Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Bass Ackwards, dude. In order to be implemented, the pilots of former AWA and US must ratify a joint contract with LCC.
It's all in the T/A, which will disappear on the 'effective date', thus nullifying any claim to the Nic, and defining a new process to an integrated senioriy list: Negotiate with 2 lists from LCC for integration into AA's list. Failing that, M/B arbitration will be implemented using the same 3 lists.
The MOU specifically states that neither the MOU, MTA, or JCBA will change the status quo of 2 separate lists at LCC and that ONLY the process defined in the MOU will be utilized to form the new integrated seniority list between east, west, and AA.
It's all right there in black and white. This is the new reality.
Cheers.

If the MOU is so black and white why was the union telling the pilots that the MOU is neutral on seniority?

Perhaps what the MOU stated about changing the two list would be the the east list will not be reordered to a true DOH list. Or that the east list will not be reordered to include the third list new hires as being senior to west pilots.

But what about the small problem for the east pilots of usapa being voided, going away, a nullity. We will be there to argue against the Nicolau or for DOH?

BTW what your theory of what will happen can't.

Failing that, M/B arbitration will be implemented using the same 3 lists.

usapa is bound by it's C&BL to present a DOH list not two lists since usapa is supposed to represent ALL US Airways pilots. How do you think that is going to go over with the arbitrators? Think they are just going to ignore the last 8 years of this merger and reset the clock?

 

[nic4us]

Bass Ackwards, dude. In order to be implemented, the pilots of former AWA and US must ratify a joint contract with LCC.
It's all in the T/A, which will disappear on the 'effective date', thus nullifying any claim to the Nic, and defining a new process to an integrated senioriy list: Negotiate with 2 lists from LCC for integration into AA's list. Failing that, M/B arbitration will be implemented using the same 3 lists.
The MOU specifically states that neither the MOU, MTA, or JCBA will change the status quo of 2 separate lists at LCC and that ONLY the process defined in the MOU will be utilized to form the new integrated seniority list between east, west, and AA.
It's all right there in black and white. This is the new reality.
Cheers.

The MOU does not say 2 lists....man you guys cannot even read....this is like the third time...the MOU says "lists in effect"...not 2 lists. The Nic is in effect.

Your premise is that the Nic required ratification. An absurd idea, not found in the TA.

A JCBA required ratification. It also required using the Nic. But, the failure to ratify a JCBA is not grounds to nullify the Nic, only proves uscaba is an incompetent fake union.

 

[cleardirect]

Dude, we don't switch companies until the 'effective date'. THEN, every past agreement goes poof.
Read it, you'll see.

Pay attention. When you went from AAA to LCC you switched companies. Did LOA 93 go away?

 

[PullUp]

If the MOU is so black and white why was the union telling the pilots that the MOU is neutral on seniority?

Perhaps what the MOU stated about changing the two list would be the the east list will not be reordered to a true DOH list. Or that the east list will not be reordered to include the third list new hires as being senior to west pilots.

But what about the small problem for the east pilots of usapa being voided, going away, a nullity. We will be there to argue against the Nicolau or for DOH?

BTW what your theory of what will happen can't.

usapa is bound by it's C&BL to present a DOH list not two lists since usapa is supposed to represent ALL US Airways pilots. How do you think that is going to go over with the arbitrators? Think they are just going to ignore the last 8 years of this merger and reset the clock?

The MOU provides for USAPA's NAC to remain until the SLI process is finished.
This also was discussed at the road show.
Remember that the road show was designed to sell the MOU...
Cheers.

 

[PullUp]

The MOU does not say 2 lists....man you guys cannot even read....this is like the third time...the MOU says "lists in effect"...not 2 lists. The Nic is in effect.

Your premise is that the Nic required ratification. An absurd idea, not found in the TA.

A JCBA required ratification. It also required using the Nic. But, the failure to ratify a JCBA is not grounds to nullify the Nic, only proves uscaba is an incompetent fake union.

The Nic is NOT in effect. Never has been. There are two lists at LCC (just like the MOU states). Been that way since the 'merger'.
For the Nic to be implemented (put in use), a joint contract must have been ratified (a problem specifically addressed by Mr. Kirby) between USAPA and LCC.
Also hasn't happened. Now, it will never happen.
Without a contract containing the Nic, it disappears just like all the other contracts, LOAs, and grievances (AND the TA) prior to the 'effective date'.
Cheers.

 

[PullUp]

Pay attention. When you went from AAA to LCC you switched companies. Did LOA 93 go away?

Read this out loud so I can see your lips move:
Upon the effective date all prior agreements are null and void.
LOA93 will go away. The west contract, poof. The current T/A - gone.
The ONLY agreement you will have is the AA contract and the MOU (called the MTA). This will be your working agreement until a new JCBA.
Read the MOU. Be educated, not emotional.
You can close your mouth now, you are starting to drool.
disgusting.

 

[prechilill]

Pay attention. When you went from AAA to LCC you switched companies. Did LOA 93 go away?

Exactly.
Also, when they went from ALPA to USAPA, did LOA 93 go away?

 

[PullUp]

Exactly.
Also, when they went from ALPA to USAPA, did LOA 93 go away?

Irrelevant argument. See above.

 

[PullUp]

Listen up westies:
When YOU ratified the MOU, you agreed to abandon your current working agreements.
You also agreed to abide by the AA contract at the effective date.
Is this so hard to understand?
Everything in the past, stays in the past. The new future is AA+MOU=MTA, then a new J/C.
All the previous agreements are gone.
You voted for it, and it passed with flying colors.
Can't go back and rewrite the rules now, it's done.
Cheers.

 

[snapthis]

If the MOU is so black and white why was the union telling the pilots that the MOU is neutral on seniority?

Perhaps what the MOU stated about changing the two list would be the the east list will not be reordered to a true DOH list. Or that the east list will not be reordered to include the third list new hires as being senior to west pilots.

But what about the small problem for the east pilots of usapa being voided, going away, a nullity. We will be there to argue against the Nicolau or for DOH?

BTW what your theory of what will happen can't.


usapa is bound by it's C&BL to present a DOH list not two lists since usapa is supposed to represent ALL US Airways pilots. How do you think that is going to go over with the arbitrators? Think they are just going to ignore the last 8 years of this merger and reset the clock?

They came into town avoided any and all questions related to seniority. Bozo, USAPA attorney put on the hotseat, snipes he made his arguments in Judge Silver's courtroom.

They think they are so smart, pulling the wool over our eyes. We voted for the MOU with legal advice from our counsel rather than their union's attorney.

Marty is going to make him the clown he appears to be in person. You'd think the guy could afford a hairbrush. What a pathetic mess.

 

[Pi brat]

Trader too?

Are you dense? I told you that I've flown with trader.

 

[Pi brat]

I have my thoughts. But I am in a good mood today. Why don't you expound on your conspiracy theories of how or why the company, the courts and west is wrong while usapa has it all perfectly correct.


I could use a good chuckle. The fertile and demented mind of east pilots always fascinates me.

Do you have a full copy yet? usapa being transparent in their governance?

Not a conspiracy theory at all, I rarely believe in those. Where did I say that? Assuming again.

Go ahead, I asked you first. Step up and actually answer me for once. You usually tuck your tail and run from my questions.

 

[dca319]

Irrelevant argument. See above.

LoA 93 expires. So much for that argument. Didn't you say that went poof as well way back when?

 

[Pi brat]

The MOU does not say 2 lists....man you guys cannot even read....this is like the third time...the MOU says "lists in effect"...not 2 lists. The Nic is in effect.

On what friggin' planet is the Nic in effect? If it is indeed in effect, why the plural on the list word? I don't see a single p number on the last EAST bid. Man, you are getting farther and farther out there.

 

[Pi brat]

Earlier I said that I rarely believed in conspiracy theories. Now I do. After reading this board since Feb 8th I am convinced that the company and USAPA conspired to deliver two different MOUs to east and west pilots to review and vote on! There is no way we are all reading the same thing.