Who and why did the merger successor ship integration protection of the Allegheny-Mohawk provision get thrown out of TWA union contracts
🌟 Exclusive Amazon Black Friday Deals 2024 🌟
Don’t miss out on the best deals of the season! Shop now 🎁
IAM Fleet Service topic
- Thread starter Edward
- Start date
- Status
giantfan
Senior
- Apr 11, 2008
- 306
- 0
605AW,
That is a pretty scary scenario for everyone but I believe you're right. I think it's a very realistic scenario.
Maybe everyone should go back and read what you wrote on p.18 of this board. Bottom line the co. will win in either scenario....so let's take the $$$$ now and not risk the "at least we tried" mentality and going back at the end of 2009 for another two years of negotiations. If we vote this down....we could be looking at making these sh*t wages another 3 to 4 years.
605AW
Member
- Mar 6, 2007
- 30
- 0
I should have added that the company will make the membership decide what the definition of "cost neutral" is
- Banned
- #186
AA insisted they be removed or they would not have purchased TWA. So it was removed in court.
605AW,
"Next, The Union see's it got itself in a pickle because all along they should have been negotiating the West FSA's. So, I anticipate they give the West a chance to vote in the future if they (we) want to be put into the East contract. By doing this, they will claim "well, at least we tried". And the company sits back and watches Phx and Las pit their eventual Class 1 Hub status payraise - top out of $17.87 (not $19.00) verses the outsource of 18 stations. If it's a yes vote...the company gets even more value on their 2008 budget because of a minumum of 5 stations will be gone with a stroke of the pen. Shift some mainline flights to RJ's and 10 more go away. If it's a no vote, the company still get it 's value because the West pay will stay the same. Either way, the company gets what it wants."
605AW, actually that is 23 stations gone if we went to BK contract.
Respectfull,
P. REZ
"Next, The Union see's it got itself in a pickle because all along they should have been negotiating the West FSA's. So, I anticipate they give the West a chance to vote in the future if they (we) want to be put into the East contract. By doing this, they will claim "well, at least we tried". And the company sits back and watches Phx and Las pit their eventual Class 1 Hub status payraise - top out of $17.87 (not $19.00) verses the outsource of 18 stations. If it's a yes vote...the company gets even more value on their 2008 budget because of a minumum of 5 stations will be gone with a stroke of the pen. Shift some mainline flights to RJ's and 10 more go away. If it's a no vote, the company still get it 's value because the West pay will stay the same. Either way, the company gets what it wants."
605AW, actually that is 23 stations gone if we went to BK contract.
Respectfull,
P. REZ
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
- 11,125
- 2,676
isnt that illegal even to have a court throw it out
freedom
Veteran
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
WE have our ears and eyes closed ??????
Who just lost the CHANGE OF CONTROL arbitration ??????? YOU LOST !!! BUT PLEASE BY ALL MEANS CONTINUE TO BEAT THAT DEAD HORSE ... maybe with enough beatings it MIGHT come back to life .... that's right boys , beat the spirt back into it !!!
yes that's right you SHOULD give Ron Roth credit , so far i'd say he's been a damn good leader in being able to predict what's going to happen in the future , and as far as actually DOING THINGS , like forming protests , rallies etc , he's ON IT ... he's proactive , rather than reactive !
dignity and respect , you keep going on about that .... your pride will cost us the shirts off our backs !!!!!!
BTW , to the "masses" tim's support for a NO vote isn't as solid as he says , at least from all reports that i'm hearing , and you folk need to keep in mind that PHX is the TA super center here , there's nothing more talked about here , we're sifting for any little bit of TA information out there .
Vote yes and get everyone you work with to vote yes!
Failure is not an option .
Harry Callahan
Veteran
Freedom:
With all due respect, I do not feel the East will be voting for this & from what I'm hearing many in the West are no.
With all due respect, I do not feel the East will be voting for this & from what I'm hearing many in the West are no.
- Banned
- #191
Not while in bankruptcy, in the US case both Fleet and M&R's CBA were abrogtated (thrown out).
You know, all I can see that the yes votes are reading in the TA is the money. Its almost like the blinders have been put on and the only thing that is seen is the money. You all talk about reading all of the TA, but you should also get a copy of the existing East contract and read all of it, including such things as the insurance premiums coming out of your pocket and the charts are there to show you the breakdown, with the increase in the future. If your increase is wiped out with insurance premiums, the decrease in sick pay,
no shift premiums, etc. where are you now. We were not in negotiations with the company, because in negotiations it is a give and take and all this company wants to do is take. This is the last contract to be negotiated in my time left with this company and I want it to be a decent one. If the company can give the officers ridiculous bonuses, the mechanics a half decent TA, in this most critical time of merger mania then don't tell me they can't come up with a better offer. Don't give me this, oil price crap, and this economy crap, because if it don't apply to all then screw it, it is an invalid argument. You all have the right to vote what you want but please take off the blinders and look at all of the angles and read all of the TA and East contract and make an informed decision not just based on the money.
no shift premiums, etc. where are you now. We were not in negotiations with the company, because in negotiations it is a give and take and all this company wants to do is take. This is the last contract to be negotiated in my time left with this company and I want it to be a decent one. If the company can give the officers ridiculous bonuses, the mechanics a half decent TA, in this most critical time of merger mania then don't tell me they can't come up with a better offer. Don't give me this, oil price crap, and this economy crap, because if it don't apply to all then screw it, it is an invalid argument. You all have the right to vote what you want but please take off the blinders and look at all of the angles and read all of the TA and East contract and make an informed decision not just based on the money.
giantfan
Senior
- Apr 11, 2008
- 306
- 0
Isthisok,
Don't look at the money?? Ok...yea, that will work. Sorry dude, but I see a raise, doubletime, 100% full sick time and a couple more holidays. That's money in my pocket.
Like 605 said...here's a scenario
we vote no
they fold the west into the east
we go back to neg. at the end of 2009
everyone complains about the offer b/c it's never good enough
we hammer a new contract out over say, 2 years
and I'm stuck making bankruptcy wages for 4 more years
NO thanks....and yes, WE ARE LOOKING AT THE MONEY, so I'd just as soon take it now then later.
Don't look at the money?? Ok...yea, that will work. Sorry dude, but I see a raise, doubletime, 100% full sick time and a couple more holidays. That's money in my pocket.
Like 605 said...here's a scenario
we vote no
they fold the west into the east
we go back to neg. at the end of 2009
everyone complains about the offer b/c it's never good enough
we hammer a new contract out over say, 2 years
and I'm stuck making bankruptcy wages for 4 more years
NO thanks....and yes, WE ARE LOOKING AT THE MONEY, so I'd just as soon take it now then later.
The double time you speak of is if you want to live at work. You have to work at least 4 hrs your first day off and work your second day off ( after working 40 hrs to qualify) to get double time. You also don't get 100% sick time unless you have 100 or more sick days on the books. If you have had any sickness in the past or have medical issues then you are lucky to have that many on the books. Lets say you have 100 days and you call in sick.... you are paid 100% for the first day and 50% after that because you no longer have 100 or more sick days. Oh wow 2 more holidays what's that.... 2 days pay....huh? You didn't even address the increase in insurance premiums for the West. I know you have the East insurance but what about those out West. The increase in premiums alone could eat up the pay raise.
Here's a scenario
We vote NO
We go back to neg. now
We get a better deal.
Everyone is praying that whoever we merge with will fold us into their contract. Not necessarily true. US could be the purchaser and if we vote this TA in you could be working right alongside the merger employee making much less and less benefits, stuck with this TA for 4 more years or longer. Then you'll be complaining! Vote what you want but everyone out there needs to look at all the facts. West really needs to look at the insurance. If you are here for the benefits your insurance eats up most of the the pay. Also checkout the copays! Vote what you want but check all the numbers.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Henderfuzz, you seem angry. Look, who knows how this vote will eventually turn out, anyone's opinion at this point has just as much validity as the other in regards to the vote turnout.
You mentioned me hijacking this union and vote elsewhere. All I have done is put forth objective information on www.joeypage.com/voteno and if that is a bad thing then I stand accused. I provided comparisons of this contract with the one that was rejected, with Continental wages, with our bankrupt contracts, and provided objective information that refutes the lies spread by western leaders. None of this is a bad thing and provides the masses with the right answers to their questions. Every one negative email I get, I get 10 positive ones that thank me for my personal time. It is what I do, provide a different opinion to what the union wants you to believe. I think my position is convincing and in the majority, however, if it isn't then I'm ok with that since the membership will decide in May. I will not let this union sell a contract with it's fear campaign where it continues to talk down to the masses and beat them down just so a merger can slide on by. And if you don't think a merger is going to happen then you must not have read the media, read Parker's letter, or even looked at the IAM's 'merger watch' page. And anyone who refuses to believe that the COC is meaningless is not basing their decision on the actions of the company.
The alternative is to only listen to one side of the argument in which case ignorance would dominate, lies would run rampant. Once the masses rightly review what the union puts out and what I put out, they will at least have enough information to make an intelligent decision. For instance, PRez is a respected person and he's voting Yes. I don't have a problem with that. The membership will decide one way or the other and regardless of which way it votes, it will have nothing to do with our solidarity which is strong systemwide.
PHX is a strong Yes vote. Big deal, i have many friends in PHX and will count them as friends if this gets shot down or if this gets ratified. PHL and CLT are sure No's, is it enough, who knows? Time will tell.
Non-Union Continental wages with just announced 2% pay increase for July 1st
remember non-union Continental isn't close to the industry average but they have better benefits also: 5 weeks vacation, paid holiday pay, 100% sick time, 3xprofit sharing, and much more.
Comparison of this contract with the one we voted down in September
Comparison of this contract with our bankrupt contracts of 2002 & 2003
West side only: The lies your Canale loyalist are spreading to you
Contract information main page
And I'm working on a piece now that compares the company's balance sheet, 30% mechanic raise, 200% company exec bonus plan, and this bankrupt contract.
None of these comparisons support justice or a fair and equitable shake.
regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
email: [email protected]
- Status
Similar threads
