Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

Clear,

Something for you to ponder....

You hate USAPA and probably are not paying dues, along with several other west pilots.

Just before USAPA was voted in, many East pilots hated ALPA and were not paying dues to that scumbag outfit.

The Nic is an ALPA generated arbitration, which meant nothing to many East pilots, there was no allegience to ALPA. We had already been screwed so much by ALPA that we disowned them, in the same way that you disown USAPA.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

How is it that you can get every single fact wrong in one post?

Nicolau did not say his award was a lottery ticket.

Your legal representatives made promises. That legal bound you to those agreements.

How would anything be different today if we had agreed to fences 7 years ago or you steal a 7 year fence through force? You have had your fences it is time for that to stop. You guys said all you wanted were 7 years fences you got it. But now you want even more time. Never enough for you east pilots. Never live up to your deals. Make a deal break a deal that is your motto.

Could it be that you want a 7 years fence but would never agree to the Nicolau anyway? that you wanted 7 years fences then DOH? Gee let me think about that deal at Wye river. Umm NO!

The bill for 7 years is coming due.

Spinning again.....

 

[cleardirect]

Things changed alright. We had one hell of a lot a value. More than you or NIC said we had. Your smug attitude is telling. Thanks for demanding we not have parity 7 years ago. You are paid in full.

Here you are revising history.

The west marched with the east in support of pay parity.

Only after the east broke your word, picked up your ball, walked out of JCBA and demanded separate ops did the west stop supporting pay parity. The way we "stopped" it was the MEC chair told Parker that the west pilots would be pissed.

In the world of east pilots do you really think that the west pilots had that much influence over management? If so we have demanded the Nicolau for 5 years why did the not give us that?

usapa has been the bargaining agent for 5 years. Why has usapa not been able to get pay parity? The west has no voice.

Point the finger of blame for not getting pay parity at the true failure. Your ALPA MEC for not negotiating it during the T/A. Point the finger at usapa for not getting it after 5 years.

Now with the MOU and equal pay Parker can't whipsaw the C scale pilots anymore. Let's just see where some new flying goes now that both sides have equal cost. You may want to give that pay parity back.

 

[mrbreeze]

For doh nogo,

I am off to bed....promise I won't be back, so tell your lies.....I won't even peek.
breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

The west marched with the east in support of pay parity.

Sorry doh nogo, one last comment....

Clear, show me when and where the East has ever had any support from the West. All I have seen is bitterness from day one. Your statement is total BS! Marched with the East, may ass!

breeze

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Let's just see where some new flying goes now that both sides have equal cost. You may want to give that pay parity back.

That "new flying" might (might) be leaving PHL and CLT. But it for sure will not be relocating to PHX. DFW and JFK seem likely candidates. I will enjoy my Group II rates for the rest of my career, and never worry about desert sandstorms or heat waves. Flying the long Pepsi can for over 200K a year will suit me just fine.

I am so very happy both sides have equal costs. The intelligent and wise APA pilots realized early on, no matter what their differences (or goals)in relation to U pilots and seniority, fences, and restrictions…..that lower paid pilots doing the same work was a bad thing. Learn from that logic.

Greeter

 

[cleardirect]

..

Maybe you should have a talk with the FAA in PIT about the status of certificates...U and AWA. Something is amiss.

Maybe you should have a talk with the NMB about what "single carrier status" really means, absent a combined seniority list. Hint, it has nothing to do with operations and everything to do with representation.

We only have one scab on our property. And I am not in that group. In fact, you can call UAL and ask them about my participation in one of the last real airline work actions in the last 29 years. But I guess they will have no record of any "walmartgreeter."

Greeter

Are you under the impression that the AWA certificate is being used? Who is the POI for that certificate? PHX is not.

Now on to your misunderstanding of the NMB.
It is the carrier that is determined to be combined. Not the representation. Completely wrong and 180 degrees from correct. The NMB has to determine that both union work for a single carrier BEFORE a representation election is held. Come on your guys are supposed to be the experienced know everything pilots.

http://www.unitedafa.org/news/merger/vote/nmb/default.aspx

Investigation of Single Carrier Status

To make that determination the NMB will examine a number of factors, such as whether the carriers have:

• integrated labor and personnel operations;
• published combined schedules or routes;
• standardized uniforms;
• integrated essential operations like scheduling or dispatching;
• combined management,
  corporate officers and board of directors;
• combined workforce or
• have common ownership.

 

[cleardirect]

Sorry doh nogo, one last comment....

Clear, show me when and where the East has ever had any support from the West. All I have seen is bitterness from day one. Your statement is total BS! Marched with the East, may ass!

breeze

I believe it was called coast to coast.

Look it up.

We were unified right up to the point the east walked away from your agreements and demanded separate ops.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Are you under the impression that the AWA certificate is being used? Who is the POI for that certificate? PHX is not.

Now on to your misunderstanding of the NMB.
It is the carrier that is determined to be combined. Not the representation. Completely wrong and 180 degrees from correct. The NMB has to determine that both union work for a single carrier BEFORE a representation election is held. Come on your guys are supposed to be the experienced know everything pilots.

http://www.unitedafa.org/news/merger/vote/nmb/default.aspx

Investigation of Single Carrier Status

To make that determination the NMB will examine a number of factors, such as whether the carriers have:

• integrated labor and personnel operations;
• published combined schedules or routes;
• standardized uniforms;
• integrated essential operations like scheduling or dispatching;
• combined management,
  corporate officers and board of directors;
• combined workforce or
• have common ownership.

I am caught up on the first entry: •integrated labor and personnel operations;

"Combined workforce" also gives me pause.

But then again, what weight do the pilot and flight attendant groups have in an airline operation? Probably trivial.

Single carrier status is what allows the labor groups to merge. That status has been granted in anticipation of said event. The POI has gone out on a limb extending similar status to the operation. They have just expelled a great sigh of relief as to recent events. Ask one of them..they are all soon moving to DFW. Not PHX.


Greeter

 

[Claxon]

I believe it was called coast to coast.

Look it up.

We were unified right up to the point the east walked away from your agreements and demanded separate ops.

Conditions and restrictions.

AMR pilots;

"We want what we brought to the merger."

US Airways East pilots;

"We want what we brought to the merger."

Former america west pilots;

"We want what you brought to the merger." Or Marty and Andy will sue you.

 

[Claxon]

I believe it was called coast to coast.

Look it up.

We were unified right up to the point the east walked away from your agreements and demanded separate ops.

MEC Chairman’s Message

February 8, 2008

This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a chairman’s message to the pilots for Friday, February 08, 2008.

After nine days of talks between the US Airways and America West Steering Committees, the America West contingent has chosen to stand down talks. At this time they are not prepared to address seniority implementation issues, specifically, mitigating the damages caused by the Nicolau Award.

Recall that we met to determine if we had enough common ground between us on important issues to come up with a comprehensive counterproposal for both MECs to review. As we told you, this counterproposal would have to adequately address not only all open JNC issues, but more importantly for the AAA pilots, pay parity and seniority protection. We came to the neutral site at Wye River, MD with these goals in mind, and within these goals we developed certain thresholds needing to be achieved for the benefit of the US Airways pilots. Despite what you may have heard or read, none of that changed during the meeting.

While we respect what the AWA pilots were there to accomplish, the US Airways MEC’s position remains the same and our MEC’s Steering Committee members did not compromise that position. We never wavered from our goal of protecting you from the Nicolau Award, and our threshold for meeting those goals never changed.
I’ll be calling the MEC into session for a special meeting next week. While there is no comprehensive counterproposal to bring back to the MEC, they'll receive a briefing on the process, and I plan to add two other items to the agenda: developing a distribution methodology for 2007 Profit Sharing and Stock Options and to review an agreement extending the timeframe for filing disputes concerning flow-through issues.

The MEC will now review our options. Keep in mind that the odds of any plan we develop succeeding are greatly diminished by members of this MEC continuing to cower behind their fear of failure and seeking to sabotage any process we elect to pursue. You can see that all of the noise and accusations coming out of PHL Council 41 about the work of our Steering Committee was unfounded and disingenuous. When it came time to meet directly with our AWA counterparts, we did exactly what we said we would, AAA pilots working with AWA pilots trying to mitigate the damages of the Nicolau Award.

Excuses and alibis will not replace leadership. We made a promise, and we kept it. There was no cramdown, no end-run deal, no deal chasing and no back room conspiracies. I hope you did not fall for these contrived ideas spread in order to try and scare you. The majority of this MEC and your MEC officers are not afraid of failure. We said we were going to look under every stone to find solutions and we meant it. My only fear is that some of our MEC fear the search may actually produce something that would require
them to lead rather than criticize. I can tell you that the majority of your MEC was willing to continue the search. Although this process has not worked so far, we are no worse off for engaging in the exercise.

You would have been extremely proud of our team of pilots who met at the Wye River Conference Center. These are men of honor and integrity and they are most importantly, men of their word. Their commitment to the process and to you was rock solid. Threats and intimidation attempts by some minority disenchanted MEC members and paper tigers did not sway these men of honor from pursuing the direction that the majority of the MEC had set. They did their best trying to reach a solution to the Nicolau Award. At this time the AWA pilots are unwilling to address our seniority concerns. Again, we are no worse off for having engaged in this process. We remain right where we started and that is in separate operations with the West.
I thank you for your patience during the past few weeks. I know it’s been difficult. There will be other options at our disposal after the MEC gets the chance to strategize internally next week. While conditions and opportunities may change, the goal has not and our threshold for success has not. Our mission remains the same, to protect you from the damages caused by the Nicolau Award.

 

[Claxon]

I believe it was called coast to coast.

Look it up.

We were unified right up to the point the east walked away from your agreements and demanded separate ops.

http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/48744182_us-airways-management-and-america-west-pilots-open

 

[Claxon]

I believe it was called coast to coast.

Look it up.

We were unified right up to the point the east walked away from your agreements and demanded separate ops.

http://profileengine.com/groups/profile/422884230/america-west-screw-you-us-air

 

[Claxon]

Cleardirect. Known for telling Whoppers and total lies. Then slithers away when caught.

 

[traderjake]

Known for telling Whoppers and total lies. Then slithers away when caught.

Tell us again, where do you work and what you do?