Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[PullUp]

BOHICA

Get ready boys. The tax man comith again.

It would appear that $4 million was not enough money to put your hearts at ease about what happened to your pension. That the loss of your pension was not enough. $4 million more dollars was not enough. The PIC wants another $600,000 from you. After three years, a trial, depositions and $4 million you still don’t know what happened to your pension?

When are east pilots going to take responsibility of your actions and admit you were wrong?

What is your interest in this situation other than to stir up FUD?
BTW, 240 bucks per pilot isn't a lot to ask......how much are you sending AOL? I would say that the potential ROI on PIC money is greater than that spent on AOL, although both are spitting in the face of city hall - into the wind.
Going this far and stopping WOULD be a waste of money, though. I think, JUST LIKE AOL, that the PIC should take it through the process until all avenues have been exhausted.
I would like to see some assumptions on potential recoveries/recalculations of benefits and what a 'good' settlement offer from PBGC would look like.
Cheers.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I disagree. And will not go into it here other than a couple of observations.

The ENTIRE JCBA would have to go to arbitration for there to be no vote. Not going to happen.

Same with the SLI. APA may be foolish enough to go to arbitration on parts of the list integration, but they will NOT turn over the entire process to arbitration. Count on that.

Greeter

MOU pertinent parts:

5. US Airways, and its successors, if any, shall continue to recognize and treat with USAPA as the representative of the pilots employed by US Airways until another representative for the pilot craft or class is certified by the National Mediation Board (the "NMB"). Subject to the provisions of Paragraph 27, negotiations to convert this Memorandum and the MTA into the JCBA and any implementation or other interim agreement, if any, shall be conducted with USAPA and APA jointly, until such time as one union is certified by the NMB to be the collective bargaining representative of the combined pilot craft or class. At that time, the duly-certified representative shall have exclusive authority to negotiate on behalf of the pilots with respect to the JCBA. It is the Parties' intention that the JCBA shall replace any and all prior collective bargaining agreements for USAPA; however, for APA, the JCBA shall be an amendment to the MTA.


27. If and when the NMB makes a single-carrier finding, the organization certified to represent the pilots of the single carrier, the single carrier acknowledged by the NMB and the certified organization shall promptly engage or re-engage in negotiations to achieve a JCBA to be applicable to the carrier that will be the product of the Merger. In the event that such negotiations are not completed within 30 days of the NMB's certification, New American Airlines will offer final and binding interest arbitration under Section 7 of the RLA, and the organization will accept such proffer, to resolve once and for all the terms of the JCBA. The arbitration decision shall be issued no later than 60 days after the close of the 30-day negotiation period. A panel of three arbitrators led by Richard Bloch shall serve as the arbitrators for this process. If Arbitrator Bloch declines to serve in this capacity or is unable to resolve the parties' dispute, the parties shall select another arbitrator. The arbitrator's jurisdiction and award will be limited to fashioning provisions which are consistent with the terms of the MTA, including provisions which implement the terms of the MTA or facilitate the integration of pilots under the terms of the MTA. The arbitrator's award specifically shall adhere to the economic terms of the MTA and shall not change the MTA's Scope terms (Paragraph 25 of this Memorandum) or the modifications generated through the process set forth in Paragraph 24 of this Memorandum.

Since you are obviously in the know, show me where in the MOU it says that.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Was in chief pilots office the other day. Parker has a new catch phrase:

"ADAPT AND GO". He borrowed the philosophy from Delta CEO.

 

[PullUp]

Was in chief pilots office the other day. Parker has a new catch phrase:

"ADAPT AND GO". He borrowed the philosophy from Delta CEO.

Oh no, not another philosophy!
How much will this one cost us?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Oh no, not another philosophy!
How much will this one cost us?

As usual.....a lot.

 

[A320 Driver]

BTW, 240 bucks per pilot isn't a lot to ask......

After the additional .5% the BPR just scalped us for? NO. NO MORE. Driver...

 

[luvthe9]

After the additional .5% the BPR just scalped us for? NO. NO MORE. Driver...

Hey, do us all a favor and quit if you don't like it. I'm sure ALPO would love to have you back. You just got a big raise "parity in 3 years".

 

[Claxon]

Sheldon,

I look forward to being a member of APA, however, it will be AFTER your greed is squared away.

breeze

Sheldon and Horneryet are trying to save some face after all the BS they have fed on the board. The JCBA charade is their latest ploy. That and the LUP catchphrase. Ask them for the amenable date on their fantasy JCBA. This will be interesting.
They brought this up when they figured the MOU killed the Nicolau Award. OOOPS.......

 

[traderjake]

BTW, 240 bucks per pilot isn't a lot to ask......

We'd have better odds of seeing some return on investment if we bought lottery tickets.

 

[cleardirect]

What is your interest in this situation other than to stir up FUD?
BTW, 240 bucks per pilot isn't a lot to ask......how much are you sending AOL? I would say that the potential ROI on PIC money is greater than that spent on AOL, although both are spitting in the face of city hall - into the wind.
Going this far and stopping WOULD be a waste of money, though. I think, JUST LIKE AOL, that the PIC should take it through the process until all avenues have been exhausted.
I would like to see some assumptions on potential recoveries/recalculations of benefits and what a 'good' settlement offer from PBGC would look like.
Cheers.

RTB!!!

Radical true believer.

My point is that you are willing to follow any crazy idea that you think will get you what you want. Despite the facts in front of you. LOA 93, RICO, illegal job action, american BK case, MDA and DOH. You were told that usapa was right about all of these issue and it turns out they were wrong on all counts. Now you are willing to continue down the same path following the same people that got you lost in the first placed.

The ROI is zero. Three years of assessments $1620 plus about $240, $1860 for a return of ZERO. I sure hope you do better than that in your other investments.

At least you are asking to see what the committee might get. My guess is that they will tell you they can't tell you or that they have the POTENTIAL to recover millions of dollars. My suggestion would be to read the PBGC post trial brief and statement of facts. They explain what the ROI would be and why you would get nothing. Inform yourself with all the facts not just what usapa chooses to tell you.

Remember the PIC had this smoking gun report they were going to show all the pilots. Except they kept it under cover for months. When they finally did release it, it was nothing and the PBGC shredded it in court. They really did kick the experts butt on the stand. Read the transcript.

If you read nothing else about the trial. Read the last days transcript and the judge asking for statements of fact. His comment is after all the filings, documents, discovery and three days of trial he could not see how or what the pilots hope to get.


I don't care about the pension thing, I don't care if you spent your money chasing smoke. What I do care about is the attitude of the east and the money it has cost all of us because you guys refuse to accept reality.

Face it. $4 million got you nothing and they want more. usapa cost this pilots hundreds of millions of dollars and you are going to end up with what we were going to get 6 years ago.

 

[Claxon]

RTB!!!

Radical true believer.

My point is that you are willing to follow any crazy idea that you think will get you what you want. Despite the facts in front of you. LOA 93, RICO, illegal job action, american BK case, MDA and DOH. You were told that usapa was right about all of these issue and it turns out they were wrong on all counts. Now you are willing to continue down the same path following the same people that got you lost in the first placed.

The ROI is zero. Three years of assessments $1620 plus about $240, $1860 for a return of ZERO. I sure hope you do better than that in your other investments.

At least you are asking to see what the committee might get. My guess is that they will tell you they can't tell you or that they have the POTENTIAL to recover millions of dollars. My suggestion would be to read the PBGC post trial brief and statement of facts. They explain what the ROI would be and why you would get nothing. Inform yourself with all the facts not just what usapa chooses to tell you.


I don't care about the pension thing, i don't care if you spent your money chasing smoke. What I do care about is the attitude of the east and the money it has cost all of us because you guys refuse to accept reality.

Face it. $4 million got you nothing and they want more. usapa cost this pilots hundreds of millions of dollars and you are going to end up with what we were going to get 6 years ago.

Sheldon is a control freak. His life revolves around a web board, stealing your seniority, and determining YOUR actions.

 

[cleardirect]

Sheldon is a control freak. His life revolves around a web board, stealing your seniority, and determining YOUR actions.

Why is a guy that does not even work for US Airways here as much or more then I am?

Hello kettle.

 

[Zone5]

We'd have better odds of seeing some return on investment if we bought lottery tickets.

Why don't you just not pay the assessment then? You seem to take umbrage to virtually everything USAPA does, so why bother staying a MIG? Save yourself some cash and the rest of us the "brick bats".


seajay

 

[luvthe9]

Why is a guy that does not even work for US Airways here as much or more then I am?

Hello kettle.

Who cares he's right, you and your little group of AFO's haver cost both sides alot of money, by the way it's DOH and you lose .

 

[Walmartgreeter]

OK. Show me where in the MOU it says that.

Thanks for the posts showing the MOU logic. I agree it is not clear.

I ask the question again to someone in the know, and I am still told YES, the SLI will be member ratified, unless of course the entire list and all conditions and restrictions went to arbitration. That scenario would be unthinkable, at least in my opinion.

But as to the JCBA, you are correct. If we do NOTHING, the items we have already agreed on in the MOU are already "ours" as well as the new Green book. Possibly only some items end up going to arbitration, and there is a situation where there would be no need for a vote by any entity.

But that does not change the logic in my original post, that if the West Class prevails the APA would be taking essentially two votes in one. One to approve our combined list (the NIC) and another to approve the big picture SLI. That is crazy. They cannot impose a list on East and West. We have to vote independently on that.

Greeter