout.

You mentioned me hijacking this union and vote elsewhere. All I have done is put forth objective information on www.joeypage.com/voteno and if that is a bad thing then I stand accused. I provided comparisons of this contract with the one that was rejected, with Continental wages, with our bankrupt contracts, and provided objective information that refutes the lies spread by western leaders. None of this is a bad thing and provides the masses with the right answers to their questions. Every one negative email I get, I get 10 positive ones that thank me for my personal time. It is what I do, provide a different opinion to what the union wants you to believe. I think my position is convincing and in the majority, however, if it isn't then I'm ok with that since the membership will decide in May. I will not let this union sell a contract with it's fear campaign where it continues to talk down to the masses and beat them down just so a merger can slide on by. And if you don't think a merger is going to happen then you must not have read the media, read Parker's letter, or even looked at the IAM's 'merger watch' page. And anyone who refuses to believe that the COC is meaningless is not basing their decision on the actions of the company.

The alternative is to only listen to one side of the argument in which case ignorance would dominate, lies would run rampant. Once the masses rightly review what the union puts out and what I put out, they will at least have enough information to make an intelligent decision. For instance, PRez is a respected person and he's voting Yes. I don't have a problem with that. The membership will decide one way or the other and regardless of which way it votes, it will have nothing to do with our solidarity which is strong systemwide.

PHX is a strong Yes vote. Big deal, i have many friends in PHX and will count them as friends if this gets shot down or if this gets ratified. PHL and CLT are sure No's, is it enough, who knows? Time will tell.

Non-Union Continental wages with just announced 2% pay increase for July 1st
remember non-union Continental isn't close to the industry average but they have better benefits also: 5 weeks vacation, paid holiday pay, 100% sick time, 3xprofit sharing, and much more.

Comparison of this contract with the one we voted down in September

Comparison of this contract with our bankrupt contracts of 2002 & 2003

West side only: The lies your Canale loyalist are spreading to you

Contract information main page

And I'm working on a piece now that compares the company's balance sheet, 30% mechanic raise, 200% company exec bonus plan, and this bankrupt contract.

None of these comparisons support justice or a fair and equitable shake.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
email: [email protected]

Those are nice facts tim , and you employ a lot of FACTS in your writing style , but you offer few concrete solutions for the future .

FACT : this TA offers an improvement over what the east currently now has .

FACT : this TA offers improvements over the wages the west currently has .




Everyone wins with this …. OR you can take another chance and listen to the gamblers … the ones who are betting against the ever sky rocking price of oil , the ones betting against the united states economy as it falls apart and multiple airlines shut their doors , you can join up with those betting against a joint statement by our union and company that their will be no more Negotiations , you can bet with the guys who told you the change of control was a sure fire win , join up with the betters who think that our union is a complete and utter failure in Negotiations , even thou the TA that we see today is similar to the TA we received in September that had to have outside mediation help to come to an agreement …

It’s your future but I gotta tell you , the odds aren’t looking too good .

 

[giantfan]

Here's a scenario
We vote NO
We go back to neg. now
We get a better deal.

good luck with that.....

 

[Tim Nelson]

Those are nice facts tim , and you employ a lot of FACTS in your writing style , but you offer few concrete solutions for the future .

FACT : this TA offers an improvement over what the east currently now has .

FACT : this TA offers improvements over the wages the west currently has .




Everyone wins with this …. OR you can take another chance and listen to the gamblers … the ones who are betting against the ever sky rocking price of oil , the ones betting against the united states economy as it falls apart and multiple airlines shut their doors , you can join up with those betting against a joint statement by our union and company that their will be no more Negotiations , you can bet with the guys who told you the change of control was a sure fire win , join up with the betters who think that our union is a complete and utter failure in Negotiations , even thou the TA that we see today is similar to the TA we received in September that had to have outside mediation help to come to an agreement …

It’s your future but I gotta tell you , the odds aren’t looking too good .

Freedom, I'll rely on the masses to dictate the odds come May 9th thank you. I happen to think that this will be around a 70% No vote since many west stations are also 'deeply' concerned. PHX doesn't speak for the entire west. Check LAS, LAS has 'deep concerns' also but will be a yes IMO but not as much of a yes as you may think.

At any rate, your opinion about the contract is not backed up with any evidence. You have provided no objective evidence to further this discussion. Tell me Freedom, what is the value of the COC? What is the value of extending the contract another 2 years and getting stuck until 2016? What is the value of the seniority restrictions that this contract has in the new 'reduction in force' language which restricts full-timers to part-time recall? What is the value of the profit sharing if we merge? The real problem is that everything that is given up screams of a contract 'catered' to a merger partner, in which case, this contract should never pass.

I can tell you this much and all reasonable persons will agree, Hemenway's position on the COC flipped like a pancake and he has been told by the attorneys to 'get it out of the contract'. In bankruptcy, neither Hemenway or Parker were concerned about removing the COC. Also, remember, this is only a transition agreement so why did Hemenway insist on restricting seniority rights to part time recall for Full timers who may be laid off? I understand why Canale let him have that since Canale's interest is tied legally to the stockholders of United. Why does Hemenway need profit sharing?
You yourself have made the case that profit sharing and the COC are worth nothing or 'just a little', but I think Hemenway knows more than you or me about why his actions have flipped like a pancake. To say a merger won't happen will do harm to justice. The media, CEO, even the IAM has 'merger watch'. A merger is in the cards and it forced hemenway to play his COC card, Profit sharing card, reduction in force card, and extension of contract card....for all to see.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Save708AW]

Tim,

You last stated, "At any rate, your opinion about the contract is not backed up with any evidence. You have provided no objective evidence to further this discussion."

Not to pick on you, but a person doesn't need evidence for an opinion. That's why it's an opinion and not a fact. Now it is a fact, that I agree with him. There is evidence to lead this way by my stating so.

I am sorry for you "no" guys, cause from the beat on the street is, this thing is gonna squeak by. I, nor alot of other people, think anything better is going to come along and many regret passing up on the Sep T/A waiting for COC arbitration. If West is rolled into East if this thing doesn't fly, which I am sure will happen, then we are all screwed for another 2+ years, minimum, until a new contract is written and ratified.

I think some people will lose their jobs over this thing not passing, and the West getting rolled into East is highly probable. Does anyone really trust IAM to fight to protect them? Most of us are pissed that they aren't fighting for us now. What's going to change between now and then? IAM will roll over like a lap dog of a union that it is.

Besides, if it takes this long for a T/A, at this rate it will take IAM and US 10 years for a full contract. By the time they get a contract agreed on, we will all be working for United US American British Airways, the worlds new largest consolidated airline with 35,000 fleet service workers on 4 continents.

I will take the job security now. I will take the money now. I will protect the field stations for now and guarantee them another few years to fight to keep their jobs or prepare to move.

This of course is only my opinion. It's factually based on keeping the small bit of job security I have, and adding some money to take care of my family.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

You last stated, "At any rate, your opinion about the contract is not backed up with any evidence. You have provided no objective evidence to further this discussion."

Not to pick on you, but a person doesn't need evidence for an opinion. That's why it's an opinion and not a fact. Now it is a fact, that I agree with him. There is evidence to lead this way by my stating so.

I am sorry for you "no" guys, cause from the beat on the street is, this thing is gonna squeak by. I, nor alot of other people, think anything better is going to come along and many regret passing up on the Sep T/A waiting for COC arbitration. If West is rolled into East if this thing doesn't fly, which I am sure will happen, then we are all screwed for another 2+ years, minimum, until a new contract is written and ratified.

I think some people will lose their jobs over this thing not passing, and the West getting rolled into East is highly probable. Does anyone really trust IAM to fight to protect them? Most of us are pissed that they aren't fighting for us now. What's going to change between now and then? IAM will roll over like a lap dog of a union that it is.

Besides, if it takes this long for a T/A, at this rate it will take IAM and US 10 years for a full contract. By the time they get a contract agreed on, we will all be working for United US American British Airways, the worlds new largest consolidated airline with 35,000 fleet service workers on 4 continents.

I will take the job security now. I will take the money now. I will protect the field stations for now and guarantee them another few years to fight to keep their jobs or prepare to move.

This of course is only my opinion. It's factually based on keeping the small bit of job security I have, and adding some money to take care of my family.

you do not have to feel sorry for those voting No. I hope nobody loses sleep over whichever way this goes. God, Family first. We are all in this together. Bottom line. Solidarity is strong, whichever way this goes. If it goes No then we must continue to stick together. If it goes yes then we must accept the results and get ready for the next fight. That's what being in a union is all about.

Do I disagree with you? Yeah. Does that mean I'm furious at those voting Yes? No. Collective bargaining gives us the right to decide and the majority decision is always 'sacred'. Bottom line.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago