Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767one]

I hear you Bob. How's retirement treating you? You've always been a class act.

Best to you as well.

Thanks for the kind words. Retirement is treating me well. I now have time to work on the house, barn, tractors, and when spring comes, the garden. I'm also able to visit my Dad almost every day. I thought after all these years I would have airplane withdrawal.....not so! I have had a couple of job offers which I declined for personal/family reasons. The only thing I miss about the job is the great people that I worked with for many years.

All the best,

Bob

 

[snapthis]

Thanks for the kind words. Retirement is treating me well. I now have time to work on the house, barn, tractors, and when spring comes, the garden. I'm also able to visit my Dad almost every day. I thought after all these years I would have airplane withdrawal.....not so! I have had a couple of job offers which I declined for personal/family reasons. The only thing I miss about the job is the great people that I worked with for many years.

All the best,

Bob

I'm glad you made the transition to retirement with ease and not looking back. I have a little over 10 years left. You have the right idea, get away from the city. All the best to your father too. You are lucky to have him and I'm sure you make his day when he sees you come in the door.

Come back and visit us once in a while. It's nice to get out of the boxing ring.

Take care.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Thanks for the kind words. Retirement is treating me well. I now have time to work on the house, barn, tractors, and when spring comes, the garden. I'm also able to visit my Dad almost every day. I thought after all these years I would have airplane withdrawal.....not so! I have had a couple of job offers which I declined for personal/family reasons. The only thing I miss about the job is the great people that I worked with for many years.

All the best,

Bob

Hi Bob,

It's great to hear that you are enjoying your retirement, as is intended! We miss you, too, as much as you miss us!

Many Blessings!
NYCBD
1252 days...but who's counting?

 

[prechilill]

That's it? I feel like that guy that won the first Regis millionaire show over a decade ago..he knew the answer the second it was asked.This last gasp by Harper is embarrassing, especially the references to Wake. Really? Citing an event that the law sees as having never even happened?Coming up on 6 years of no NIC. Nothing has changed. A guy with 17 years of unbroken service will never go behind a new hire. That simple.Greeter

You are absolutely correct: nothing for you to be concerned with, just move along. Nothing to see here...
Lol

 

[cactusboy53]

That's it? I feel like that guy that won the first Regis millionaire show over a decade ago..he knew the answer the second it was asked.This last gasp by Harper is embarrassing, especially the references to Wake. Really? Citing an event that the law sees as having never even happened?Coming up on 6 years of no NIC. Nothing has changed. A guy with 17 years of unbroken service will never go behind a new hire. That simple.Greeter

A little clarification please. If Odell (new AWA pilot) was the last pilot on the combined list (of pilots gainfully employed at the time of the merger) and Colello (furloughed at the time of the merger) was then next....How could he have 17 years of unbroken service (page 84 of 230 on the Nicolau Seniority list)?

Now pilot Monda was placed in front of Odell, as he and Odell were the last two gainfully employed pilots at the time of the snapshot.

 

[nevergiveup]

February 19, 2013

Leonidas Update

On February 8th, the pilots of US Airways voted in favor of the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) negotiated by USAPA, US Airways, the APA and American Airlines. The MOU places all US Airways pilots under a single contract; there is no legitimate union purpose to use any other seniority scheme than the Nicolau Award. West pilots expect, and will require, the company and USAPA to honor the final and binding arbitration that resulted in the Nicolau Award.

"We conclude that this case presents contingencies that could prevent effectuation of USAPA's proposal and the accompanying injury......Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA's seniority proposal...." [Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, pg. 9]

"Although we do not hold that a DFR claim based on a union's promotion of a policy is never ripe until that policy is effectuated......" [Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, pg. 12]

Negotiations addressing the contingencies that can affect seniority are complete. Retrospective pay began February 8th, and the rest of the MOU provisions will be imposed on all parties as we work toward a JCBA with APA.

The MOU was written to be neutral on the Nicolau Award. The process leading to the Nicolau Award was dictated by a separate section of the prior Bankruptcy Court-ordered Transition Agreement and was not subject to independent ratification apart from the other 29 sections of a new contract. Ratification of an entirely new contract, replacing both existing East and West contracts, took place in the form of the MOU passage.

The ratification vote of the MOU eviscerates USAPA's primary argument for a Legitimate Union Purpose, as USAPA has always maintained that the Nicolau Award itself created an impasse to obtaining a joint contract:

"In effect, USAPA claims that the East Pilots hold such strong objections to the Nicolau Award that they always will vote as a bloc against any new CBA with it, enjoying the self-denial of a single CBA with improved wages and working conditions into perpetuity. Even if this unbelievable story is believed, it only means that the East Pilots have the power of self-inflicted harm. It does not mean that the union's duty of fair representation falls victim to self-hostagetaking.

Whether considered as a matter of fact or law, the asserted impasse does not absolve USAPA from liability." [Judge Wake, Doc. 593 pg. 29]

For years, our position has been that the "impasse" referred to by USAPA was one of its own making. Judge Wake agreed with us and referred to it in his "Statement of Facts" (doc 593) as "self-hostagetaking" and calling USAPA's claim that the East would vote "against any new CBA..... with improved wages and working conditions into perpetuity" an "unbelievable story".

The MOU vote has proven us (and Judge Wake) right: Given enough money there never was an impasse. However, pretending there was an impasse gave both USAPA and US Airways what they wanted. USAPA kept separate operations and avoided the Nicolau and management used the whipsaw to keep our wages the lowest in the industry (even lower with every hour of flying management could transfer East)!

On Monday, February 18, 2013, the attorneys for the West Pilots took the first step, post-merger announcement, by placing all parties on notice that we are prepared to take appropriate legal action to protect our right to the Nicolau Award. You may read the letter here.

Much damage has been done to US Airways pilots through USAPA's refusal to negotiate a JCBA with improved pay and benefits prior to a merger with American Airlines. So much so that East pilots will enjoy breathtaking raises and benefit improvements by overwhelmingly ratifying the contract of a bankrupt carrier after it failed to achieve anything (except delay) while "representing" pilots at one of the industry's most profitable airlines over the last five years.

A unified front is required to secure the best possible future for US Airways pilots at the New American Airlines, but the West pilots will not forfeit our seniority rights to create that facade. Instead, we will require USAPA, US Airways, the APA and the New American Airlines to honor the clear-cut obligations to which they succeeded, (or will succeed). This means nothing less than the implementation of the Nicolau Award as the single list for the US Airways side of the AA/US integration equation. Nothing less will suffice.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

Well the MOU was passed and are we all operating under a single contract? Not even close. As voted on so overwhelmingly by the west, it is only the first step in the process leading to a JCBA, which may be many months away. I think Leo pulled a fast one over the west.

 

[doh nogo]

You have been online all night, then wait till a guy signs off for the night, then try to hammer him....weak dick, junior FO!

Just another example of how the West is out to screw the East pilots.....we have to watch our 6s 24/7......they are always wanting to screw us.
breeze

Typical narcissistic, self-important, east pilot who can't stand letting anyone else have the last word.

Do you have any idea what an id!ot you look like? You SAY you're signing off at 1030, but after midnight you're still around, post after post after post. Just so you can have the last word. And you point the finger at others??? Not to mention how childish you sound to reprimand a person who DARES post a rebuttal after you leave the room... on a public forum that runs 24 hours a day. Then you reference "junior FO" as if your name on a list somehow makes you more important than others. WOW! You really DO have an extremely over-inflated ego, don't you?

Well here's a news flash for you... You can have the last word all you want on this forum if it helps you sleep at night. The west will have the last LEGAL word when the SLI is finally complete. You can mark my words and then tell me how wrong I am then. OK sunshine?

 

[cleardirect]

When are you morons ever going to figure out that the contract that demands the NIC, i.e. the US/AW TA, is specifically superseded by the new TA. Any contract can be renegotiated at any time in any way through mutual agreement by the parties involved, and that is what is happening here. The US/AW TA has been renegotiated to die, along with your precious lottery ticket, at the moment the new TA is signed.

Of course, you can file a lawsuit. Big deal. Give it your best shot. Ho hum. Yawn.

We are finally making progress. At least now you are admitting that the T/A demanded and required the Nicolau. Only took you 8 years to figure that out. Thanks for wasting 5 years of everyone's time by voting for usapa when you now admit that the Nicoau is the seniority list.

So now that you admit the Nicolau is the list why do you think that your mis-reading of the T/A is correct?

Any contract can be renegotiated at any time in any way through mutual agreement by the parties involved,

Yes , yes we have heard it before many time. What you always leave out is the mutual part. ALL parties have to agree. Other than usapa on one has agreed to the usapa scheme of violating an arbitration. We have now added additional parties that are not going to agree to expose themselves to liability.

I think you should read the merger committee, the officers and the NAC updates. They said the MOU was negotiated as neutral on seniority not what you are asserting that it kills the Nicolau. Once again mis-understanding or intentionally ignorant of reality. It is going to be a tough sell to the court if usapa now tries and defend against liability by saying that the west should have knoewn the MOU killed the Nicolau when there is written evidence saying the exact opposite.

 

[doh nogo]

Anyone have the letter referenced in that email?

I believe this is the letter you are asking about.

http://leonidas.cact..._and_Siegel.pdf

It puts them on notice. Should be interesting to hear their reply.

It would also be interesting if USAPA sends a letter of their own, clearly stating their position. If they are so supremely confident in their DOH quest, and that the NIC is null and void, wouldn't it behoove them to rebut and submit their intentions in writing and for the record? If not, I think their silence would be VERY telling to the strength (weakness) of their convictions.

I'm sure the eastholes here will be quick to post USAPA's letter to the attorneys if one ever materializes, right?

 

[cleardirect]

Well, since the worstholes are flying 20% of those traditionally east routes, PHX will bear the brunt of the flying cuts in CLT, if indeed there are any.

Enjoy

How is that going to happen?

The MOU has nim block hours and a no furlough clause. The west is also at min hours now. The east has a little padding so there is room to cut out east.

But that is a short term issue. The APA is going to act like a real union and get to a contract very quickly instead of intentionally delaying integration. Once combined the company can move flying where ever they want. CLT may grow which only means that west and APA pilots will have the opportunity to bid CLT or PHL. That may cause you to hang out on reserve a little longer but that is what happens with a merger. You may end up commuting to JFK to hold you seat who knows. I hear crash pads are pretty expensive there though.

Now a thinking man would be hoping that PHX grows by a lot. Otherwise the PHX pilots will have to use our proper seniority at another base out east somewhere because base fences are not going to happen.

 

[cleardirect]

I believe this is the letter you are asking about.

http://leonidas.cact..._and_Siegel.pdf

It puts them on notice. Should be interesting to hear their reply.

Let me guess at the usapa response. We ain't afraid of you. You are wrong because the union can do anything we want you can't stop us. So there.

 

[Pi brat]

February 19, 2013

Leonidas Update

The MOU places all US Airways pilots under a single contract;

Really? So when I go to work next time do I get crew meals, and the long rate rig, or did west pilots lose that? If this merger falls through like the US/UA merger, do we get the money?

Does it bother you guys that AOL could make a mistake like that? The MOU is not a JCBA. Now all of what they say may true after the POR and JCBA, I don't know, but it is not now. They aren't going to file another unripe lawsuit are they?

 

[Pi brat]

It ends with arbitration. Another big word you fail to understand.

I understand it perfectly. Some of you west brothers and sisters have a problem with it when it comes to deciding where "new" aircraft are flown and IOUs for them, grievances about west/3rd list seniority etc. Do you see the irony when they complain about the E190 IOUs(or 757, can't remember which one was an arbitration), or TA-9 grievance?

 

[Pi brat]

You certainly don't need anymore airplanes in CLT. It snows an inch and it falls apart. What an embarrassment.

You got that right. I'm sure some heads will roll over it. Of course, team Tempe is ultimately in charge and they can't even schedule the first bank in PHX. That is a daily embarrassment when the pax look out at all those airplanes waiting on a gate. Can you imagine the roll of the eyes from our customers that fly those flights regularly and hear the same old announcement?

 

[dca319]

Let me guess at the usapa response. We ain't afraid of you. You are wrong because the union can do anything we want you can't stop us. So there.

That letter wasn't even sent to USAPA. Looks like only APAs and the company's lawyer got it. USAPA was completely ignored.