IAM Fleet Service topic (Mini Thread)

[Rock Bottom]

Freedom Sweetie,
You are so smart. I love the things you tell us! Thanks!

A union is only as strong as it's weakest link! Sounds like there is alot of weak links out there. Stand strong or Ann will say you are the weakest link, Goodbye.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Everyone here!

I just thought I might add to this board that whatever you think of my opinions on things, I don't consider myself a know-it-all. Far from it. I am not smart

enough to come up with contractual language the likes of what we've seen the last 8 months. But, I will research as much as I can because the language

was in there for a reason and you never know when it might pertain. With that I will say that the COC/ Pay Parity language pertains. I'm not trying to sway

your vote. I'm just showing the research and with that I make my decision.

Stand solid no matter who/what/where/whenever you vote. We're all We have............TOGETHER

Bottom line is it makes no sense at all to vote in a contract when your union has a 'merger watch' on its website, your CEO is telling you 'he's talking', and the papers are printing up headlines with your company's name in the center bullseye.
Don't you folks see how desperate Canale and his band of thieves are in trying to get you to vote this in before a merger? Why do you think managers are even trying to coach you to vote yes?

Mergers are going to happen and happen soon. The absolute worst time to fold your cards is directly before a merger. You won't be a player at the table and you will be screwed again for 8 years. Why do you think Hemenway wanted reduced seniority rights for reduction in force, COC, profit sharing, extension of contract, reduced scope for 19 stations? Those articles are almost never part of a transition agreement. At the same time you got nothing in return as you are stuck with the worst vacation and sick schedule in the industry, and $1.50 behind non-union help.

Fleet, you waited 5 years in bankruptcy to get to the point of a fair contract, don't feel the pressure and fold when a fair contract is just around the corner. You can always sign a nasty contract like this. The pressure is on but it's not too heavy. Put the pressure on Hemenway since he doesn't think you guys have the balls to bring him back. If the masses let Hemenway and Canale get away with this screwing, then it will be 7+ years of famine and "Tuffa Lucka". And don't even think that United will open up your contract or 'include you in their profit sharing'.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[urbff]

My shop steward said that Mark Wingard told him that we lost something in this TA that we could of had but
the discussion on the web he said nixed it. He would not go into detail but I assume that since company kiss a$$es monitor this site they see how easy some of us are. All this talk "I think $19 an hour is a decent wage" and "We've been waiting too long" etc. etc. just shows the company that they dangle just enough that they just might get it thru. Diarrhea mouth just got us screwed.

Bet he's right. It won't be the first time that he messes with our lives, and people are mislead and screwed by his dribble! We need to think for ourselves!

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Hey! We want to believe you guys with your years of experience, but you haven't yet convinced anyone West of the Mississippi that the CIC holds water. The pay scale and conditions look REALLY GOOD!

Try, as you might, the WEST is going for this TA!

HA. I would then suggest you look up Southwest's benefits then read over ours again.

There is no instant gratification in this TA. There is no future. There is no retirement. You are thinking 2 years from now, not 20 years.

That applies to the West who are all 20 years younger than our friends in the East.

 

[urbff]

Who knows what "they"(LCC) may do !

I feel urbff could probably explain this scenario better… since she is a qualified IAM contractual language expert.

Urbff… please put your education to work, and answer these questions for these dues paying members.

Why Billy, you flatter me! Thanks, and all this time you acted like you didn't care for me! I guess I was mistaken. Really Honey, I have no more than a simple high school education. I simply read and then quote. You could too! It's a hoot! I'm sure you are not only smart, but a strapping man too! Why we could start a whole new trend on here! This is fun isn't it?

Oh and one more tinnie, tiny, thing, If I'm not mistaken I think it may have been you, who thought urbff, stood for your best female friend. Guess again! My, you are fun!

 

[P. REZ]

JoeDirt,

Thanks, 21 years PHX.

 

[Rock Bottom]

Bet he's right. It won't be the first time that he messes with our lives, and people are mislead and screwed by his dribble! We need to think for ourselves!

We have to think for ourselves, you are so right. That is what I have been saying! we can't allow others to scare us into this T/A. We must be smart enough to read to signs and think for ourselves. You are so right Urbff. Thank you, I now know that I was a fool for every considering voting yes, so madam my vote is no.

 

[mike33]

Bet he's right. It won't be the first time that he messes with our lives, and people are mislead and screwed by his dribble! We need to think for ourselves!

Who's he and what Dribble...Do you even know whom who is? .........................Whomevah!!!!!

 

[roabilly]

Quote: Wall Street Journal 4/15/08 (exert)

“Another person familiar with the matter said United and US Airways have been in talks about a potential merger for over a month. The companies have done "a lot of work together" on what the synergies could be and are floating around a number that could be at least as attractive as synergies in a United-Continental linkup, this person said. Those synergies would be driven by the strength of US Airways' route network in the East, this person said, adding that the synergies would also be "meaningfully higher" than the $1 billion-plus in annual revenue and cost savings number that Northwest and Delta have said they expect to generate in a merger.â€￾
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try as you might to dispel the impact of the upcoming rounds of consolidation, as well as the eminent consequence on LCC Fleet regarding COC… we have seen through this ploy!

We will stand strong… and we will see this through, by not ratifying until we see a fair agreement!

 

[Tim Nelson]

A union is only as strong as it's weakest link! Sounds like there is alot of weak links out there. Stand strong or Ann will say you are the weakest link, Goodbye.

actually all the weakness is coming from basically one station. Bottom line.

There is alot of solidarity and has been. The masses aren't dumb, they are carefully reviewing both sides of the information and finding out that while Canale, MW, PF are trying to stir fear, they are not answering questions. OTOH, our information is 'rooting out' the treason against the masses and preparing the masses for a merger. Canale should be preparing the masses for a merger like he is preparing the United masses. Click over to 141 website and you will see how Canale has the back of the United workers but he doesn't want to talk about mergers with you because he knows he is screwing you with a 10 foot pole. Don't you folks understand this?

Two things
1. If this vote was on this past Monday it would have been close. This contract produced the cheap whore effect. The cheap whore effect lacks substance and durational ability and any fascination with it is usually in the 'quicky mode'. Same with this contract. The fascination is now over and its effect is not losing steam. Canale knows this that is why he is getting the negotiations team members to tell the westies lies like they will be forced into the east contract [where's that written?] and telling the east that Hemenway won't be back till forever. Both lies and unfounded.

2. We must prepare for a merger. Preparing for a merger doesnt mean pushing the 'stupid button' and voting yes on a dreadfully wicked contract that is actually worse than our first two bankruptcy contracts. Preparing for a merger means hold steady and don't wobble or you will fall and be hosed over for years.

More later....gotta bolt now.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

Dudes, Randy can't even negotiate his way out of bankruptcy.
Here's a comparison of this TA with our first two bankrupt TA's.

This TA: $19
First two bankruptcy contracts: $19.49 [hell Randy can't even beat our bankrupt contracts]

Vacation:
This TA: 4 weeks
First two Bankruptcy contracts: 5 weeks then snapback to 7 weeks

Holiday Pay:
This TA: Hell No
Bankrupt TA: Yes, Time and a half

Holidays:
This TA: 7
Bankrupt TA: 8, then snapback to 10

Sick leave:
This Ta: 50% with 9 accruals
Bankrupt TA: 100% pay but only 9 accurals per year with snapback to 12

Shift Premium:
This ta: Hell No
Bankrupt TA: 50% [.26 cents] then snapback

Overtime:
This TA: Double time with no teeth. Only get after 8 hours on your saturday
Bankrupt TA: Full double time on all 7 days

Positive space travel:
This TA: Hell yeah for 5 Union Bosses
Bankrupt TA: No

Folks, what the hell is anyone thinking to vote in this contract that is about $150 million less than our first two bankrupt contracts?????? C'mon people, let's get this thing shot down and move forward! I can understand taking concessions in bankruptcy but not after your company makes $1 billion dollars and has the second best balance sheet in the entire industry. Don't let Canale's fear campaign that Aloha went belly up so you need to take these concessions, fool ya.


I'm going to do a summary comparison on this contract with our first two bankruptcy contracts and when you compare the two above, you see how damn awful this contract is.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

Bet he's right. It won't be the first time that he messes with our lives, and people are mislead and screwed by his dribble! We need to think for ourselves!

MW is almost always wrong. He lost his local elections in PIT so Randy made him an AGC. Then he couldn't even get Canale his nomination in PIT.

Urbff,
Canale signed 5 contracts, let me refresh your memories of who's lying and who calls Randy's Bull Crap.

In 2002 Randy said, the 1113 letters would mean the company couldn't come back for more

I told people that Randy was full of crap and that the 1113 letters weren't worth the price of a used baby diaper. I was right.

In 2003, Randy said we should further concede stations because US AIRWAYS promised us MDA and "Express station' work. I told people Randy was ignorant and MDA was just a scam to hoodwink Randy. Unfortunately, I was right.

In 2004, Randy said, "The concession stand is closed" I told people he was full of S##T
then he signs the latest treason. I really wish I wasn't right on this one.

In 2007 he signs a deal [this past September] and sez, "Your choice is between voting for this or waiting till 2009." I told people he was still full of crap and at this point I believe i said everytime his lips are moving he's lying. I was right because hemenway came back

Now Randy basically sez, "You must vote this in because Aloha went belly up, skybus went bellyup, our stock is low." Hell, this arse even threw in 911 as a reason to vote for this now that I look at this letter I just received. Hell, he's already starting to repeat his lies as he said again, your choice is between this or waiting till 2009. WTF?

I'm getting tired of being right all the time and I'm not really that bright of a person.

Here's another thing Randy is saying if you listen very closely.....'he's saying "Pay no attention to mergers." But over on the United website he is preaching mergers as evil and saying he will protect them.
Help me out here bud.

Morons.....we got morons on our team.

Regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[urbff]

Urbff,
Huh?
Voting yes will eliminate 18 stations, minimum. Bottom line. Kindly defend your unclear conclusion.

I understand the 14 flight thingy you mention but you need to be more honest and instead of looking at the transition date like Randy points to, you ought to tell people the truth and point them to the 'drop dead' language at Dec 2011 which eliminates all 18 stations that fall below 28 flights. If you are a east sider then you alredy know that each station that has been 'called out' on a list like this has been gone 100% of the time. I think it's up to 60 stations gone now. Trust me, the company will make sure that they put a saturday schedule in there and a computer tally of all flights so they can contract out each station that Randy allowed them to.
Also, tell the truth about how the insourcing language has now been eliminated so that they go bye bye forever.

Those 18 stations are gone and they don't even know it. OTOH, this contract gets voted out, those stations are preserved and Hemenway can't get to them, just like he can't get to them now.

I know you say this contract saves jobs but I think Hemenway has other plans and that's the reason why he eliminated the strong language these 18 stations have. I'll go with Hemenway since he signed it and you didn't. he knows a thing or two why he did.

Please enlighten us on exactly how you are going to save these jobs? Does my eyes deceive me about this "Drop Dead" date of Dec 2011?

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Oh dear Timmy, I am not meaning to mislead anyone at all! I hope to heavens that I haven't! It's like this. When this TA is voted in, we have some job protection for our, lets call them, less hub like, stations. Oddles more than that east contract would afford them. Which is where we will be if this doesn't go through! We all know Dougie's working hard right now on this pesky merger looming over us. Why what would make anyone think we will ever get to the Dec 2011 date? Why, we will be back in merger talks way before that. Let's put some money in our empty pockets, and take care of our brothers and sisters right now and vote YES just like everyone else will!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Oh dear Timmy, I am not meaning to mislead anyone at all! I hope to heavens that I haven't! It's like this. When this TA is voted in, we have some job protection for our, lets call them, less hub like, stations. Oddles more than that east contract would afford them. Which is where we will be if this doesn't go through! We all know Dougie's working hard right now on this pesky merger looming over us. Why what would make anyone think we will ever get to the Dec 2011 date? Why, we will be back in merger talks way before that. Let's put some money in our empty pockets, and take care of our brothers and sisters right now and vote YES just like everyone else will!

we aren't talking about the east contract. The west stations have much better language in scope and can stand alone, that's why hemenway wants this concessionary language in there. Unless you are saying the west will be forced into the east contract. But you already know that can't happen. Who's going to force them in the east contract? Can the government? No Can the company? Hell no. Can Canale? The bylaws won't allow it without a vote since they will lose about 1,200 jobs and 22 benefits. It would have to be ratified as you know. So stop with the fear campaigns. Further, in theory, if Canale had the right to do it, he would be a madman and it would creat great destruction. Canale is no madman and Brickner would never allow him to create such damage [including the loss of 1,200 dues payors]. Stop with the nonsense and if you are going to talk about it then show where it's written that it can be done and I will show you where it can't be done. Fair deal?

Further, your position that we will never get to Dec 2011 is delusional. I think Hemenway knows a bit more than you and there is a BIG reason why he wants an extension so don't underplay it as it softens your position. Bottom line is if this rag gets in then we will have it till 2016+. No way in Hell United becomes a nice fella and opens it up. United will do us like US AIRWAYS has done the west and they will covet this ridiculus contract because it sux. Tell me, do you think Canale will share the United's profit sharing with us too then?

Sorry U, I don't think you convince anyone not to pay attention to that Dec 2011 date. It's illogical and nonsensical to think so.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[mike33]

Oh dear Timmy, I am not meaning to mislead anyone at all! I hope to heavens that I haven't! It's like this. When this TA is voted in, we have some job protection for our, lets call them, less hub like, stations. Oddles more than that east contract would afford them. Which is where we will be if this doesn't go through! We all know Dougie's working hard right now on this pesky merger looming over us. Why what would make anyone think we will ever get to the Dec 2011 date? Why, we will be back in merger talks way before that. Let's put some money in our empty pockets, and take care of our brothers and sisters right now and vote YES just like everyone else will!

Oh dear 'URBFF'

What will you tell those," less hub like" employees when there are too too many employees in those " less hub like " stations and UA employees are more

senior than they are so it's.........." furlough time again "

What does urbff stand for anyway?