Haven't Heard About the Extra 4% in Equity to be Held Aside?

[AANOTOK]

NYer,
 
They (the greedy former employees and their Lawyers) say the are entitled to 10%. Has the TWU sat down and made sure that is the correct amount.
 
Also, I call spin on your comment "So in essence, the original 5% the TWU was setting aside for expenses and fees has been lowered to 4% by the Court Order".
The ORIGINAL 5% was to cover EVERYTHING. It was never broken down to what percentage was to cover what.

 

[Flying low]

I'm thinking that with the TWU holding the extra shares pretty much guarantees them being voted out this year.

 

[NYer]

NYer,
 
They (the greedy former employees and their Lawyers) say the are entitled to 10%. Has the TWU sat down and made sure that is the correct amount.
 
Also, I call spin on your comment "So in essence, the original 5% the TWU was setting aside for expenses and fees has been lowered to 4% by the Court Order".
The ORIGINAL 5% was to cover EVERYTHING. It was never broken down to what percentage was to cover what.

 
The 10% is what the lawyers for the plaintiffs have stipulated in their submission. (actually is a number used in two of the lawsuits). The arguments of whether that is correct or not can't be made until there is a hearing, which is set for May.
 
At this point, the first course of action is to have the suit thrown out. If it isn't thrown out then the arguments becomes whether they deserve the equity and if they prevail in that, then it becomes how much.

 

[MetalMover]

 
Because of the Court Order that calls for that to be set aside, those shares or that value will be put into a Trust Fund to be managed by a financial professional. Also according to the Court Order, a maximum of 4% can be spent on fees and expenses, while the other 10% is for the exclusive purpose of paying the Early Out (plaintiffs) if the win their suit.
 
So in essence, the original 5% the TWU was setting aside for expenses and fees has been lowered to 4% by the Court Order.

Let's go back a bit.....Before the first distribution on 12/9/13, it was already determined that 5% will be set aside for grievances......Then in early 2014, the retirees filed a suit claiming equity and another 5% was put aside......Now another 4% is set aside for fees and such.....It is still 14%........
Now, the million dollar questions are:      Was the first 5% taken from the first distribution?  
                                                                 Was the second 5% taken from the third distribution?
                                                                 Will only 4% b taken from the final distribution?
                                                                 OR WILL THE 14% BE TAKEN FROM THE FINAL DISTRIBUTION?
 
Again....THIS IS WHY STOCK AS A FORM OF COMPENSATION IS NOT WORTH IT.....Especially when you have the amount piece mealed out to you and then you add in the TWU deciding how much each member gets... 

 

[screwed again]

My guess. Around 50 shares. The Q & A from the union says expect 25% of your day one distribution. As for the 14% "held" aside, I expect to see nothing.
Of course when it comes to money, the company, and this union, I'm a glass half empty kind of guy.

 

[Vortilon]

Well there you have it, the TWU has done another bang up job.  In fact, so much so - that I'm going to recind my AMFA card - said no one  ever!

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Again....THIS IS WHY STOCK AS A FORM OF COMPENSATION IS NOT WORTH IT.....Especially when you have the amount piece mealed out to you and then you add in the TWU deciding how much each member gets... 

The stock was not given as a form of direct compensation like your base wages. It was given for damages to our CBA brought on by the BK. The idea behind "Equity Distributions" is that for your losses, shares are issued in the emerging company. It's in the hope that as they are successful you too will be successful as the value grows from market confidence in the company's performance. As the stock price increases when you sell is your true value.

This was also the formula agreed to by the "Unsecured Creditors Committee" of which the 3 Unions held 3 of 9 seats in the decisions made. The way the distributions were made over time periods is also common to the process in most other "Reorganization" bankruptcies such as AA's.

 

[MetalMover]

The stock was not given as a form of direct compensation like your base wages. It was given for damages to our CBA brought on by the BK. The idea behind "Equity Distributions" is that for your losses, shares are issued in the emerging company. It's in the hope that as they are successful you too will be successful as the value grows from market confidence in the company's performance. As the stock price increases when you sell is your true value.

This was also the formula agreed to by the "Unsecured Creditors Committee" of which the 3 Unions held 3 of 9 seats in the decisions made. The way the distributions were made over time periods is also common to the process in most other "Reorganization" bankruptcies such as AA's.

First, I was making a general comment that I do not want stock as a form of compensation. You know, like the executives do...
Secondly, whether it is FROM damages, income, a gift, a donation...whatever.....MY W-2 REFLECTS THE STOCK AS INCOME! IT DOES NOT SHOW AS AN AWARD FROM DAMAGES!  IT SHOWS AS INCOME!

 

[WeAAsles]

First, I was making a general comment that I do not want stock as a form of compensation. You know, like the executives do...
Secondly, whether it is FROM damages, income, a gift, a donation...whatever.....MY W-2 REFLECTS THE STOCK AS INCOME! IT DOES NOT SHOW AS AN AWARD FROM DAMAGES!  IT SHOWS AS INCOME!

You could always make a Tax deductible donation of your shares to a worthy charity of your choosing if you'd like? I'm sure someone else would be more than happy for your generosity.

 

[MetalMover]

You could always make a Tax deductible donation of your shares to a worthy charity of your choosing if you'd like? I'm sure someone else would be more than happy for your generosity.

No thanks, I have already donated enough to both the TWU and the company.

 

[WeAAsles]

No thanks, I have already donated enough to both the TWU and the company.

I'm sorry. I was merely under the impression that you didn't want your shares and was trying to give you an option of what to do with them. I guess my impression was wrong then.

 

[AANOTOK]

NOT A MENTION OF THE 5%, 10%, 14% IN HIS LETTER. LOTS OF EXPLAINING THOUGH. B)
 

 ​

MEMORANDUM​

TO: TWU AA Local Presidents 501 - 591

FROM: Garry Drummond, Director Air Transport Division
RE: TWU DAY 120 COMMUNICATION

Once the market closes today, American will begin the process of making the day 120 distribution. As you know, since the number of shares allocated to TWU is a percentage (4.8%) of the shares allocated to all unsecured creditors, and since the number of shares allocated to the unsecured creditors decrease as the stock price increases, we will not know the total number of shares allocated to TWU until after the market closes and American runs the share price through the allocation model. You will recall that the potential for fewer shares as the share price climbs is as a result of both old equity shareholders being able to buy shares allocated to the unsecured creditors as the price increases, and of share price escalation that could reach a point where the total value of fewer shares will match up with an imputed value the unsecured creditor claims. But whatever the number of shares issued to the unsecured creditors, and whatever the share price is at the close of the market today, the total number of shares issued to TWU will equal 4.8% of the shares issued to unsecured creditors.

Once we know the total number of shares issued to unsecured creditors and to TWU, we will provide to the membership a statement showing both numbers. We will also provide a summary of the distributions at each distribution point beginning with day 1 and concluding with day 120; and we will explain again how the allocations of the TWU shares was accomplished. A calculator will be provided to members on their Local websites that will allow each member, using the information we had for him/her that was provided in the notices sent to everyone last summer, to plug the relevant numbers into the calculator, which will then calculate the number of shares that correspond to these numbers. This can then be compared with the number of shares received—though it should be noted that minor differences may exist due to limitations in exactness imposed by the nature of creating a calculator to be available to all. Each member must also remember that the total number of shares received will be after tax withholding, and thus will vary by state and city and by your personal circumstances.

Although the share price will be known Monday night, and calculation of allocations will begin then, members will not be able to see the shares and sell or transfer them until Thursday. According to American it is a two-day process to distribute shares after the share price is known at close of the market; and the bankruptcy plan provides for actual distribution as soon as practicable after the scheduled dates and that all unsecured creditors are to receive their shares on the same date. Since day 120 is a Tuesday, the calculations will start at close of the market on Monday and will be completed with shares issued on Thursday morning-- for all unsecured creditors. So members will not be able to see the number of shares issued to them on Tuesday. On day 1, shares could be seen but not sold or transferred, on that day. We were told that this was because day 1 was a Monday, the share price used was the price at close of business on the preceding Friday, and the weekend was used to do the calculations. Since day 120 is a weekday the two day period for calculations of shares distributed will not be completed on day 120. The TWU calculator will be available on Thursday, when the distributed equity will be able both to be seen and to be disposed of by members.

C: IAC
ATD Staff
S. Saly
GD:kla opeiu 153

 

[NYer]

Let's go back a bit.....Before the first distribution on 12/9/13, it was already determined that 5% will be set aside for grievances......Then in early 2014, the retirees filed a suit claiming equity and another 5% was put aside......Now another 4% is set aside for fees and such.....It is still 14%........
Now, the million dollar questions are:      Was the first 5% taken from the first distribution?  
                                                                 Was the second 5% taken from the third distribution?
                                                                 Will only 4% b taken from the final distribution?
                                                                 OR WILL THE 14% BE TAKEN FROM THE FINAL DISTRIBUTION?
 
Again....THIS IS WHY STOCK AS A FORM OF COMPENSATION IS NOT WORTH IT.....Especially when you have the amount piece mealed out to you and then you add in the TWU deciding how much each member gets...

Equity is given out in Stock, not money. It is part of the bankruptcy process so there is nothing that can be done as ALL creditors are given their recovery in the same from.

The original 5% was supposed to be taken from the total which meant a cut from each distribution. According to court documents the other 5% plus 4% were to be taken from the final distribution.

 

[NYer]

My guess. Around 50 shares. The Q & A from the union says expect 25% of your day one distribution. As for the 14% "held" aside, I expect to see nothing.
Of course when it comes to money, the company, and this union, I'm a glass half empty kind of guy.

Well then, I guess you'd be happy to know that the 14% is being held in a separate trust fund and a maximum of 4% is for fees and expenses, while 10% is exclusively for the plaintiffs in the event they win their case. That is ordered by the Court. (unless you believe they're in on the "scam")

 

[AANOTOK]

I must admit NYer, you are one busy guy/gal and very persistent. B)